DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[Pinsir]

Did SS really do that much damage to DCEU's rep? It's still getting a sequel, still making Harley Quinn the focal point of the DCEU(I really don't understand the reasoning), talks of a Deadshot spinoff, talks of a Harley/Joker spinoff, and not to mention the boatload of money it made in spite of the bad reviews. FYI this film is not my favorite but man it still made money even with the critics savaging this movie.

If it did so much damage none of the above should be happening but it is or might.

SS actually has a pretty wide fan base. Its the kind of movie that critics love to hate, but most normal people like. It has a strong aesthetic which helped separate it from the rest of the super hero chaff and this is reflected in the fact that it won an oscar and the film's version of Harley Quinn is now a sex icon. JL was the most damaging DC film by far, if we went from WW to Aquaman the DC film franchise would have a much more positive vibe.

To people that care about the DCEU SS was problematic because it was our first non-Snyder film and it didn't match our expectations. We aren't MCU fans, we have higher expectations. Now that I'm more familiar with Ayer's work though, it really was expected. Paddy and Wan are good directors so were getting good movies. Zach Snyder is an acquired taste, I like MoS and BvS, but its clear there were going to be problems with him leading these projects.

[batnbreakfast]

SS actually has a pretty wide fan base. Its the kind of movie that critics love to hate, but most normal people like. It has a strong aesthetic which helped separate it from the rest of the super hero chaff and this is reflected in the fact that it won an oscar and the film's version of Harley Quinn is now a sex icon. JL was the most damaging DC film by far, if we went from WW to Aquaman the DC film franchise would have a much more positive vibe.

To people that care about the DCEU SS was problematic because it was our first non-Snyder film and it didn't match our expectations. We aren't MCU fans, we have higher expectations. Now that I'm more familiar with Ayer's work though, it really was expected. Paddy and Wan are good directors so were getting good movies. Zach Snyder is an acquired taste, I like MoS and BvS, but its clear there were going to be problems with him leading these projects.

Two things: SS was done much smarter in the late 80s (thank you, John Ostrander) and judged as a movie its pretty bad.

Still looking forward to the sequel, though. Hopefully it will be totally different and none of its characters will return. I don't hate SS because its different (New52 stuff onwards doesn't count because the John Ostrander series still holds up), I hate it because it fails in every way that counts for me. Terrible adaption, studio meddling, terrible villain, terrible Joker blabla

Hope we get a nice Secret Six adaption on top

[kjn]

SS actually has a pretty wide fan base. Its the kind of movie that critics love to hate, but most normal people like. It has a strong aesthetic which helped separate it from the rest of the super hero chaff and this is reflected in the fact that it won an oscar and the film's version of Harley Quinn is now a sex icon. JL was the most damaging DC film by far, if we went from WW to Aquaman the DC film franchise would have a much more positive vibe.

I'd rather say JL didn't really damage the DC brand at the movies, it was instead the movie that showed how deeply damaged the franchise was. It should have really been apparent with Wonder Woman too, given its poor opening weekend.

From what I can tell, Suicide Squad was basically a Bay-style Transformers movie. Fine if you want lots of actions and explosions with some fan service thrown in. But it lacked any kind of cohesive story or message. And it didn't get good reviews or good word-of-mouth. A 67% drop in revenue from the first weekend to the second really says it all.

Also, Harley Quinn is not likely to be the focal point of the future DCEU. That spot will belong to Wonder Woman. The reason we do not hear about a gazillion Wonder Woman projects is because WB immediately sat down with Patty Jenkins and worked out how and when to produce the next one.

[Pinsir]

Two things: SS was done much smarter in the late 80s (thank you, John Ostrander) and judged as a movie its pretty bad.

Still looking forward to the sequel, though. Hopefully it will be totally different and none of its characters will return. I don't hate SS because its different (New52 stuff onwards doesn't count because the John Ostrander series still holds up), I hate it because it fails in every way that counts for me. Terrible adaption, studio meddling, terrible villain, terrible Joker blabla

Hope we get a nice Secret Six adaption on top

I didn't say it was a good movie though, simply that it isn't as negatively received among the public as some people would have you think. You can say it doesn't emulate the comics well at all and therefore it fails, but, most CBM are poor representations of their source material.

I'd rather say JL didn't really damage the DC brand at the movies, it was instead the movie that showed how deeply damaged the franchise was. It should have really been apparent with Wonder Woman too, given its poor opening weekend.

