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  1. #4411
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Okay. Still not my taste, then. But I swear, I actually saw the words "dark" and "gritty" just recently as a descriptor. So someone said it, even if it was wrong (wegotthiscovered, maybe?).
    Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if they said that. 😁

  2. #4412
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    I agree Snyder didn't want a universe like that, but I think it's pretty obvious at a point after Man of Steel that Warner Brothers wanted a shared cinematic universe like the MCU.

    Which is why as much as I don't like Snyder's DC films one bit, I don't blame him for everything that happened.
    I definitely think, to some degree, Snyder may have worked in isolation and away from having to spearhead the Shared Cinematic Universe WB wanted at the time. None of it synched very well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stromberg View Post
    BoP is said to be violent and bloody, but not dark and gritty. Margot herself said that this is not a serious movie.
    Kind of to be expected for a Harley Quinn lead movie.
    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    Shazam wasn't produced by WB proper but New Line Cinema, their smaller subsidiary studio.
    I don't know what to think about that .

  3. #4413
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I don't know what to think about that .
    Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it all the DC films WB has put out over the years (like Begins, Donner Superman, Batman 89) were handled by subsidiary companies too, weren't they? I *think* the DC films only fell apart when WB itself tried their hand at making the movies. So if Shazam was handled by New Line (finally watched it, its fun but didn't blow me away) that might explain why it isn't horrible.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  4. #4414
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it all the DC films WB has put out over the years (like Begins, Donner Superman, Batman 89) were handled by subsidiary companies too, weren't they? I *think* the DC films only fell apart when WB itself tried their hand at making the movies. So if Shazam was handled by New Line (finally watched it, its fun but didn't blow me away) that might explain why it isn't horrible.
    Reeve Superman films were made by the Salkinds and Cannon films they were more a kin to Marvel's films being made by Sony or Fox except WB had Distribution rights.

  5. #4415
    Ultimate Member Holt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    I agree Snyder didn't want a universe like that, but I think it's pretty obvious at a point after Man of Steel that Warner Brothers wanted a shared cinematic universe like the MCU.

    Which is why as much as I don't like Snyder's DC films one bit, I don't blame him for everything that happened.
    You also had Avengers out in 2012, and I don't know anyone except the extremely gullible who think WB didn't sit up and take notice when that flick broke box office records. Pretty much all of Hollywood suddenly jumped onboard the shared universe bandwagon after that, and WB is no exception.

  6. #4416
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    Which is why I don't understand why no one else has pulled it off. It's not like Disney is hiding how they made it work. You can look at the pattern of their releases, all the things they did right and the things they did wrong. And another Hollywood studio just has to repeat that same methodology. But they don't. They always think that they can do it different and that this will give them an edge over Disney.

    We're told that Hollywood simply copies and pastes ideas--but that's not really how it works. There are a bunch of people who all want to get a taste and they can only do that by contributing something to the process. And that's where you get the too many cooks that spoil the broth. If a big executive was really smart, he wouldn't stand for that. I think in the case of Warners, they don't want to play with all their own money, so they bring in other investors and other studios, but then they don't have absolute control of the product.

  7. #4417
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Which is why I don't understand why no one else has pulled it off. It's not like Disney is hiding how they made it work. You can look at the pattern of their releases, all the things they did right and the things they did wrong. And another Hollywood studio just has to repeat that same methodology. But they don't. They always think that they can do it different and that this will give them an edge over Disney.
    Yep, and it wasn't an accident either. I remember a quote somewhere that outright states that they were NOT going to do what Marvel was. My first thought to that statement was "What? you mean successful?"

    Marvel/Disney did NOT make the boatloads of money that they've made with these movies by a fluke. They obviously made movies that connected with the audience and gave them what they wanted. They raised C-list characters to household names and drown in merchandising and sequels... DC looked at that and said "Nahhhh I have BETTER idea..."

  8. #4418
    Astonishing Member The Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Which is why I don't understand why no one else has pulled it off. It's not like Disney is hiding how they made it work. You can look at the pattern of their releases, all the things they did right and the things they did wrong. And another Hollywood studio just has to repeat that same methodology. But they don't. They always think that they can do it different and that this will give them an edge over Disney.

    We're told that Hollywood simply copies and pastes ideas--but that's not really how it works. There are a bunch of people who all want to get a taste and they can only do that by contributing something to the process. And that's where you get the too many cooks that spoil the broth. If a big executive was really smart, he wouldn't stand for that. I think in the case of Warners, they don't want to play with all their own money, so they bring in other investors and other studios, but then they don't have absolute control of the product.
    It's worth mentioning that the MCU was already in swing around the time Disney actually bought Marvel. The MCU was really built by Kevin Feige and the people working under him. Disney just bought the right IP at the right time and (smartly) allowed their subsidiary to do what he wants without any executive interference. The best contribution that Disney made to the MCU itself was removing Ike Perlmutter from the process after Feige asked since Ike had screwed over many MCU movies in the first two phases with meddling. Other than that, they've mostly been hands-off with the MCU. If Warner wants that success, they need their own Kevin Feige who could pull a shared universe off. But as many studios are learning, it's much easier said than done

  9. #4419
    Incredible Member Castling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Which is why I don't understand why no one else has pulled it off. It's not like Disney is hiding how they made it work. You can look at the pattern of their releases, all the things they did right and the things they did wrong. And another Hollywood studio just has to repeat that same methodology. But they don't. They always think that they can do it different and that this will give them an edge over Disney.

