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  1. #31
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    How about making a Sirens movie and have Harley lead that instead of forcing her in as the lead of a BoP movie? It is fine if they don't want to do a Harley solo movie because they feel she works better in a team setting, but why drag the BoP franchise down and making it another Harley vehicle when they have an entire team built around Harley and her friends already in Sirens. It makes no sense, especially as Harley isn't a hero.
    Yeah it really makes no sense. Gotham City Sirens works so much better for the R rated girl gang flick they’re trying to make. Plus it has “Gotham” in the title which already increases its marketability. They could do a Birds of Prey movie after that with Batgirl as the headliner.
    It’s like taking the concept of Suicide Squad, putting Nightwing on the team and calling the movie Titans.

  2. #32
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    Yeah it really makes no sense. Gotham City Sirens works so much better for the R rated girl gang flick they’re trying to make. Plus it has “Gotham” in the title which already increases its marketability. They could do a Birds of Prey movie after that with Batgirl as the headliner.
    It’s like taking the concept of Suicide Squad, putting Nightwing on the team and calling the movie Titans.
    Why does it feel like DC is stuck in the 90s comic book movie mindset? Where it has the name with similar elements so its pretty much *insert property*.

    Stuff like Steel, Nick Fury, Swamp Thing, etc. What is even going on?
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  3. #33
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    Good god people is it THAT serious? Does putting Harley on Birds of Prey suddenly taint the PERFECT BRAND which is Birds of Prey?

    Harley is on the team, big woop. She wanted to make a female empowerment film with Birds of Prey. The opposite is nothing. Jesus Christ man, just take what you can get.

    Harley is a wildcard/anti-hero now. That's her brand. What we know from the comics literally doesn't mean anything anymore. Birds of Prey, GCS, or whatever are just IPs to be scrubbed and changed for the bigger market. It's one of the things that you're gonna have to deal with.
    Last edited by ross61; 08-08-2018 at 01:37 AM.

  4. #34
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    Double post
    Last edited by ross61; 08-08-2018 at 01:35 AM.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ross61 View Post
    Good god people is it THAT serious? Does putting Harley on Birds of Prey suddenly taint the PERFECT BRAND which is Birds of Prey?

    Harley is on the team, big woop. She wanted to make a female empowerment film with Birds of Prey. The opposite is nothing. Jesus Christ man, just take what you can get.

    Harley is a wildcard/anti-hero now. That's her brand. What we know from the comics literally doesn't mean anything anymore. Birds of Prey, GCS, or whatever are just IPs to be scrubbed and changed for the bigger market. It's one of the things that you're gonna have to deal with.
    To me, having Harley Quinn joining the Birds of Prey, or working with them for a while, isn't that big a deal; the Birds of Prey and the Gotham City Sirens (both individually and as a group) have worked together before. What bugs me is the continued erasure of Babs. In a way it's like having the X-Men without Charles Xavier in their opening movie. Babs is also one of the worst-used name characters in the DC.

    A lot of what I've heard about the movie—and I hope I've gotten the wrong impression here—also seems to point towards the movie reducing the Birds of Prey to Harley Quinn's sidekicks.

    Of course the characters and teams are going to be changed in the transition to movies. But at the same time, they can't be scrubbed too much, or they will lose their identity. That's doing a disfavour for both the comics and the movies. Especially now that this was the main criticism that was levelled against Man of Steel.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    Why does it feel like DC is stuck in the 90s comic book movie mindset? Where it has the name with similar elements so its pretty much *insert property*.

    Stuff like Steel, Nick Fury, Swamp Thing, etc. What is even going on?
    What are you talking about? How is putting Harley in BoP a 90s mind set? DC and Marvel mess with team rosters all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    To me, having Harley Quinn joining the Birds of Prey, or working with them for a while, isn't that big a deal; the Birds of Prey and the Gotham City Sirens (both individually and as a group) have worked together before. What bugs me is the continued erasure of Babs. In a way it's like having the X-Men without Charles Xavier in their opening movie. Babs is also one of the worst-used name characters in the DC.

