DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[Stick Figure]

I really like the Huntress image. That to me is a great look. Best of the 3. Canary looks different obviously but still good. She looks modern which is good though.

[Frontier]

Yes, but she looks ridiculous next to Thor, Hulk, and Iron Man. Hell, for years people wondered why she and Hawkeye were on the team. They don't even have powers.

I don't see it that way since the Shared Universe aspect was established from the ground up and there was enough consistency in tone and style to where it came off like she would fit in the same film as those three.

I'm not getting that sense with BoP versus other DC films.

And Black Canary doesn't have to stay in a grounded light, especially when called up to the big league(s).

I wonder how much character shifting we'll see in the new DC films.

[Pinsir]

Feels telling to me when people bring up the MCU and try to tear it down as a defense when people criticize DC films and their own failings at a cinematic universe.

Except I didn't bring up the MCU, another poster did and invoked it to try to tear apart the DCEU. That context matters.

Also, I'm not criticizing the MCU, I'm stating basic facts in how it functions. The MCU operates on the same temporal framework as any other studio, they may have a long term goal, but the individual details are subject to change.

Also Zach Snyder had a Justice League trilogy planned, he's revealed the contents of the planned story publicly. I'm not sure now if there is a plan now, but there definitely was when Snyder was working at the project, yet this claim has circling about when Man of Steel was released.

Especially since you're not even getting the details right, you say the Tesseract suddenly had mind-control powers in the first Avengers but that's false it was Loki's staff which housed the mind stone, and describing the mind stone at its core to be like and AI doesn't even contradict anything.

I actually wasn't sure what you were talking, but I knew for certain that Avengers 1 Loki's staff did not possess an Infinity Stone and yep, I was right, they 100% retconed Loki's staff to have an Infinity Stone in it. Here's an article on CBR that says as much (FYI, the Cosmic Cube thing is listed there also). I'm pretty sure Loki only starts using the "mind stone" to possess people after coming into contact with the Cosmic Cube and its throughout the rest of the film that it is implied that its the Cosmic Cube that controlling people.

I was was wrong in thinking it was the Tezzeret that was used to create Ultron, but I'm still not wrong in saying how inconsistent the stone was used. After this retcon you go from mind control powers to AI to putting it in a robot and giving him the ability to shoot lasers from his forehead

[Bloxer]

Except I didn't bring up the MCU, another poster did and invoked it to try to tear apart the DCEU. That context matters.

Also, I'm not criticizing the MCU, I'm stating basic facts in how it functions. The MCU operates on the same temporal framework as any other studio, they may have a long term goal, but the individual details are subject to change.

Also Zach Snyder had a Justice League trilogy planned, he's revealed the contents of the planned story publicly. I'm not sure now if there is a plan now, but there definitely was when Snyder was working at the project, yet this claim has circling about when Man of Steel was released.



I actually wasn't sure what you were talking, but I knew for certain that Avengers 1 Loki's staff did not possess an Infinity Stone and yep, I was right, they 100% retconed Loki's staff to have an Infinity Stone in it. Here's an article on CBR that says as much (FYI, the Cosmic Cube thing is listed there also). I'm pretty sure Loki only starts using the "mind stone" to possess people after coming into contact with the Cosmic Cube and its throughout the rest of the film that it is implied that its the Cosmic Cube that controlling people.

I was was wrong in thinking it was the Tezzeret that was used to create Ultron, but I'm still not wrong in saying how inconsistent the stone was used. After this retcon you go from mind control powers to AI to putting it in a robot and giving him the ability to shoot lasers from his forehead

Again you're trying to criticize and still getting things wrong, it leads me to doubt that you've even seen the movie.
Throughout the entire film every time mind control was used or brought up in the film it was from the Loki's scepter, it was never implied that it was the cube, and even admitting that the scepter housing the mind stone is a retcon it was used consistently throughout the films, Loki constantly used it to shoot lazers in the first Avengers so Vision using the stone to do it isn't anything new, and again being able to describe the mind stone as being similar to an AI still doesn't contradict anything that we've seen it do.
And then you said the other poster brought up the MCU to tear down the DCEU, now that's a flat out lie, I looked at the poster you replied to, and the person they replied and so on and not once in that reply chain did anyone bring up the MCU, that was all you.

[Colossus1980]

Well she still doesn’t look like Black Canary.

