DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[Amadeus Arkham]

Either way this is going to be the most good-looking version of Ratcather even if they intentionally try and downplay their attractiveness .

I know right?

[byrd156]

I know right?

I wonder how gross they are going to go with her design.

[Stromberg]

Well, just a cursory glance at Instagram, Black Canary is hashtagged 312,794 times... Zatanna almost 84,000 times and Hawkgirl 76,000 times but if you add Hawkwoman, that takes her all the way up to 79,000 times.

Not even sure how to quantify on the other sites, so on Twitter I decided to count the number of followers on the top five pages for each of the characters. Black Canary...11,485 and that's only the first five pages dedicated to Black Canary, not Laurel Lance/Black Canary from "Arrow"; Zatanna only had two pages...4,265...Hawkgirl only one page (no Hawkwoman page)...1,014

[Jim Kelly]

Another thing about Black Canary is that, like Wonder Woman, she's an original and not a spin-off (unless you count her as a spin-off of Johnny Thunder).

Zatanna and the Hawkwomen are spin-offs of male characters. You might argue that Zatanna has become more popular than Zatara, but he had his own series in ACTION COMICS and WORLD'S FINEST COMICS, from 1938 to 1951. Zatanna is one of my favourite characters, but she's one of those (like Deadman) that can never hold a series for very long--the people that love her, love her a lot, but they aren't enough in number to support her.

Even Harley Quinn, Huntress and Batgirl are all Batman spin-off characters. I think there's some value in having some female characters that are their own thing and don't owe anything to male opposites--even if they become bigger names in the end.

[Osiris-Rex]

That's basically the one and only reason anyone who doesn't read comics may know about Hawkgirl. But yeah, I wouldn't say she's #2 either. Not sure who really is #2 on the DC side, but whoever it is, it's a very distant #2.

What about people that watched season on of the TV show DC's Legends of Tomorrow?

As others have said it isn't exactly a reboot, and Suicide Squad didn't bomb (maybe critically, but not financially which is what matters). So no, if BoP bombs, no reboots, no more BoP films, not for a good 20 years minimum. Either this film is successful enough to spawn sequels that might more closely resemble the team you want to see on the big screen, or it bombs and that's the last time the team has a movie in our lifetimes. There are no likely "it bombs and we get a great reboot in a few years" scenarios.

Look how long it took for WB to even consider making another Supergirl movie. And who knows when there will be another Catwoman movie.

[Johnny]

What about people that watched season on of the TV show DC's Legends of Tomorrow?

What about them. Firestorm and Atom are part of that show too, are they supposed to be some of the most well-known DC characters too, like I'm supposed to believe Hawkgirl is just because she was part of one cartoon show from two decades ago or one season of a CW show that can barely do a million viewers every week.

[Elmo]

Lol a poll based on comic fans opinions, once again proving what I've been saying all along. That's like citing Newsrama or BleedingCool. To comic fans she's the number 2 female of the League, but we don't matter, the GA does and to them Hawkgirl is number 2 (thanks to the DCAU). Like i said, take a trip to social media (YT/IG/Twitter/FB...etc) and you'll see what I mean by Hawkgirl is up there with Green Lantern and Martian Manhunter in requests.

you're wrong. it's comic fans that mistakenly overplay the DCAU's influence. we need to stop acting like everyone's knowledge of the Justice League stems from that series. it's bogus. Hawkgirl is not more popular than Black Canary. there's way more to a character's popularity than being part of the lineup of some big cartoon. the DCAU obviously means a lot to you, as it does most comic fans, but we have to stop looking at it in this manner

[byrd156]

What about them. Firestorm and Atom are part of that show too, are they supposed to be some of the most well-known DC characters too, like I'm supposed to believe Hawkgirl is just because she was part of one cartoon show from two decades ago or one season of a CW show that can barely do a million viewers every week.

The DCAU versions are the definitive versions of the DC universe for a whole generation of people.

