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  1. #8266
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    What differs is that the MCU emulated and perfected what Whedon did, with one film being the capstone of Phase 1 and Age of Ultron being a medicare letdown except what he did in those films has forever changed the MCU, this is the opposite with Snyder's DCEU films. Snyder's movies were controversial, but they never reached the positive heights Whedon got. Discussion and debate aren't all good when it's about whether the characters you're adapting are monsters rather than heroes, with Whedon there's not much talk since everyone mostly agrees it's great and that the Russo's perfected what he did to another level and had more movies to talk about they didn't simply stop. Age of Ultron has discussions and people don't like many things in it, but it's really abandoned as much as he moved on and others took up his torch creatively while Snyder's was distanced from almost immediately. For example, the Batman in Suicide Squad is not the Batman we saw in B vs S, they retconned him into regular Batman and haven't looked back. His aesthetic has been left behind by every movie since Justice League. Discussion really isn't great if most of it is about how bad it is. Whedon wasn't abandoned, Snyder was.
    This isn't how film criticism works though. Citizen Kane isn't held up as a great film because people said it was great and no one ever talked about the film again. Its held up as a great film because it inspires conversation and has done so for multiple generations now. This is the issue I have with how the MCU is discussed, how often does one say "I watched Ant-Man 2 yesterday, I liked it" and that's it in terms of actual dialogue regarding the film's content. Most MCU discussions tend to devolve into topics regarding how a film will affect future MCU films (DCEU fans do this as well, but not anywhere near the same extent).

    I don't know how you can claim Snyder was abandoned when his fanbase successfully petitioned for his work can be completed. If you're a fan of Avengers, you should be a fan of Joss Whedon, but that doesn't seem to be the case. The MCU fandom seems perfectly content to never have Joss Whedon touch another MCU production, which is strange.

    I also don't get what you mean when the Russo brothers 'perfected' Joss Whedon's work (I can say a lot by the way, about your word choice. I don't even think Citizen Kane stans throw out the 'p' word that often). The Russo brothers errata-ed huge portions of Joss Whedon's character building in Winter Soldier;

    >>>> Why is Captain America a member of SHIELD in WS, when he refused to become a member in Avengers and was provided every reason not to join in Avengers? Hording hydra tech, SHIELD trying to nuke New York, I think there were some other reasons too
    >>>> Why did the Russo brother's abandon Joss Whedon's characterization of SHIELD? They were clearly based upon conspiracy theories about 'global elites' controlling the world as evinced by their callous decision to NUKE New York City. In WS, the 'illuminati' board members are treated like benevolent CEOS who've always tried to do right, even though they should clearly be arrested.
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  2. #8267
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    If it feels like a corporate product rather than something done with passion, perspective and dedication of a person. It's hollow. Many Mcu movies are that, with few exceptions. I would take Snyder's superman movies over a massive amount of those.
    To each their own, but a lot of people love the MCU, and I always got the sense that there was passion and dedication in these movies, even if the themes are never deep and never stray far from action comedy.

  3. #8268
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    this was from back in 2017, he talks about the booyah catch phrase, briefly mentions he doesn't want his Cyborg to say it in the first film he's in to differentiate from the cartoon version.
    Surprised he apparently made a big stink about it though, going by this exchange alone it doesn't sound like he felt all that strongly about it, but who knows?
    On what do you base that Fisher made a "big stink" about booyah?
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  4. #8269
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    Justice League is no Island of Dr Moreau or Apocalypse Now. There's no need for a documentary about a movie that would be crappy in any of its versions. Its like fans going nuts about the best of the Transformers movies and demanding them to be recut and add a documentary about behind the scenes.
    There's so much better stuff to rewatch or look forward to and no need for Whedon's or Snyder's movies/shows.
    It doesn't need to be a good film in order for the behind the scenes drama to be trashy entertainment/enlightening.
    It is bound to be more interesting than either version of the film.