I agree she looks nothing like Black Canary in the comics. But in reality there's almost nothing canon in comics. Characters change race, gender, and sexual orientation according to whoever plays them onscreen or if a writer dictates it in his arc.

[SiegePerilous02]

Yeah, their emblems. Neither Dinah nor Helena have iconic costumes that support branding, which is why artists are free to change them up. Dinah's outfits will clearly come out of her stage wardrobe. Helena is a trained assassin with her trademark crossbow.

Um, Helena totally does. She's had multiple costumes but they are all variations of the same thing and you can tell who the character is just by looking at her. None of that is present yet in the film's marketing. She has a crossbow and that's it.

Dinah at the very least has blonde hair, black leather jacket and gloves, and fishnets, all of which could make it into most of her costumes.

[Colossus1980]

Except I didn't bring up the MCU, another poster did and invoked it to try to tear apart the DCEU. That context matters.

Also, I'm not criticizing the MCU, I'm stating basic facts in how it functions. The MCU operates on the same temporal framework as any other studio, they may have a long term goal, but the individual details are subject to change.

But you are very vocal in your hatred for the MCU. If someone criticizes the DCEU, you have to tear down the MCU. Ascended never mentioned the MCU but you had to bring it up so you can tear it down. You do that quite frequently along with the same posters who hate the MCU.

[Pinsir]

No, what I'm claiming is that WB/DC struggle to pull off films with a single character, and it seems that juggling a multi-lead narrative is largely beyond them. Yes, the people behind the camera make all the difference but it's WB who put those people there. Look at WB's record. This isn't my bias, this is just how it is. Don't get me wrong, I like the solo films well enough, and I actually think MoS and WW are brilliant, far better than most of what we get from other superhero studios. But the group films? Have we actually gotten even one that was a unblemished success? No.

You're right that my post had no nuance to it. WB has left no room for nuance. What they've given us is a lackluster track record and a ton of movies they "plan" to make that never actually happen, actors leaving major roles, and writers and directors leaving major films. The last couple DCEU films have been solid, and I give them full credit for that. But just because Aquaman and Shazam weren't awful doesn't mean that the problems WB has suffered from are gone.

Even by going by your record though, is it wrong to say that you liked 4/7ths of the current DCEU line up? Is that not a good record? How many movies is it going to take for you to consider the DCEU to be on the right track? 6 out of 9 with the release of BoP and WW2?

By all accounts WB has been attempting to rectify what fans did not like about Zach Snyder's work, but it feels like your being overtly punishing. What your basically saying is that WB failed with BvS and instead of doubling down and by their allowing another creator to make changes, including recasts, and that's also bad. It genuinely feels punitive.

When did I mention the MCU here?

This isn't about the MCU. This is about WB/DC not being able to stick to anything. A shared universe requires consistency. WB has none. For example, in the DCEU Batman is an older, worn down hero who (for a time) lost his way. Except now he's not an older guy and if the movie ever does actually happen who knows how much of his previous DCEU history will be included? There's no Superman at all right now. Cyborg is gone completely too I believe. So how is a shared universe supposed to exist when an individual IP keeps getting shifted and moved around and taken away? I know you're a fan of the DCEU and that's great. I'm glad someone is happy with the product. But this studio is not building a sustainable shared experience, they're stumbling to create single, individual films and have already lost track of their initial plans and actors. The whole thing is poorly run. It has nothing to do with Marvel at all.

There aren't that many shared universes out there. So when someone talks about how shared universes are suppose to be I think we can be honest and say your making a direct comparison to the MCU.

Even if you weren't my points still stand, the consistency and forethought your ascribing to, let's admit it, the MCU, is over stated. Between Hulk 1 and Avengers the actor who played Hulk not only looks different, but appears to be a different race, Loki's scepter is an Infinity Stone now, even though it clearly wasn't in Avengers 1, Hawkeye and Black Widow were clearly being shipped together even though he had a wife, Thor 3 was clearly a functional reboot of the franchise, in Avengers 1 Cap is provided no reason to work and actually has his negative suspicions confirmed about them, yet in WS he's working for Shield...

Again, when I say these things, I'm not criticizing the MCU, I'm saying their are inconsistencies and retcons within the this shared universe because of course there would be. Some of these were obviously for the better too. Thor 3 got rid of most of the garbage that weighed down the previous films, new supporting cast, tonal and setting change, Thor's character changed too, and its much more beloved than any of the previous films.