[Johnny]

The DCAU versions are the definitive versions of the DC universe for a whole generation of people.

A "whole generation" of casual viewers that could not give a rat's ass about these characters other than vaguely remembering seeing them on Saturday morning TV when they were kids? I grew up in the 90s and early 2000s too and we're not even the target audience anymore. The point stands that as much as I love the DCAU, the Justice League roster and the DC universe in general are not defined by a 20 year old cartoon show.

[byrd156]

A "whole generation" of casual viewers that could not give a rat's ass about these characters other than vaguely remembering seeing them on Saturday morning TV when they were kids? I grew up in the 90s and early 2000s too and we're not even the target audience anymore. The point stands that as much as I love the DCAU, the Justice League roster and the DC universe in general are not defined by a 20 year old cartoon show.

You may not believe it but most people that I know who aren't really into superheroes know that lineup. Hell earlier in the HiC Mystery thread a poster mentioned he only learned about Nemesis from the DCAU version who is just a background character in JLU. The DCAU was a pretty big thing made up of 6 tv shows, 6 movies (that are still being made and campaigned for), 2 web-series, hundreds of tie-in comics and 13 video games.

It was kinda a big deal and still is.

[Stromberg]

You may not believe it but most people that I know who aren't really into superheroes know that lineup. Hell earlier in the HiC Mystery thread a poster mentioned he only learned about Nemesis from the DCAU version who is just a background character in JLU. The DCAU was a pretty big thing made up of 6 tv shows, 6 movies (that are still being made and campaigned for), 2 web-series, hundreds of tie-in comics and 13 video games.

It was kinda a big deal and still is.

And in that case, other than the original Justice League cartoon, Black Canary had been as much a party of the animations as Hawkgirl.

[Johnny]

You may not believe it but most people that I know who aren't really into superheroes know that lineup. Hell earlier in the HiC Mystery thread a poster mentioned he only learned about Nemesis from the DCAU version who is just a background character in JLU. The DCAU was a pretty big thing made up of 6 tv shows, 6 movies (that are still being made and campaigned for), 2 web-series, hundreds of tie-in comics and 13 video games.

It was kinda a big deal and still is.

That's basically proving my point then. The supposed "generation" that you're referring to takes zero active interest in the DC characters and only casually remembers them from a cartoon show they saw as kids all those years ago. Super Friends was influential as well and if the DC universe was not defined by that, then why should it be defined by this.

[The Darknight Detective]

That's basically proving my point then. The supposed "generation" that you're referring to takes zero active interest in the DC characters and only casually remembers them from a cartoon show they saw as kids all those years ago. Super Friends was influential as well and if the DC universe was not defined by that, then why should it be defined by this.

Super Friends was much more iconic and seen by a greater percentage of kids, too.

[SiegePerilous02]

The DCAU versions are the definitive versions of the DC universe for a whole generation of people.

Which is very unfortunate in the cases of Superman and Wonder Woman.

[Agent Z]

Another thing about Black Canary is that, like Wonder Woman, she's an original and not a spin-off (unless you count her as a spin-off of Johnny Thunder).

Zatanna and the Hawkwomen are spin-offs of male characters. You might argue that Zatanna has become more popular than Zatara, but he had his own series in ACTION COMICS and WORLD'S FINEST COMICS, from 1938 to 1951. Zatanna is one of my favourite characters, but she's one of those (like Deadman) that can never hold a series for very long--the people that love her, love her a lot, but they aren't enough in number to support her.

Even Harley Quinn, Huntress and Batgirl are all Batman spin-off characters. I think there's some value in having some female characters that are their own thing and don't owe anything to male opposites--even if they become bigger names in the end.

Black Canary doesn't exactly have a stellar track record with holding her own series either. She didn't even get her own solo series until 2015. The people that WB/DC are trying to reach don't care if Harley, Zatanna, Huntress or Batgirl are spin offs. In Zatanna's case, she's the origin character as far as casuals are concerned. Most people only Zatara as a Zatanna satellite character.