DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[Castling]

Well she still doesn’t look like Black Canary.

Well, you better hope she's not the breakout character people are saying she is. Because if she is, anything that doesn't resemble Jurnee's depiction will not be the Black Canary to general audiences.

[Castling]

The contrast with that video and the comic looks is strong...

Oh look! A villain is a member of the Birds of Prey!
Pearl-clutching time!

[Castling]

They've had frequent costume changes but consistent visual styles that I don't see reflected in their movie costumes. Like Batman and Superman have had various costumes but there is that visual consistency.

Yeah, their emblems. Neither Dinah nor Helena have iconic costumes that support branding, which is why artists are free to change them up. Dinah's outfits will clearly come out of her stage wardrobe. Helena is a trained assassin with her trademark crossbow.

[Johnny]

Well, you better hope she's not the breakout character people are saying she is. Because if she is, anything that doesn't resemble Jurnee's depiction will not be the Black Canary to general audiences.

That's a little far-fetched. Black Canary is a well-known character that a lot of people know how she looks like. Either way, adaptations come and go. The only thing casual moviegoers care about is having a good time, they don't tend to care how comic book characters happen to look like. I don't think the precious general audience cares that much whether Black Canary looks like Katie Cassidy or Jurnee Smollett.

[Ascended]

This is just arbitrary. Instead of looking at the creative teams behind these projects your just claiming, "Its because their team-up movies!" Its better then saying "All DC movies are bad!" which is probably what you would have said a year ago, but its still no more nuanced.

No, what I'm claiming is that WB/DC struggle to pull off films with a single character, and it seems that juggling a multi-lead narrative is largely beyond them. Yes, the people behind the camera make all the difference but it's WB who put those people there. Look at WB's record. This isn't my bias, this is just how it is. Don't get me wrong, I like the solo films well enough, and I actually think MoS and WW are brilliant, far better than most of what we get from other superhero studios. But the group films? Have we actually gotten even one that was a unblemished success? No.

You're right that my post had no nuance to it. WB has left no room for nuance. What they've given us is a lackluster track record and a ton of movies they "plan" to make that never actually happen, actors leaving major roles, and writers and directors leaving major films. The last couple DCEU films have been solid, and I give them full credit for that. But just because Aquaman and Shazam weren't awful doesn't mean that the problems WB has suffered from are gone.

This is another MCU myth. There is no evidence to indicate a in depth long term plan in the MCU at all beyond Infinity Stones and Thanos and even then these were very vague. In Cap 1 the Infinity Stone is milked to make super weapons, in Avengers 1 the stone has mind control powers, but in Avengers 2 its an AI. (FYI, I pretty though when the Tezzeret first appeared in the MCU it was not conceived of as an infinity stone) Its the same object, but in each film it displays different properties, almost as if they were making it up as they went. We also know for instance that the Russo Brothers only got the idea for Civil War when BvS was announced. The infinity gauntlet was originally in a Asgard's treasury even though they knew for sure they were going to do an Infinity War movie down the line, suggesting either poor foresight or a different conception in Infinity War's narrative.

When did I mention the MCU here?

This isn't about the MCU. This is about WB/DC not being able to stick to anything. A shared universe requires consistency. WB has none. For example, in the DCEU Batman is an older, worn down hero who (for a time) lost his way. Except now he's not an older guy and if the movie ever does actually happen who knows how much of his previous DCEU history will be included? There's no Superman at all right now. Cyborg is gone completely too I believe. So how is a shared universe supposed to exist when an individual IP keeps getting shifted and moved around and taken away? I know you're a fan of the DCEU and that's great. I'm glad someone is happy with the product. But this studio is not building a sustainable shared experience, they're stumbling to create single, individual films and have already lost track of their initial plans and actors. The whole thing is poorly run. It has nothing to do with Marvel at all.

[Bloxer]

You know it isn't like these characters suits are all that complex and hard to get right, so I don't get why they're making it look that way.

This is just arbitrary. Instead of looking at the creative teams behind these projects your just claiming, "Its because their team-up movies!" Its better then saying "All DC movies are bad!" which is probably what you would have said a year ago, but its still no more nuanced.



This is another MCU myth. There is no evidence to indicate a in depth long term plan in the MCU at all beyond Infinity Stones and Thanos and even then these were very vague. In Cap 1 the Infinity Stone is milked to make super weapons, in Avengers 1 the stone has mind control powers, but in Avengers 2 its an AI. (FYI, I pretty though when the Tezzeret first appeared in the MCU it was not conceived of as an infinity stone) Its the same object, but in each film it displays different properties, almost as if they were making it up as they went. We also know for instance that the Russo Brothers only got the idea for Civil War when BvS was announced. The infinity gauntlet was originally in a Asgard's treasury even though they knew for sure they were going to do an Infinity War movie down the line, suggesting either poor foresight or a different conception in Infinity War's narrative.

Feels telling to me when people bring up the MCU and try to tear it down as a defense when people criticize DC films and their own failings at a cinematic universe.
Especially since you're not even getting the details right, you say the Tesseract suddenly had mind-control powers in the first Avengers but that's false it was Loki's staff which housed the mind stone, and describing the mind stone at its core to be like and AI doesn't even contradict anything.

