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  1. #46
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    The BOP have teamed up with unpredictable and zany characters before. It's not a completely alien concept.
    Look, I'm not against a team-up between Harley Quinn and the Birds of Prey in general. This is not what this is about. But from everything that comes out from the scuttlebutt, this is a team-up made to serve Harley Quinn's character first and only. If the Birds of Prey, including Babs, had been in their own decent movie first, that objection would evaporate. But that's not the context we are in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    So it has to just achieve what every ensemble movie in history not named Avengers/Justice League has achieved then? Also, Babs probably is an unseen voice as Oracle who puts together the team and reveals herself at the end, setting up for the Batgirl solo film.
    Which again would be a form of erasure. It was Oracle who created the team, and she has been one of its faces since the very first cover. And you can't compare this with earlier ensemble movies:

    • Justice League bombed, despite having had three of its characters established in prior movies
    • Suicide Squad was at best called a "hot mess"; in fact DC has a rather poor record of ensemble movies
    • Avengers, again, had four of its characters established in their own solo movies
    • The best comparison is arguably Guardians of the Galaxy, but they had a genius marketing effort in their trailers, and a true ensemble cast
    • Or to take an even earlier example, the first X-Men movie, where we were introduced to X-Men via Logan. But that was tied to Logan's journey of personal growth and self-awareness, and his relation to the X-Men is extremely well-established; Harley Quinn is not that character


    Again, we are getting signals that DC doesn't see this as an ensemble movie, but as Harley Quinn with Birds of Prey as contrast. That's doing a disservice to the Birds of Prey brand. I'd also argue that it can make movie Harley Quinn into a very fragmented character. Now, Harley Quinn can serve different roles and personalities, but doing so within the same film franchise seems odd; I can see Harley her a strong relation to both Gotham City Sirens and the Joker at the same time, and I can see her with a strong relation to both Birds of Prey and Gotham City Sirens. But I can't see a Harley Quinn that is both associated with the Birds of Prey and the Joker at the same time. But with lots of Joker movies coming up, that will also mean a lot of Harley Quinn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I don't know whether it's more sad or hilarious that WB is moving forward with a Supergirl movie instead of doing a new Superman film.
    I think a Supergirl movie makes tons of sense, especially if they want to give a soft introduction to a new Superman story, replacing the Snyderverse. I say give Kara a real chance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    It'll be cool to see what they do with Black Mask visually on-film, although I still think he would've fit more in a Gotham City Sirens film given the Catwoman connection.
    Agreed. A drug crime lord fits so much as an antagonist to both Catwoman and Poison Ivy. For Birds of Prey, he's just another replacable bad guy.

  2. #47
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I think a Supergirl movie makes tons of sense, especially if they want to give a soft introduction to a new Superman story, replacing the Snyderverse. I say give Kara a real chance.
    I mean, it's nothing against Kara, I love Supergirl, and I can see the idea behind course-correcting the franchise through something new, but I just kind of feel as though it's indicative of how much WB bungled Superman that they would have to do something like this when there's doubt as to whether we'll ever get another Superman movie in the foreseeable future.

  3. #48
    Amazing Member InfamousBG's Avatar
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    If Aquaman and Shazam do well (which I am praying they do) I am hoping DC will finally get on the right track.

    With Birds of Prey, Green Lantern Corps, Black Adam, Supergirl, Suicide Squad 2, Flash and Wonder Woman 2 in the works and hopefully coming in the next few years DC could do ok. It just all depends on how they do this whole new universe.

    Man of Steel 2, The Batman, Batgirl and Justice League 2 all need to get going as well.

    I have hope for the future of DC movies.
    DC: Batman, Detective Comics, The Flash, Superman, Adventure Comics, Justice League, Green Arrow, Aquaman, Hawkman
    MARVEL: Avengers, Daredevil, The Punisher, Amazing Spider-Man, Astonishing X-Men, X Men Gold, X Men Red, Captain America, Fantastic Four

    DC needs to bring back the original JSA
    .