  5. #8270
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    This isn't how film criticism works though. Citizen Kane isn't held up as a great film because people said it was great and no one ever talked about the film again. Its held up as a great film because it inspires conversation and has done so for multiple generations now.
    True, though like many classic films we esteem today, it had mixed reviews 80 years ago.
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  6. #8271
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    Justice League is no Island of Dr Moreau or Apocalypse Now. There's no need for a documentary about a movie that would be crappy in any of its versions. Its like fans going nuts about the best of the Transformers movies and demanding them to be recut and add a documentary about behind the scenes.
    There's so much better stuff to rewatch or look forward to and no need for Whedon's or Snyder's movies/shows.
    Because not everyone wants to watch critically acclaimed dramas or "better" cinema? Sometimes we just want mindless entertainment? I literally slept through The Godfather I was bored so much, and I'm one of the rare few who enjoyed Catwoman. There's a place for "bad" entertainment, we don't all need to watch the Apocalypse Nows of the world. I mean Sharknado has sequels.

  7. #8272

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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    On what do you base that Fisher made a "big stink" about booyah?
    Jon Berg said he was upset about it. Or at least that he was upset about it. I know no more than anyone else does, but that video I posted supports that he was at least on some level against using the catchphrase.
    Like I implied doesn't really mean a whole lot, we don't know the extent to which he was upset, and it does not rule out there being more serious issues on set.

  8. #8273
    Extraordinary Member Johnny's Avatar
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    All I can say about this whole mess is that however they changed the movie, Cyborg was my favorite character in it and I sincerely hope Fisher gets to play him again. I say this as someone who hasn't seen Doom Patrol yet so my favorite live-action Vic Stone is still Ray Fisher.

  9. #8274
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    When it comes to the "Booyah" thing, it's not from Fisher, but from Berg, who seems to be set to be on Whedon's side here.

    Here I'm reminded of Eugene Brave Rock in Wonder Woman. He didn't like being called "Chief" in the movie, but he and Patty Jenkins sat down, talked it through, and made sure that Brave Rock felt comfortable with his role in the movie. I have no idea what happened here in Justice League, but I can easily see that Fisher was upset not so much because of "Booyah" but because he talked to someone about it, and wasn't taken seriously.

    I have no idea on what happened here, but the way I read Berg's comment it is that he is trying to undermine Fisher's credibility here.
    I could totally see that happening.

  10. #8275
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    Jon Berg said he was upset about it. Or at least that he was upset about it. I know no more than anyone else does, but that video I posted supports that he was at least on some level against using the catchphrase.
    Like I implied doesn't really mean a whole lot, we don't know the extent to which he was upset, and it does not rule out there being more serious issues on set.
    Being upset doesn't imply making a "big stink", and what we have here is Jon Berg's interpretation of the event. I don't see Berg as an impartial witness here.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  11. #8276

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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Being upset doesn't imply making a "big stink", and what we have here is Jon Berg's interpretation of the event. I don't see Berg as an impartial witness here.
    never said I spoke for him or that I believed him, I know no more than anyone else, that's why I wrote "apparently" in my initial comment on the subject. As for him being not being an impartial witness, we all already know that.

  12. #8277
    Extraordinary Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Johns is only considered a "bad" Batman writer because he doesn't feel the need to kiss his ass like a lot of other writers do.
    Eh.


  13. #8278
    Incredible Member Drako's Avatar
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    The actress who played Vic's mom is backing up Ray Fisher comments.

    https://twitter.com/Karen_Bryson/sta...94046337671168

  14. #8279
    Incredible Member Drako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drako View Post
    The actress who played Vic's mom is backing up Ray Fisher comments.

    https://twitter.com/Karen_Bryson/sta...94046337671168
    Edit:
    Nevermind, she wasn't part of the reshoots.

    https://i.redd.it/uvu1v06yji851.jpg


  15. #8280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Because not everyone wants to watch critically acclaimed dramas or "better" cinema? Sometimes we just want mindless entertainment? I literally slept through The Godfather I was bored so much, and I'm one of the rare few who enjoyed Catwoman. There's a place for "bad" entertainment, we don't all need to watch the Apocalypse Nows of the world. I mean Sharknado has sequels.
    I also enjoyed Catwoman. I love watching bad comic book movies. I also enjoyed The Spirit and all the FF movies(used to dislike them but I’ve come around on them).


    And Jonah Hex is awesome.
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