DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[Ascended]

Hate to say it but Supes just doesn't have the potential for wide appeal. Regardless of who they get, I don't think it is gonna make much of a difference I don't think we will ever see a Superman film hit 1bn ever.

Pretty sure that's objectively false. Superman sells more merchandise than almost anyone. Bats, Spidey, and the Avengers as a collective group move more, and that's it. And all of them have the benefit of popular and successful live-action adaptations in the recent past to help them.

The fact that Superman sells as much as he does, even after decades of being mismanaged in comics and larger media, shows just how much people love him. Hell, we're basically born knowing who he is, and it seems to me that (for most people) the natural default is to love Superman and the concept of Superman. People turn out for his stuff.....it's only after everyone sees that the product is lackluster that they lose interest. It's like that quote from Nelson Mandela, “No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin, or his background, or his religion. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite.” No one is born hating Superman. They learn to hate Superman after seeing WB screw him up over and over again.

The LCS crowd might think Clark is out-dated and uncool. Everybody else is a different matter. Give people a decent film with the kind of Superman they expect to see, and it'll do just fine. If Aquaman and Captain Marvel can break a billion, Superman could shatter it easily.....if WB could only figure out the character and make a worthwhile movie with GA appeal.

[Holt]

This is literally the exact same logic that was used for the idea that superhero movies starring women or minorities wouldn't sell well, and then Wonder Woman and Black Panther utterly obliterated that notion. It turns out that using objectively bad movies like Catwoman, Elektra, Supergirl and Steel as your evidence only goes to demonstrate people don't like bad movies.

Every Superman movie that has not done as well as the studio expected or reached its potential has had something very identifiable as a problem. Superman Returns was absolutely boring and lacking in action (something even Bryan Singer owned up to in post-mortem interviews), and the Snyderverse, quality debates aside, presented a very extreme new take on the character that a lot of the audience had a hard time connecting to. It's not shocking that a Superman movie where everything is filmed in a drab filter, Superman annihilates a city and Pa Kent tells him he should've let a bus load of screaming children drown to death wasn't the big crowd pleaser the studio was expecting.

Put together a well-made, colorful and optimistic adventure where a more personable Superman overcomes tremendous odds to save the day and defeat the bad guy, and I guarantee you'll get at least Wonder Woman numbers.

[Jim Kelly]

Honestly, I hope that JOKER does well enough to justify DC doing a series of Elseworld type movies. As much as I'd like to see a straight ahead version of Superman, I think that some out of the box treatments, like the Calvin Ellis "Sunshine" Superman, would help change the record.

[The_Lurk]

This is literally the exact same logic that was used for the idea that superhero movies starring women or minorities wouldn't sell well, and then Wonder Woman and Black Panther utterly obliterated that notion. It turns out that using objectively bad movies like Catwoman, Elektra, Supergirl and Steel as your evidence only goes to demonstrate people don't like bad movies.

Every Superman movie that has not done as well as the studio expected or reached its potential has had something very identifiable as a problem. Superman Returns was absolutely boring and lacking in action (something even Bryan Singer owned up to in post-mortem interviews), and the Snyderverse, quality debates aside, presented a very extreme new take on the character that a lot of the audience had a hard time connecting to. It's not shocking that a Superman movie where everything is filmed in a drab filter, Superman annihilates a city and Pa Kent tells him he should've let a bus load of screaming children drown to death wasn't the big crowd pleaser the studio was expecting.

Put together a well-made, colorful and optimistic adventure where a more personable Superman overcomes tremendous odds to save the day and defeat the bad guy, and I guarantee you'll get at least Wonder Woman numbers.

... but what about the edginess? And re-branding and... okok, I'll stop :P

No, you are totally right. The big successes in recent time is when they do the characters justice.

And all this "General Audience does not care" talk... I call big time BS on that. Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Shazam nailed their CB charms and are generally praised. That Shazam did not broke the 500 mark is because it being squeezed between Marvels Cap. Marvel & Endgame.

DCs main continuity comics can be dark. At times they can be so dark that BvS looks like a happy feel well toddler movie. But they worked towards it. There was the actual colorful optimistic stuff coming before and coming after. To start right off the bat with grim dark is no wonder that what happened happened. Its just sad that WB apparently is incapable to get the right lessons.

[The_Lurk]

Hmm... Wonder Woman and Maxwell Lord in the same movie...

Will there be bets whose neck-snap will be more epic; WWs or Supes?

[Vordan]

I’m kinda hoping Diana won’t kill Lord this time around.