  4. #49
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    All that had been said about BoP and Robbie's intentions with it is that she wants an R rated girl gang movie with a roster of diverse female characters. That's it. Where you all are getting that they're making it seem like the BoP are just there to support the star, Harley or that Robbie wants to make sure she's the center of attention or whatever, I have no idea. That's simply interpretation because nothing like that had been said.
    Yes, Sirens would be a more obvious choice, or more natural if you like, but that doesn't mean that this can't be great. If they want to introduce several more female heroes into the movie universe, more pretty to them.
    I just hope they don't screw up Black Canary by casting Vanessa Kirby.

  5. #50
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    All that has been said about BoP and Robbie's intentions with it is that she wants an R rated girl gang movie with a roster of diverse female characters. That's it. Where you all are getting that they're making it seem like the BoP are just there to support the star, Harley or that Robbie wants to make sure she's the center of attention or whatever, I have no idea. That's simply interpretation because nothing like that had been said.
    Yes, Sirens would be a more obvious choice, or more natural if you like, but that doesn't mean that this can't be great. If they want to introduce several more female heroes into the movie universe, more power to them.
    I just hope they don't screw up Black Canary by casting Vanessa Kirby.

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member Nite-Wing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stromberg View Post
    All that had been said about BoP and Robbie's intentions with it is that she wants an R rated girl gang movie with a roster of diverse female characters. That's it. Where you all are getting that they're making it seem like the BoP are just there to support the star, Harley or that Robbie wants to make sure she's the center of attention or whatever, I have no idea. That's simply interpretation because nothing like that had been said.
    Yes, Sirens would be a more obvious choice, or more natural if you like, but that doesn't mean that this can't be great. If they want to introduce several more female heroes into the movie universe, more pretty to them.
    I just hope they don't screw up Black Canary by casting Vanessa Kirby.
    Let's be realistic for a second
    Harley Quinn is the only thing selling this BOP movie right now. Margot Robbie is getting top billing and she is executive producer. The movie had to go forward with her choice of director and script.
    The only thing keeping this from being Harley Quinn and pals is Margot Robbie's insistence that Harley Quinn not get a standalone movie just about herself.

    Some people on here are overly negative though they would rather have nothing than get something that doesn't fit the "vision" they have exactly.
    I'd rather see a supergirl movie than get MOS 2 with Cavill trying to strong arm WB and hold his version of the character hostage. recast and move on same with affleck he's lost the passion and doesn't even seem to be capable of getting into shape for the role. No need to rush into movies that will be terrible

  7. #52
    Extraordinary Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    The BOP have teamed up with unpredictable and zany characters before. It's not a completely alien concept.
    They once teamed up with a supervillain duo who had previously broken both of Dinah's legs, held her captive, terrorized her, even going so far as to threaten her with rape at one point.

    Harley is tame by comparison.
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    --Lord Alfred Tennyson--

  8. #53
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    So Barbara Gordon is not only erased from the Birds of Prey, she is removed from Cassandra Cain's story also. Why am I not surprised?

    Barbara's story is one of the most meaningful and strongest within all of comics history. It deserves to be told properly, in full, and from her perspective.
    Cass is apparently 11-12 years old in this and too young to be Batgirl. Just because Babs isn't in this doesn't mean she won't be playing a part in the DCEU as Batgirl and/or possibly Oracle down the line in BOP sequels. She could even make a small cameo/mention in this.

    Cass is only being introduced in this story. A successful DCEU doesn't mean it will end here. There is plenty of time for the two to interact. And if they don't interact the exact same way as the comics, that doesn't mean its inherently bad. We read it the first time, it'd be boring to see the exact same arc put to the screen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Crown View Post
    About the title of this new thread...

    - "Course corrected" makes me shudder because Warner Bros thinking that DC movies needed a "course correction" was the reason why we got Geoff Johns in charge. And that worked SO WELL, right? (coughjusticeleaguecough)
    Look at the critical reception of three out of the four pre-JL movies.