    A lot of what I've heard about the movie—and I hope I've gotten the wrong impression here—also seems to point towards the movie reducing the Birds of Prey to Harley Quinn's sidekicks.

    Of course the characters and teams are going to be changed in the transition to movies. But at the same time, they can't be scrubbed too much, or they will lose their identity. That's doing a disfavour for both the comics and the movies. Especially now that this was the main criticism that was levelled against Man of Steel.
    A criticism that remains largely unfounded. Most of what was seen in MoS wasn't new to the Superman mythos (some of it was in fact part of the original comics). There have been adaptations that were far more radical in their changes than MoS. Fans have a rather narrow-minded view as to what counts as an "identity" for characters that have existed for decades.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 08-08-2018 at 03:11 AM.

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    A criticism that remains largely unfounded. Most of what was seen in MoS wasn't new to the Superman mythos (some of it was in fact part of the original comics). There have been adaptations that were far more radical in their changes than MoS. Fans have a rather narrow-minded view as to what counts as an "identity" for characters that have existed for decades.
    When I'm talking "identity" here I was mostly talking about how the character "feels", and that is seldom something that comes through in specific story beats. There is also the thing that when something clearly is set elseworlds, or as variant history, and makes that clear up front, you have far greater room to be radical (see Kingdom Come or Red Son). But an objectivist Pa Kent was not simply radical, it was a departure that changed the very identity of Clark Kent's upbrining.

    Of course you can find narrow-minded fans, but at the same time not all writers grok the characters they are given the privilege to write.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    When I'm talking "identity" here I was mostly talking about how the character "feels", and that is seldom something that comes through in specific story beats. There is also the thing that when something clearly is set elseworlds, or as variant history, and makes that clear up front, you have far greater room to be radical (see Kingdom Come or Red Son). But an objectivist Pa Kent was not simply radical, it was a departure that changed the very identity of Clark Kent's upbrining.

    Of course you can find narrow-minded fans, but at the same time not all writers grok the characters they are given the privilege to write.
    I wouldn't call telling your kid to think before they leap an example of objectivism.

  9. #39
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    How about making a Sirens movie and have Harley lead that instead of forcing her in as the lead of a BoP movie? It is fine if they don't want to do a Harley solo movie because they feel she works better in a team setting, but why drag the BoP franchise down and making it another Harley vehicle when they have an entire team built around Harley and her friends already in Sirens. It makes no sense, especially as Harley isn't a hero.
    Birds of Prey have had better comics than Sirens so the stronger the source material, the easier it is to adapt. Also, Robbie wants to be the main attraction and her being the sole "off-the-rails" character like Jack Sparrow to Black Canary and the BOP's "straight men" Orlando Bloom helps her achieve that more easily than having to compete with showstoppers Catwoman and Poison Ivy.

    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    What bugs me is the continued erasure of Babs.
    She's getting her own movie. And she may still be the secret part of the Birds of Prey movie.

  10. #40
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    How about making a Sirens movie and have Harley lead that instead of forcing her in as the lead of a BoP movie? It is fine if they don't want to do a Harley solo movie because they feel she works better in a team setting, but why drag the BoP franchise down and making it another Harley vehicle when they have an entire team built around Harley and her friends already in Sirens. It makes no sense, especially as Harley isn't a hero.
    Birds of Prey have had better comics than Sirens so the stronger the source material, the easier it is to adapt. Also, Robbie wants to be the main attraction and her being the sole "off-the-rails" character like Jack Sparrow to Black Canary and the BOP's "straight men" Orlando Bloom helps her achieve that more easily than having to compete with showstoppers Catwoman and Poison Ivy.

    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    What bugs me is the continued erasure of Babs.
    She's getting her own movie. And she may still be the secret part of the Birds of Prey movie.