[Castling]

Honestly all the Superman actors after Reeve have all left something to be desired despite for the most part all looking more or less like how Superman looks like in the comic. So I’m all for going a little out of the box with the casting next time. And Jordan is a pretty solid actor from what I’ve seen. And he’s probably look great in the suit and cape, so I’m on board. That being said if we were to shift Superman’s ethnicity, I always figured going latino would make sense thematically.

Maybe it's the director. I feel like the only DC director to properly channel the spirit of the old Reeve Superman films has been Patty Jenkins in her Wonder Woman film. Give her Superman and let her recast everyone. Her name, alone, will bring both talent and audiences on board.

[Agent Z]

This is literally the exact same logic that was used for the idea that superhero movies starring women or minorities wouldn't sell well, and then Wonder Woman and Black Panther utterly obliterated that notion. It turns out that using objectively bad movies like Catwoman, Elektra, Supergirl and Steel as your evidence only goes to demonstrate people don't like bad movies.

Every Superman movie that has not done as well as the studio expected or reached its potential has had something very identifiable as a problem. Superman Returns was absolutely boring and lacking in action (something even Bryan Singer owned up to in post-mortem interviews), and the Snyderverse, quality debates aside, presented a very extreme new take on the character that a lot of the audience had a hard time connecting to. It's not shocking that a Superman movie where everything is filmed in a drab filter, Superman annihilates a city and Pa Kent tells him he should've let a bus load of screaming children drown to death wasn't the big crowd pleaser the studio was expecting.

Put together a well-made, colorful and optimistic adventure where a more personable Superman overcomes tremendous odds to save the day and defeat the bad guy, and I guarantee you'll get at least Wonder Woman numbers.

It is surprising how much the people who hate that film keep blatantly spouting false stuff about what actually happens in it.

[Agent Z]

I’m kinda hoping Diana won’t kill Lord this time around.

Why? It's not like Diana killing anyone is controversial save for a comic fans on a forum.

[Holt]

It is surprising how much the people who hate that film keep blatantly spouting false stuff about what actually happens in it.

I don't hate it, actually. All in all it's better than the follow-up, at the very least. But it's not rocket science why it didn't connect with people the way the studio was hoping and why they're trying something else now.

Maybe it's the director. I feel like the only DC director to properly channel the spirit of the old Reeve Superman films has been Patty Jenkins in her Wonder Woman film. Give her Superman and let her recast everyone. Her name, alone, will bring both talent and audiences on board.

I'd be up for it. She'd nail Superman.

[The Darknight Detective]

Maybe it's the director. I feel like the only DC director to properly channel the spirit of the old Reeve Superman films has been Patty Jenkins in her Wonder Woman film.

Very little, IMO. The Reeve films were closer to Batman '66 than Wonder Woman.

[Agent Z]

I don't hate it, actually. All in all it's better than the follow-up, at the very least. But it's not rocket science why it didn't connect with people the way the studio was hoping and why they're trying something else now.



I'd be up for it. She'd nail Superman.

Even ignoring whether or not the bolded is true, none of this makes the "Superman annihilates a city and Pa Kent tells him to let a bus full of kids drown" thing that gets bandied around any less of a b.s. claim. It honestly feels like people who say this are trolling half the time.

[Holt]

Even ignoring whether or not the bolded is true

There's really no debate at this point. It's obvious by now the studio was not satisfied with the reception to the early films. I'm not sure how anyone can deny that after everything that's happened since then.

none of this makes the "Superman annihilates a city and Pa Kent tells him to let a bus full of kids drown" thing that gets bandied around any less of a b.s. claim.

Whatever you say.

[Holt]

https://www.instagram.com/p/By-Dkcup65s/

Sounds like Michael Giacchino is involved with The Batman. He scored Reeves' Apes films.

[Vordan]

Why? It's not like Diana killing anyone is controversial save for a comic fans on a forum.

Phil Jimenez had a great explanation on Word Balloon for why it is a bad thing, and I agree with him. Basically it’s become Diana’s “thing” at the expense of everything else. Before Diana and the Amazons were the peace and love proponents, and Diana used her lasso because it was a non lethal weapon. But then it began to change, starting really with Perez’s run which had her initially kill before gradually softening her, then Kingdom Come started pushing the whole “she’s a warrior” aspect, and then it culminated in killing Lord. Now Diana is viewed as “the one who kills”, the one who gets her hands dirty, the most murderous of the DC Trinity. Phil thinks that’s not a good characterization for her and I agree.