    We're told that Hollywood simply copies and pastes ideas--but that's not really how it works. There are a bunch of people who all want to get a taste and they can only do that by contributing something to the process. And that's where you get the too many cooks that spoil the broth. If a big executive was really smart, he wouldn't stand for that. I think in the case of Warners, they don't want to play with all their own money, so they bring in other investors and other studios, but then they don't have absolute control of the product.
    The funny thing is WB created a 14 year connected animated universe on TV and film (and one film in theaters). Feige just took that model and brought it to the cinema. It's not even remotely original.

  10. #4420
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castling View Post
    The funny thing is WB created a 14 year connected animated universe on TV and film (and one film in theaters). Feige just took that model and brought it to the cinema. It's not even remotely original.

    Exactly. This exactly. WB animation have done it already before. Sadly, they used the wrong person to build the live action connected DC universe. Snyder made movies for a niche audience. Feige did it for all.

    WB also did it before in the 70s with Superfriends, which was a very popular show all kids knew and watched, including myself.

  11. #4421
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    Yep, and it wasn't an accident either. I remember a quote somewhere that outright states that they were NOT going to do what Marvel was. My first thought to that statement was "What? you mean successful?"

    Marvel/Disney did NOT make the boatloads of money that they've made with these movies by a fluke. They obviously made movies that connected with the audience and gave them what they wanted. They raised C-list characters to household names and drown in merchandising and sequels... DC looked at that and said "Nahhhh I have BETTER idea..."
    Bingo.

    Like Castling said WB did this 14 years ago with the cartoons. How did they do it? Same way Marvel did-they LET IT GO.

    They used a bunch of folks that many of whom are NOT welcomed in the comic book stores or by certain factions of fans. And did NOT care.

    Marvel gave the public what they wanted VARIETY and backed it up with merchandise. And now they got all their toys back. DC is going to bet buried.

    The top 20 comic book movies only has 4 from DC. With Black Panther as number 2. Carol Danvers is number 8 and she had a FULL BLOWN hate campaign lead by a former Dc employee.

  12. #4422
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    Exactly. This exactly. WB animation have done it already before. Sadly, they used the wrong person to build the live action connected DC universe. Snyder made movies for a niche audience. Feige did it for all.

    WB also did it before in the 70s with Superfriends, which was a very popular show all kids knew and watched, including myself.
    The animation side had no issue using the likes of John, Hawkgirl, Static, Booster Gold or Young Justice kids.

    Live Action movie side would fight you tooth and nail to keep a lot of those guys out.

    Meanwhile kids are saying "I am Groot." or "Wakanda Forever."

  13. #4423
    Incredible Member Castling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Bingo.

    Like Castling said WB did this 14 years ago with the cartoons. How did they do it? Same way Marvel did-they LET IT GO.

    They used a bunch of folks that many of whom are NOT welcomed in the comic book stores or by certain factions of fans. And did NOT care.

    Marvel gave the public what they wanted VARIETY and backed it up with merchandise. And now they got all their toys back. DC is going to bet buried.

    The top 20 comic book movies only has 4 from DC. With Black Panther as number 2. Carol Danvers is number 8 and she had a FULL BLOWN hate campaign lead by a former Dc employee.
    Van Sciver has worked for DC and Marvel, and he was the face of Comicsgate which was made up of predominantly Marvel apostates.

  14. #4424
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castling View Post
    The funny thing is WB created a 14 year connected animated universe on TV and film (and one film in theaters). Feige just took that model and brought it to the cinema. It's not even remotely original.
    DC's always at least beaten Marvel when it came to animation.

  15. #4425
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Marvel gave the public what they wanted VARIETY and backed it up with merchandise.
    IS this a joke?

    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    The top 20 comic book movies only has 4 from DC. With Black Panther as number 2. Carol Danvers is number 8 and she had a FULL BLOWN hate campaign lead by a former Dc employee.
    Shocker, the brand that has been crapping out films every year for almost two decades straight has the highest grossing movies and as we all know, having a higher box office is representative of lasting cultural legacy and fanbase? (Hint: its not)

    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    The animation side had no issue using the likes of John, Hawkgirl, Static, Booster Gold or Young Justice kids.

    Live Action movie side would fight you tooth and nail to keep a lot of those guys out.
    So, we're just ignoring Aquaman, right?

    Meanwhile kids are saying "I am Groot." or "Wakanda Forever."
    Except, they're not. They're doing Fortnite dances.

    Even if that was true, so what? You seem to be under the impression that, "Well because Marvel is winning now, they won forever!" Except we know that's not how pop culture works. Things come and go, I shouldn't have tell someone that.

    Also can I call out the disingenuous talking point sprouted by MCU fans that DC and Marvel were somehow on equal terms and that Marvel just out-played DC? Marvel has always been the larger company, regardless if the publishes prints good or bad comics. Even before the MCU, there were way more Marvel films than DC ones.
    #InGunnITrust, #ZackSnyderistheBlueprint, #ReleasetheAyerCut

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