DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[Vakanai]

To put it in perspective - I loved Kick-Ass, Super, Defendor, Deadpool, and I wish that (minus the R rating) there were a handful of more films like those.

[I'm a Fish]

The street level characters would work fine (if not better) in lower budget movies, but the JL tier characters are going to look like underwhelming dogshit if the budget isn't at their level.

Arguably in both her movies, Wonder Woman's budget either wasn't at or wasn't applied in the areas a character of her level requires, leading to the action being underwhelming (this was more of a problem in the second film than the first, aside from Ares). I can't imagine the budget going lower working for her at all.

Wonder Woman's bad CGI in the 3rd act wasn't due to budget, but time constraint. WB forced that fight to be dragged out much longer than it originally was at the last minute, hence some terrible CGI. Same thing happened to Black Panther in the 3rd act.

Now I'm wondering if that happened with Black Widow too since I noticed the CGI was also really bad in the 3rd act...

[Robotman]

So… do you think DC is doing fine or not because your posts conflict a little lol. AT&T were indeed the ones who pushed for day and date on HBO Max, but it remains to be seen how Zaslov feels about things. I think some shake up in inevitable, people will leave or get fired, some projects will be cancelled or simply die on the vine. Feel confident Blue Beetle will get made though.

Shang Chi’s success is definitely a good thing for projects like Blue Beetle. Even after Black Panther superhero movies with a POC lead character are still considered “risky”.

[The Darknight Detective]

Yes, but I'm not really talking about reducing their budgets. What I'd like to see is more the addition of lower budgeted movies. Not every superhero needs a budget that big or needs to look that good. Like....I feel like these budgets encourage the "city/world needs saving" big CGI apocalyptic battle type films, and I miss having smaller stories in the mix.

I don't disagree with you for those reasons, but if budgets are being cut because of a lack of revenue, that's another story.

[chamber-music]

Nightwing could work on a mid level 'John Wick' type budget.

I don't care about the Marvel vs DC stuff. I simply want to be entertained. I don't even have to be a preexisting fan of the characters, if the movie is good then I will see it.

[SiegePerilous02]

That's kind of what I mean though - the lower powered guys. The street levelers. It is getting a bit too big, like gods upon gods fighting gods in big massive cgi spectacles. Those are good, but we've moved a little too much in that direction that there's a lack of the smaller tier stuff.

I think with DC though most of their universe requires spectacle to work. Of their major IPs, the Bat-verse and the Arrows are the ones that would take up most of the street level area. Wonder Woman, Superman, the GLs, etc all need really big spectacle at least part of the time to be true to themselves, and even more obscure potential film IPs like Amethyst or Warlord would need some CGI.

Wonder Woman's bad CGI in the 3rd act wasn't due to budget, but time constraint. WB forced that fight to be dragged out much longer than it originally was at the last minute, hence some terrible CGI. Same thing happened to Black Panther in the 3rd act.

Now I'm wondering if that happened with Black Widow too since I noticed the CGI was also really bad in the 3rd act...

There is also that. I never know the specifics of the budgets, just what is in front of me with the final product. Regardless of the reason, Ares definitely needed some work and Cheetah didn't look great in some spots (though I feel she wasn't as bad as people make it out, at least not any worse than the rest of the CGI in that movie).

Nightwing could work on a mid level 'John Wick' type budget.

Nightwing running a gauntlet of Fist of Cain members John Wick style is my ideal Nightwing movie.
Maybe with Deathstroke as the final boss.

[Vakanai]

I think with DC though most of their universe requires spectacle to work. Of their major IPs, the Bat-verse and the Arrows are the ones that would take up most of the street level area. Wonder Woman, Superman, the GLs, etc all need really big spectacle at least part of the time to be true to themselves, and even more obscure potential film IPs like Amethyst or Warlord would need some CGI.

Well yes and no - yes they require CGI to depict their superpowers, but that's the thing - in the comic books, not every story is a huge superpower spectacular, even for those heroes. I'm not saying no CGI I'm saying they don't need the big CGI spectacles, the big fight scene extravaganzas. Even for GLs, Superman, Wonder Woman not every story ends that way. You could still have CGI superpowers, still have it look good, but just dial back on the world ending/saving super fights. Smaller fights, lower scale stakes, but still show off their powers and dazzling CGI, just not holy fucking hell bright colorful on every centimeter of the screen spectacle. The CW is kind of a bad example cause trash writing, but there's plenty of episodes where the heroes use their power and look good but it doesn't devolve into a spectacular fight. The stakes don't always need to be world ending. Yes, some heroes, some movies should. But there's got to be some characters and some stories that could work and be successful in a lower stakes more personal movie.

There's a world of mid level guys and gals between Batman and Superman types. Black Lightning could work in this space, Animal Man could work in this space, Plasticman could work in this space. Still need CGI to show off their powers, but doesn't need the city destruction, lasers everywhere, hordes of cgi cannon fodder, high stakes level. There's a happy medium somewhere that we're not getting - and honestly, looks like we never will.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Interview: Leslie Grace Talks 'Batgirl' and Getting 'Rough and Tough' to Play Barbara Gordon: https://www.et***********/leslie-gra...clusive-171571

It's on Etonline but the link gets "censored" by CBR for some reason.