    They definitely needed a course correction, and JL was fucked from jump street, so who even knows if that can count. Johns also contributed to the only successful DCEU film to date.

  9. #54
    Fantastic Member Thomas Crown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Look at the critical reception of three out of the four pre-JL movies.
    I'd rather look at the fact that the four pre-JL movies made over 3.1 billion at box office, despite a massive sabotage campaign from the media against three of them. Or the fact that all four had great home video sales.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    JL was fucked from jump street, so who even knows if that can count. Johns also contributed to the only successful DCEU film to date.
    Nope! JL was fine until Johns and Jon Berg decided to bring Joss Whedon to "fix" something that didn't need fixing. And what exactly were Johns' contributions to "Wonder Woman"? As far as I know, the people that deserve most credit for that movie's success are Patty Jenkins, Gal Gadot and Zack Snyder. From what I heard, Johns made just some last-minute rewrites to the script, especially in the third act. AKA, the part that most people criticize, even those who enjoyed the movie.
    Last edited by Thomas Crown; 08-09-2018 at 04:28 AM.
    "Longtime fans will read the book and bitch about it NO MATTER WHAT."
    - Grant Morrison

  10. #55
    Fantastic Member Thomas Crown's Avatar
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    Double post. Damn it!
    Last edited by Thomas Crown; 08-08-2018 at 05:31 PM.
    "Longtime fans will read the book and bitch about it NO MATTER WHAT."
    - Grant Morrison

  11. #56
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Cass is apparently 11-12 years old in this and too young to be Batgirl. Just because Babs isn't in this doesn't mean she won't be playing a part in the DCEU as Batgirl and/or possibly Oracle down the line in BOP sequels. She could even make a small cameo/mention in this.
    I mean, if she's depicted as capable as she is in the comics, then she could probably still be Batgirl, just the youngest Batgirl ever (I think she was 14-15 when she first started? She was pretty young as I recall).

    She is kind of the Damian of the Batgirls .
    Cass is only being introduced in this story. A successful DCEU doesn't mean it will end here. There is plenty of time for the two to interact. And if they don't interact the exact same way as the comics, that doesn't mean its inherently bad. We read it the first time, it'd be boring to see the exact same arc put to the screen.
    Considering the dearth of Cass in media in general, not to mention the dearth of any kind of relationship with Barbara in the comics right now or for the past several years, I think that would make it more necessary to incorporate something that was such a big part of both characters.

  12. #57
    Amazing Member InfamousBG's Avatar
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    What I am hoping they do with the Batman movie is...

    Keep using Affleck. Have the movie based in the present day and the past. Use a younger actor to play a younger Batman. Not too young though. Have the movie really show Batman as a detective back then and today. Focus on a year or so after Dick left to become Nightwing. Bring in Jason Todd. Use the Death in the Family story line (to a point). We dont need Red Hood now (even though I would love to see him). Bring in Penguin as the main villain. Have a Joker cameo here or there. Something along those lines.
    DC: Batman, Detective Comics, The Flash, Superman, Adventure Comics, Justice League, Green Arrow, Aquaman, Hawkman
    MARVEL: Avengers, Daredevil, The Punisher, Amazing Spider-Man, Astonishing X-Men, X Men Gold, X Men Red, Captain America, Fantastic Four

    DC needs to bring back the original JSA
    .

  13. #58

  14. #59
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Ben Affleck Is Still On Board ‘The Batman’ Movie As A Producer: https://pursuenews.com/ben-affleck-i...as-a-producer/

    The Flash Movie: Seth Grahame-Smith Gets A Writer Credit, Logan Writer Onboard: https://pursuenews.com/the-flash-mov...riter-onboard/

    Sources Say Warner Bros. Wants James Gunn Post-Disney Exit: https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/08...t-disney-exit/

  15. #60
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    Last edited by Beantownbrown; 08-09-2018 at 06:10 AM.

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