I would go so far as to say shared universes don't require any consistency at all. No one would say Silver Age DC Comics isn't a shared universe, but there is absolutely no consistency between titles. If every comic book in the DC Silver Age line up was canon to each other, then there would be at least 3 Atlantises, the mantle of the earth would collapsed because of all the underground civilizations tunnelling through it and there would be a different alien invasion every day. The core of what a shared universe implies is that maybe once and a while Batman and Superman will team up. It doesn't require a long term plan at all.

[Arsenal]

If they weren’t gonna go the purple outfit route, I wish they went with her “Grayson” costume instead.

Don’t particularly like the aesthetic for the little bits we’ve seen so far but I’ll hold off until they put a proper trailer/teaser out before I decide how I feel about it.

[Frontier]

If they weren’t gonna go the purple outfit route, I wish they went with her “Grayson” costume instead.

Well, if they were going that far, then you'd think they would've gone for a darker-skinned actress...

[Stromberg]

If they weren’t gonna go the purple outfit route, I wish they went with her “Grayson” costume instead.

Don’t particularly like the aesthetic for the little bits we’ve seen so far but I’ll hold off until they put a proper trailer/teaser out before I decide how I feel about it.

Hey outfit is purple.

[Bloxer]

Even by going by your record though, is it wrong to say that you liked 4/7ths of the current DCEU line up? Is that not a good record? How many movies is it going to take for you to consider the DCEU to be on the right track? 6 out of 9 with the release of BoP and WW2?

By all accounts WB has been attempting to rectify what fans did not like about Zach Snyder's work, but it feels like your being overtly punishing. What your basically saying is that WB failed with BvS and instead of doubling down and by their allowing another creator to make changes, including recasts, and that's also bad. It genuinely feels punitive.



There aren't that many shared universes out there. So when someone talks about how shared universes are suppose to be I think we can be honest and say your making a direct comparison to the MCU.

Even if you weren't my points still stand, the consistency and forethought your ascribing to, let's admit it, the MCU, is over stated. Between Hulk 1 and Avengers the actor who played Hulk not only looks different, but appears to be a different race, Loki's scepter is an Infinity Stone now, even though it clearly wasn't in Avengers 1, Hawkeye and Black Widow were clearly being shipped together even though he had a wife, Thor 3 was clearly a functional reboot of the franchise, in Avengers 1 Cap is provided no reason to work and actually has his negative suspicions confirmed about them, yet in WS he's working for Shield...

Again, when I say these things, I'm not criticizing the MCU, I'm saying their are inconsistencies and retcons within the this shared universe because of course there would be. Some of these were obviously for the better too. Thor 3 got rid of most of the garbage that weighed down the previous films, new supporting cast, tonal and setting change, Thor's character changed too, and its much more beloved than any of the previous films.

I would go so far as to say shared universes don't require any consistency at all. No one would say Silver Age DC Comics isn't a shared universe, but there is absolutely no consistency between titles. If every comic book in the DC Silver Age line up was canon to each other, then there would be at least 3 Atlantises, the mantle of the earth would collapsed because of all the underground civilizations tunnelling through it and there would be a different alien invasion every day. The core of what a shared universe implies is that maybe once and a while Batman and Superman will team up. It doesn't require a long term plan at all.

Now you're both making excuses to justify yourself and grasping at straws.
An Actor being recast isn't an inconsistency nor is Black Widow and Hawkeye's relationship.
You are aware men and women can be friends right?

[Frontier]

Hey outfit is purple.

Is it? It mostly seems black outside the collar. Although some set pics have shown her in something more brightly purple but I'm not sure how well that will stand out in the actual movie.

I don't even get what the chain is for.

And is there a cross anywhere?

[Pinsir]

An Actor being recast isn't an inconsistency

I agree, which is why I didn't make the claim. This was a response to the claim that Batman and other DCEU recasts were a problem. I’m just applying the same logic elsewhere.

nor is Black Widow and Hawkeye's relationship.
You are aware men and women can be friends right?

I found this claim on a CBR article 15 Retcons in the CBR which showed up when I was looking for a reason why a poster claimed Loki's staff was an Infinity Stone. I think most people came away from Avengers thinking they were in a relationship and she even wears a piece of arrow jewellery in Winter Soldier too.

[Stromberg]

IMG_20190930_015600.jpg
But...but Jurnee doesn't look like Black Canary...Yeah, okay.