[Frontier]

Well, you better hope she's not the breakout character people are saying she is. Because if she is, anything that doesn't resemble Jurnee's depiction will not be the Black Canary to general audiences.

Well, considering there are other very true-to-form depictions of Dinah (Young Justice, Injustice, etc.) I would hope they would be more open then that.

Oh look! A villain is a member of the Birds of Prey!
Pearl-clutching time!

Uh, yeah, I guess? Especially if it's Harley.

Yeah, their emblems. Neither Dinah nor Helena have iconic costumes that support branding, which is why artists are free to change them up. Dinah's outfits will clearly come out of her stage wardrobe. Helena is a trained assassin with her trademark crossbow.

What? They totally do. How else have they had such visually consistent costumes ?

The only outlier with Dinah's look was her JLI costume, her original BoP costume, and the New 52 look, but none of those were as popular as her traditional comic look.

That's like saying Harley's jester outfit isn't iconic just because they're not using it in the movies.

[Castling]

That's a little far-fetched. Black Canary is a well-known character that a lot of people know how she looks like. Either way, adaptations come and go. The only thing casual moviegoers care about is having a good time, they don't tend to care how comic book characters happen to look like. I don't think the precious general audience cares that much whether Black Canary looks like Katie Cassidy or Jurnee Smollett.

For a generation of audiences, Black Canary is divisive because of the Arrowverse, and she doesn't particularly stand out as a unique character because of the number of women who have put their stamp on the role. For the majority of audiences, Canary is not as well known as Black Widow. So, not only will Jurnee give her take on the character, but she will also be introduced as the Black Canary to the most number of eyes.
If that character is popular, expect her role to expand not only with her own film (whispers suggest this where WB is headed with Dinah) but also Birds of Prey sequels and JL films.

[Frontier]

For a generation of audiences, Black Canary is divisive because of the Arrowverse, and she doesn't particularly stand out as a unique character because of the number of women who have put their stamp on the role. For the majority of audiences, Canary is not as well known as Black Widow. So, not only will Jurnee give her take on the character, but she will also be introduced as the Black Canary to the most number of eyes.
If that character is popular, expect her role to expand not only with her own film (whispers suggest this where WB is headed with Dinah) but also Birds of Prey sequels and JL films.

I don't know if I'd said the Arrowverse has made her "divisive." But they did really screw up the character there.

I really just do not see her jumping out to that extent, if only because BoP seems to be in it's own little niche corner of the DC films. That's not to say it won't be popular but I'm not expecting this Black Canary or Huntress to be popping up in Justice League movies that would tonally and stylistically be the exact opposite of what they're doing here.

Like, how would this version of Huntress and Billy Batson look standing next to each other? I don't think that's something that's in the cards.

[Johnny]

For a generation of audiences, Black Canary is divisive because of the Arrowverse, and she doesn't particularly stand out as a unique character because of the number of women who have put their stamp on the role. For the majority of audiences, Canary is not as well known as Black Widow. So, not only will Jurnee give her take on the character, but she will also be introduced as the Black Canary to the most number of eyes.
If that character is popular, expect her role to expand not only with her own film (whispers suggest this where WB is headed with Dinah) but also Birds of Prey sequels and JL films.

She's divisive to people who are familiar with the character. The casual fans that comprise this "generation" you're referring to aren't familiar with the character of Dinah Lance or how she's "supposed" to be portrayed. There's really nothing to expect at this point, the only way I can see any of what you bring up becoming a reality is if this version of Black Canary manages to stand out as much as Margot Robbie's Harley Quinn did, which I'm not holding my breath for as of yet.

[Castling]

Like, how would this version of Huntress and Billy Batson look standing next to each other? I don't think that's something that's in the cards.

The same way Black Widow looks standing next to Thor and Hulk.

[Castling]

She's divisive to people who are familiar with the character. The casual fans that comprise this "generation" you're referring to aren't familiar with the character of Dinah Lance or how she's "supposed" to be portrayed. There's really nothing to expect at this point, the only way I can see any of what you bring up becoming a reality is if this version of Black Canary manages to stand out as much as Margot Robbie's Harley Quinn did, which I'm not holding my breath for as of yet.

Well, that's the word, that Black Canary and Black Mask steal the show.
And my point was that whoever WB pushes as Black Canary before the most number of eyes, should she become a hit, will become the definitive Black Canary.

[Frontier]

The same way Black Widow looks standing next to Thor and Hulk.

Black Widow looks more like she's in a Superhero movie, so I don't think it would have the same effect.

[The Darknight Detective]

She's divisive to people who are familiar with the character. The casual fans that comprise this "generation" you're referring to aren't familiar with the character of Dinah Lance or how she's "supposed" to be portrayed.

Yep. She isn't really close to being a household name at the present time, though hopefully that will change in the near future.

[Castling]

Black Widow looks more like she's in a Superhero movie, so I don't think it would have the same effect.

Yes, but she looks ridiculous next to Thor, Hulk, and Iron Man. Hell, for years people wondered why she and Hawkeye were on the team. They don't even have powers.
And Black Canary doesn't have to stay in a grounded light, especially when called up to the big league(s).