  11. #41
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    Birds of Prey have had better comics than Sirens so the stronger the source material, the easier it is to adapt. Also, Robbie wants to be the main attraction and her being the sole "off-the-rails" character like Jack Sparrow to Black Canary and the BOP's "straight men" Orlando Bloom helps her achieve that more easily than having to compete with showstoppers Catwoman and Poison Ivy.
    Except very little of that good Birds of Prey material feature Harley Quinn; instead it rather features Babs heavily. And the two characters are so far away from each other in every way that they're hardly on the same map. So the adaptation thing is IMO a red herring.

    Also, if Robbie wants to be the main attraction, I'd say she's going about being so in a shitty way. Having Black Canary and Huntress needing introductions, Cassandra Cain needing introduction and likely a mentorship, and Margot Robbie as the centrepiece, I don't see much room or opportunity for Babs being given a real spot in the move.

  12. #42
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Except very little of that good Birds of Prey material feature Harley Quinn; instead it rather features Babs heavily. And the two characters are so far away from each other in every way that they're hardly on the same map. So the adaptation thing is IMO a red herring.
    The BOP have teamed up with unpredictable and zany characters before. It's not a completely alien concept.

    Also, if Robbie wants to be the main attraction, I'd say she's going about being so in a shitty way. Having Black Canary and Huntress needing introductions, Cassandra Cain needing introduction and likely a mentorship, and Margot Robbie as the centrepiece, I don't see much room or opportunity for Babs being given a real spot in the move.
    So it has to just achieve what every ensemble movie in history not named Avengers/Justice League has achieved then? Also, Babs probably is an unseen voice as Oracle who puts together the team and reveals herself at the end, setting up for the Batgirl solo film.

  13. #43
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Except very little of that good Birds of Prey material feature Harley Quinn; instead it rather features Babs heavily. And the two characters are so far away from each other in every way that they're hardly on the same map. So the adaptation thing is IMO a red herring.
    The BOP have teamed up with unpredictable and zany characters before. It's not a completely alien concept.

    Also, if Robbie wants to be the main attraction, I'd say she's going about being so in a shitty way. Having Black Canary and Huntress needing introductions, Cassandra Cain needing introduction and likely a mentorship, and Margot Robbie as the centrepiece, I don't see much room or opportunity for Babs being given a real spot in the move.
    So it has to just achieve what every ensemble movie in history not named Avengers/Justice League has achieved then? Also, Babs probably is an unseen voice as Oracle who puts together the team and reveals herself at the end, setting up for the Batgirl solo film.

  14. #44
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I don't know whether it's more sad or hilarious that WB is moving forward with a Supergirl movie instead of doing a new Superman film.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beantownbrown View Post
    It'll be cool to see what they do with Black Mask visually on-film, although I still think he would've fit more in a Gotham City Sirens film given the Catwoman connection.

    I'm curious if he'll have any kind of muscle, since he's pretty outclassed compared to the Birds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    Birds of Prey have had better comics than Sirens so the stronger the source material, the easier it is to adapt. Also, Robbie wants to be the main attraction and her being the sole "off-the-rails" character like Jack Sparrow to Black Canary and the BOP's "straight men" Orlando Bloom helps her achieve that more easily than having to compete with showstoppers Catwoman and Poison Ivy.
    Birds of Prey definitely has a lot more materials then the Sirens do, but they're also in practice just two different groups of characters.

    If this movie handles them right, then Canary, Huntress, Renee, and Cass should all be show-stoppers in their own right. Reducing them down to straight-men like this is Harley's movie would be doing them a major disservice in my opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    The BOP have teamed up with unpredictable and zany characters before. It's not a completely alien concept.
    I'm trying to think...I mean, I guess Zinda and Charlie are kind of zany? But way different from Harley.

    Whenever Harley popped up in a Gail Simone book she's usually getting knocked out or making a fool out of herself .

  15. #45
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I'm trying to think...I mean, I guess Zinda and Charlie are kind of zany? But way different from Harley.

    Whenever Harley popped up in a Gail Simone book she's usually getting knocked out or making a fool out of herself .
    Ivy and Selina too (more unpredictable than zany in the Harley kind of way though).

    Hmm, Harley seems to be the rare female character who Simone didn't particularly care for.

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