DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[byrd156]

Shazam was only in one DCAU episode though.

It was a pretty big episode at the time.

[Colossus1980]

I'll go out on a limb and say had it had the benefit of coming after better received movies, Wonder Woman would've broken a billion easily.

Why didn't Shazam do better at the BO? It came right after Aquaman which made a billion. Plus it got great reviews and sorry I don't buy it being sandwiched between CM and Endgame hurting it. It had Easter weekend to clean up but failed to do so.

What does this mean for sequels to Suicide Squad and Venom, both which got savaged by the critics? Are they both going to perform much worse?

[Pinsir]

Why didn't Shazam do better at the BO? It came right after Aquaman which made a billion. Plus it got great reviews and sorry I don't buy it being sandwiched between CM and Endgame hurting it. It had Easter weekend to clean up but failed to do so.

Shazam was never marketed as a huge blockbuster and it really isn't. It has a very meagre budget and its really a comedy dressed up in super hero apparel.

[Elmo]

Batman and Superman will never do as well as Marvel characters? We just gonna ignore the fact that Aquaman has made more than any Spider-Man movie ever? Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman also sell a lot more merchandise than any solo Marvel character except Spider-Man and the Avengers franchise. I think they're doing pretty well.

that's not what I was saying dude, I'm just saying it's not surprising that the MCU films have generally had a better BO reception than DC films

[The True Detective]

that's not what I was saying dude, I'm just saying it's not surprising that the MCU films have generally had a better BO reception than DC films

But you specifically said Batman and Superman will never do as well as Marvel characters, if Aquaman can outdo Marvels poster boy I don't see why 2 much bigger heroes can't outdo them. I'm not denying Marvel films are more popular but I think well received Batman and Superman films can beat some of them at the box office.

[Confuzzled]

and sorry I don't buy it being sandwiched between CM and Endgame hurting it.

It's the first time 3 superhero films came out in a little more than a month and a half's time, and CM and Endgame were way more anticipated.

It had Easter weekend to clean up but failed to do so.

Coz Endgame was right around the corner and people chose to catch up in time by watching/rewatching CM instead.

Also as Pinsir said, the marketing for Shazam didn't really push it as a must-see blockbuster.

[Korath]

But you specifically said Batman and Superman will never do as well as Marvel characters, if Aquaman can outdo Marvels poster boy I don't see why 2 much bigger heroes can't outdo them. I'm not denying Marvel films are more popular but I think well received Batman and Superman films can beat some of them at the box office.

Because nobody, and I mean nobody, had any pre-conceived notion of what an Aquaman movie should be. The general audience and the comic book fans hadn't a Superman the Movie or Batman by Tim Burton/ the Nolan Trilogy in their mind bhefore Aquaman went into production.

For Batman and Superman, they have to actually overcome those, especially the former, where the old movies are held in very (unearned to me) high esteem, to the point that anything different in the takes of them his shot down very vocally, drawing crowds away. Sadly, Superman Returns also proved that adhering to the whole Reeve's vibe won't draw crowds either.

Batman probably suffer a little less from that, but he does too, he has had a lot of movies, after all.

I can bet that if in forty/fifty years a new Iron Man get out, people will judge it compared to Downey Jr.'s movies and it'll be harder to please the audience.

[Holt]

Despite the popularity of Burton's Batman, people still gave the Nolan movies a chance and heartily embraced them. Hell, Batman v. Superman having a massive mega opening weekend before cratering due to negative word of mouth indicates that most people were willing to give Snyder's take on Batman a chance as well; they just wound up not liking the end result. The Reeve movies have cast a long shadow, but they're also 40 years old at this point. There's an entire generation out there that would conceivably be open to a new, iconic take on Superman, the problem was a bunch of them just didn't like what WB was putting out.

Why didn't Shazam do better at the BO?

Shazam is not a very well known character, and the DCEU is not at the MCU's level yet where the public goodwill is high enough that people are gonna go take a chance on an unknown property like the Guardians of the Galaxy or Ant-Man. This is essentially the whole point that's been made the past few pages: right now the MCU has a level of popularity and trust among audiences that DC is going to have to work for, despite the DCEU supposedly having "bigger" characters like Batman, Superman, the Joker and all that.

Maybe it's just me growing up with the DCAU and other DC cartoons but I would've thought that would make "Captain Marvel" a more recognizable name before the name change.

I don't think he was used frequently enough to make a difference one way or another. Probably the biggest exposure the character had was his old 70s kids show, and that's where a lot of the misconception about the name started, I think. I remember playing Mortal Kombat vs. DC with some friends, and my dad walked by and said "Whoa, is that Shazam??" because he had at least some vague recollection of the TV series.