From what I can tell, Suicide Squad was basically a Bay-style Transformers movie. Fine if you want lots of actions and explosions with some fan service thrown in. But it lacked any kind of cohesive story or message. And it didn't get good reviews or good word-of-mouth. A 67% drop in revenue from the first weekend to the second really says it all.

Also, Harley Quinn is not likely to be the focal point of the future DCEU. That spot will belong to Wonder Woman. The reason we do not hear about a gazillion Wonder Woman projects is because WB immediately sat down with Patty Jenkins and worked out how and when to produce the next one.

I didn't say Harley Quinn was the focal point of the DCEU, just that the film made the character a pop icon. Also quoting percentage drops isn't an indicator if people like or dislike the film. The movie is on Netflix, anyone that was inclined to see the film but didn't see it in theatres has viewed it now and now has their own opinion.

[HandofPrometheus]

I disagree with SS being loved by the general public. It's regarded as a terrible movie and people just simply act like it doesn't exist.

[Frontier]

I disagree with SS being loved by the general public. It's regarded as a terrible movie and people just simply act like it doesn't exist.

The only thing about SS that people really loved almost universally was Margot Robbie's Harley and we can already see where that's leading.

[kjn]

I didn't say Harley Quinn was the focal point of the DCEU, just that the film made the character a pop icon. Also quoting percentage drops isn't an indicator if people like or dislike the film. The movie is on Netflix, anyone that was inclined to see the film but didn't see it in theatres has viewed it now and now has their own opinion.

Sorry, the "focal point" was a reference to Colossus1980's post on the previous page; should have been more careful with quoting and references.

Percentage drops are not the sole indicator about how well-received a film is, but I think it's an interesting indicator on strength of word-of-mouth compared to the initial marketing campaign. The Marvel movies usually see a 55–60% drop in the second weekend in the US market (with Black Panther, the first Avengers movie, and the first Iron Man as outliers with lesser drops). If we take that as the result of an extensive marketing campaign and high trust in the Marvel brand, what do we get for DC?

Wonder Woman had a drop of 43%, outperforming all Marvel films using this metric. That indicates that WB's marketing wasn't good enough, and that the film had to earn its dollars via good reviews and good word of mouth. Meanwhile, all the other DC films but Justice League had drops in the 65–70% range (Justice League was at 56%, i.e. the same ballpark as the main Marvel movies).

(Aquaman will put huge wrenches into doing a similar analysis, due to the extensive pre-screenings, the short relative season, and the ferocious competition.)

[HandofPrometheus]

The only thing about SS that people really loved almost universally was Margot Robbie's Harley and we can already see where that's leading.

Harley definitely benefited from the movie. I think that's why most people watched it anyway to see her.

[Last Son of Krypton]

BTS of Mera and the Trench:

[Nite-Wing]

I disagree with SS being loved by the general public. It's regarded as a terrible movie and people just simply act like it doesn't exist.

If it was so hated it wouldn't be
A. getting a sequel or spinoffs for that matter
B. won an oscar
C. made more money than Justice League(which apparently the public did like wtf)

Percentage drops are not the sole indicator about how well-received a film is, but I think it's an interesting indicator on strength of word-of-mouth compared to the initial marketing campaign. The Marvel movies usually see a 55–60% drop in the second weekend in the US market (with Black Panther, the first Avengers movie, and the first Iron Man as outliers with lesser drops). If we take that as the result of an extensive marketing campaign and high trust in the Marvel brand, what do we get for DC?

Wonder Woman had a drop of 43%, outperforming all Marvel films using this metric. That indicates that WB's marketing wasn't good enough, and that the film had to earn its dollars via good reviews and good word of mouth. Meanwhile, all the other DC films but Justice League had drops in the 65–70% range (Justice League was at 56%, i.e. the same ballpark as the main Marvel movies).

(Aquaman will put huge wrenches into doing a similar analysis, due to the extensive pre-screenings, the short relative season, and the ferocious competition.)

another point to remember is those releases WW and JL and most of the other DCEU were planned out to be around little competition.
I mean if planned accordingly you have maybe 3 weeks at #1 if its a dead month or 2 if you have a little breathing room before another movie opens.