[Frontier]

Interview: Leslie Grace Talks 'Batgirl' and Getting 'Rough and Tough' to Play Barbara Gordon: https://www.et***********/leslie-gra...clusive-171571

It's on Etonline but the link gets "censored" by CBR for some reason.

I appreciate her enthusiasm, and she lists some prime Barbara Gordon traits .

[Vakanai]

I appreciate her enthusiasm, and she lists some prime Barbara Gordon traits .

Was basically going to say the same thing. I've not seen In The Heights, and honestly never will (nothing against it, just not my genre). So I've never seen this actress and therefore have absolutely no clue if her casting is good news or bad news - she's just a complete unknown to me so it's a mystery. I'm hoping for the best, fearing the worst, expecting something between the two. However her absolute enthusiasm and that she's done the research puts me at ease. Of course that's no indicator that the movie will turn out well, so much of it isn't even up to her but the director and producers and script writer and such. But in the here and now, her enthusiasm at least generates cautious optimism. She seems likeable, and that at the very least is reassuring that some of that likeability will translate on the screen.

[Alpha]

You know what Zatanna could actually be a small budget movie, or a really expensive one, and both avenues would still make for great entertainment.


Anyway, I just had a though today that seems kind of obvious but I haven't seen anyone discuss. Hawkman is probably gonna be Black Adam's nemesis in the new movie. The whole idea is Black Adam started a slave rebellion in Ancient Egypt, and Carter Hall's first life was that of a Prince. Black Adam's rebellion must have been against Katar Hol's reign.

Black Adam awakening in the present must be in tandem with Carter regaining his memories of the past and becoming a hero against Black Adam, only to be thwarted by the massive power of Adam. I'm guessing Doctor Fate was the one that imprisioned Black Adam with the help of Hawkman.

[John Venus]

Wonder Woman's bad CGI in the 3rd act wasn't due to budget, but time constraint. WB forced that fight to be dragged out much longer than it originally was at the last minute, hence some terrible CGI. Same thing happened to Black Panther in the 3rd act.

Now I'm wondering if that happened with Black Widow too since I noticed the CGI was also really bad in the 3rd act...

Did not know that about WW. For BP, I heard that the reason was that they had very little time to finish the CGI hence why it didn't look good at the end; they had no time to finish it.

You know what Zatanna could actually be a small budget movie, or a really expensive one, and both avenues would still make for great entertainment.


Anyway, I just had a though today that seems kind of obvious but I haven't seen anyone discuss. Hawkman is probably gonna be Black Adam's nemesis in the new movie. The whole idea is Black Adam started a slave rebellion in Ancient Egypt, and Carter Hall's first life was that of a Prince. Black Adam's rebellion must have been against Katar Hol's reign.

Black Adam awakening in the present must be in tandem with Carter regaining his memories of the past and becoming a hero against Black Adam, only to be thwarted by the massive power of Adam. I'm guessing Doctor Fate was the one that imprisioned Black Adam with the help of Hawkman.

Zatanna should really be a live action series.

Hawkman was the chairman of the JSA in the Johns JSA which this movie is drawing inspiration from. So he probably will be the main guy on the JSA side. But I don't think making Hawkman an ex-slave master will do any good for the character or the good guys side in general.

The teaser already confirms that Black Adam is from Khandaq and most likely the Wizard Shazam was the one who imprisoned him just like in the comics. Hawkman and Dr Fate are also the only ones who can believably deliver exposition on Black Adam and understand his threat level once he returns since Hawkman in his previous life and Nabu probably fought him.

Also, Hawkman was known as 'Khufu' during his life as an Egyptian Pharoh.

[Alpha]

I mean, if Hawkman was a prince in ancient Egypt then isn't slavery baked in?

And I don't see why Black Adam being from Khandaq would mean he wouldn't take his slave rebellion to Egypt.

And notice thay in the trailer Black Adam says they imprisoned him. It wasn't just the Wizard Shazam

[John Venus]

Slavery in Egypt wasn't the same chattel slavery that was practiced in America and Europe.

All we know is that Adam is based in Khandaq. He may have warred with Egypt but we won't know until we get more details and/or until the movie comes out. The 'they' could refer to Shazam and the Khandaq as a whole. It would be logical to include Nabu to tie into Fate but we'll have to wait and see.

[I'm a Fish]

Did not know that about WW. For BP, I heard that the reason was that they had very little time to finish the CGI hence why it didn't look good at the end; they had no time to finish it.

Yeah, actually the original, original final fight was going to have Ares turn into a giant being made of pure energy (akin to a solar flare, described by an artist) with a body composed of tanks/planes/cars ect. From my understanding (I could definitely be mistaken here, though) that was cut out, a choice made by Jenkins herself, and Ares was never going to have an "armored form" and stay a more range focused fighter. Then at the last minute, WB wanted longer fight scene and made her change the ending, hence why the CGI and even Ares dialogue become bad. She never says what the original ending was and I can't find any artwork on it, but someone mentioned it was more character focused so it could have been closer to the Gods and Mortals ending where Diana uses the lasso but, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ can't find anything.

I remember with Black Panther the VFX only had 3 weeks to do the entire final fight scene between T'challa and Killmonger. I don't remember if that's because they were just tight on time or if they wanted to redo the fight.