[Colossus1980]

But you specifically said Batman and Superman will never do as well as Marvel characters, if Aquaman can outdo Marvels poster boy I don't see why 2 much bigger heroes can't outdo them. I'm not denying Marvel films are more popular but I think well received Batman and Superman films can beat some of them at the box office.

The first Spider-Man movie did a mammoth 403M domestic back in 2002. That figure still beats a lot of CBM even now! By the sixth and seventh Spidey flick not to mention a franchise killer from the two Garfield's movies it's still a wonder the poster boy is doing so well as it is. Let's see how well the fifth Aquaman is going to do at the box office.

And Superman is a billion dollar franchise if given the proper director. I blame Singer for boring the hell out of audiences with his movie. He doesn't get enough blame for putting a black eye on the IP.

[The_Lurk]

A bunch of people already thought the dude's name was Shazam, which was part of the justification for the name change. Prior to this movie, I don't think "Captain Marvel" was a name that held much sway among your average person one way or another.



The only really different environment is the one people noted: Captain Marvel is part of a much more popular brand. It benefitted from being tied to the Avengers movies, while Wonder Woman's association with Batman v. Superman was more of a liability than anything.

I'll go out on a limb and say had it had the benefit of coming after better received movies, Wonder Woman would've broken a billion easily.

That limb must hurt. Lots of ppl where not really convinced of Gadots WW till she blasted all doubts away with her universally praised powerful appearance in BvS. Without that WW would have tanked. Hard.

[Confuzzled]

That limb must hurt. Lots of ppl where not really convinced of Gadots WW till she blasted all doubts away with her universally praised powerful appearance in BvS. Without that WW would have tanked. Hard.

Hmm, I don't know about that. I kind of think Marvel contributed more to WW's success than BvS by simply missing the chance of making a good female superhero film despite raising high interest in the genre from 2012 when the first Avengers came out.

At the time, people expected a Black Widow movie to come out soon. But it was shocking that it would take another 5 years for a superheroine film to release, and even more surprising that DC would beat Marvel to the punch (though now not so surprising knowing the info about Ike Perlmutter revealed through email leaks).

[Vakanai]

Why didn't Shazam do better at the BO? It came right after Aquaman which made a billion. Plus it got great reviews and sorry I don't buy it being sandwiched between CM and Endgame hurting it. It had Easter weekend to clean up but failed to do so.

What does this mean for sequels to Suicide Squad and Venom, both which got savaged by the critics? Are they both going to perform much worse?

As others said, whether you accept it or not it being sandwiched between CM and Endgame really did hurt it, as well as the marketing not being that great. It still did respectable for its budget though.

As for what this means for sequels to SS and Venom? Nothing, it has nothing to do with them. Venom wasn't a great movie, but it was a fun one during a time with little to no competition, so it didn't matter as much that critics hated it because the word of mouth was pretty decent. If the sequel can pull off a similar tone and time slot it'll do fine despite the critics yet again. Suicide Squad might have a harder time because it opened big but dwindled down a bit because the word of mouth wasn't as good, but a better movie with good marketing could still turn that around, especially if the DC movies before it are good enough.

[Castling]

Why didn't Shazam do better at the BO? It came right after Aquaman which made a billion. Plus it got great reviews and sorry I don't buy it being sandwiched between CM and Endgame hurting it. It had Easter weekend to clean up but failed to do so.

What does this mean for sequels to Suicide Squad and Venom, both which got savaged by the critics? Are they both going to perform much worse?

But it's probably true. Disney opened ticket sales for Endgame on Shazam's opening weekend. That forced audiences to make a choice: buy umpteen Endgame tickets or catch Shazam. It was an economic choice for the general audience.

[Castling]

But you specifically said Batman and Superman will never do as well as Marvel characters, if Aquaman can outdo Marvels poster boy I don't see why 2 much bigger heroes can't outdo them. I'm not denying Marvel films are more popular but I think well received Batman and Superman films can beat some of them at the box office.

Why is Batman lumped in here, when he's had TWO billion dollar films, more than any other solo superhero.

[stargazer01]

That limb must hurt. Lots of ppl where not really convinced of Gadots WW till she blasted all doubts away with her universally praised powerful appearance in BvS. Without that WW would have tanked. Hard.

I wasn't wowed by Godot as Wonder Woman in BvS, thought she was fine not bad like some feared. Still think WW's presence in BvS helped it a lot because she was used well. Her entrance when she saved Batman from Doomsday was probably the high point of the film that was supposed to be about Superman and Batman....

She was better in her solo and sold me she was the right choice. I also liked her in JL. I don't think Gadot is a great actress, but she's competent enough and has great presence and charisma.