WB/DC don't have that luxury anymore and you'll see that with Aquaman
movie studios aren't really afraid of going up against their superhero offerings anymore. Bond just moved its date close to BOP in 2020 so its likely that movie will underperform too unless it moves up or back

[Beantownbrown]

‘Aquaman’ Has Screened: Here are the First Reactions: https://talkiesnetwork.com/2018/11/2...rst-reactions/

https://ew.com/movies/2018/11/26/aqu...F-37AC4744363C
Aquaman: Early reviews gush that it's a 'big, fun, wild ride'

Reviews are good but there aren't many mentions of Amber Heard. Doesn't seem like she was impressive.

[HandofPrometheus]

If it was so hated it wouldn't be
A. getting a sequel or spinoffs for that matter
B. won an oscar
C. made more money than Justice League(which apparently the public did like wtf)

Not true. Sequels have been made for movies that wasn't loved by the public. Fricking Gnomeo and Juliet got a sequel which NO ONE asked for.

It won an Oscar for its makeup not its narrative quality. Oscars have been nominating bad movies for years if it had good effects music etc.

It making more money than JL isn't surprising because SS was an unknown property that had people curios while people already made up their mind on the DCEU when JL came out.

[Pinsir]

Sorry, the "focal point" was a reference to Colossus1980's post on the previous page; should have been more careful with quoting and references.

Percentage drops are not the sole indicator about how well-received a film is, but I think it's an interesting indicator on strength of word-of-mouth compared to the initial marketing campaign. The Marvel movies usually see a 55–60% drop in the second weekend in the US market (with Black Panther, the first Avengers movie, and the first Iron Man as outliers with lesser drops). If we take that as the result of an extensive marketing campaign and high trust in the Marvel brand, what do we get for DC?

Wonder Woman had a drop of 43%, outperforming all Marvel films using this metric. That indicates that WB's marketing wasn't good enough, and that the film had to earn its dollars via good reviews and good word of mouth. Meanwhile, all the other DC films but Justice League had drops in the 65–70% range (Justice League was at 56%, i.e. the same ballpark as the main Marvel movies).

(Aquaman will put huge wrenches into doing a similar analysis, due to the extensive pre-screenings, the short relative season, and the ferocious competition.)

I would argue that it isn't a metric at all for determining how the public views a film at all. I don't ever plan to see Infinity War because I've been burned to often by MCU films and I don't really care for the universe, characters, tone, etc. I suspect its a bad movie, but no one should consider my perspective as a review of the film. I mean, whenever you choose to not watch a film in theatre are you saying you hate it? In the same regards, if you are counted among those who watched the film, does that mean you should be counted among those who like the film?

[byrd156]

If it was so hated it wouldn't be
A. getting a sequel or spinoffs for that matter
B. won an oscar
C. made more money than Justice League(which apparently the public did like wtf)



another point to remember is those releases WW and JL and most of the other DCEU were planned out to be around little competition.
I mean if planned accordingly you have maybe 3 weeks at #1 if its a dead month or 2 if you have a little breathing room before another movie opens.

WB/DC don't have that luxury anymore and you'll see that with Aquaman
movie studios aren't really afraid of going up against their superhero offerings anymore. Bond just moved its date close to BOP in 2020 so its likely that movie will underperform too unless it moves up or back

Oscars have nothing to do with popularity, they are actually mostly paid for if you didn't know that.

[Nite-Wing]

Not true. Sequels have been made for movies that wasn't loved by the public. Fricking Gnomeo and Juliet got a sequel which NO ONE asked for.

It won an Oscar for its makeup not its narrative quality. Oscars have been nominating bad movies for years if it had good effects music etc.

It making more money than JL isn't surprising because SS was an unknown property that had people curios while people already made up their mind on the DCEU when JL came out.

Justice League isn't getting a sequel and its very likely that MOS2 isn't happening,The Batman is probably in development hell until they cast a new batman. The ability to make money is the primary reason any of these comic book movies are being made. It has nothing to do with what's considered good or bad. Among all the DC properties they currently have off the ground the most promising to do that are WW and Joker imo
Even then you have to consider the real possibility WB might start prioritizing cheap movies which means smaller budgets and less sfx which means you will see less WW and more Harley Quinn going forward

Its very hard to win an oscar period nowadays especially among the technical categories. The fact that a movie that was so badly regarded critically is nominated because someone recognizes the good in one aspect of the movie is an achievement. And considering its the only DCEU movie with an oscar(and the only one to be nominated for that matter) that puts it in a class of its own.

It made more money than Justice League because it had bigger actors attached to it, with bigger followings on social media, and a much bigger impact in terms of hype. Justice League had bigger characters but ultimately none of them prove interesting for a number of reasons.