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  1. #7336
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Yeah, they are both equally deserving, but your point seems to be less "I like Oracle" and more "we need a disabled hero", to which I say why does it have to be Babs, who has many fans who just want to see her having fun and kicking it as Batgirl? Can't someone else be the disabled Oracle type hero?
    Babs is the most prominent and the most popular though, at least for fans.

    I agree that I'd be fine with just Batgirl though. It's ok to have that preference for her and the justification doesn't have to go beyond that. Some just like her better that way. But I can also see the argument that both her identities deserve representation in films, and that Oracle has a niche that Batgirl doesn't.

  2. #7337
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Babs is the most prominent and the most popular though, at least for fans.

    I agree that I'd be fine with just Batgirl though. It's ok to have that preference for her and the justification doesn't have to go beyond that. Some just like her better that way. But I can also see the argument that both her identities deserve representation in films, and that Oracle has a niche that Batgirl doesn't.
    I'd still rather have Babs be Batgirl and not go through the whole crippled into Oracle story arc in film. But like you said, it's just my preference (got nothing against Oracle either, just prefer her as Batgirl).

  3. #7338
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Yeah, they are both equally deserving, but your point seems to be less "I like Oracle" and more "we need a disabled hero", to which I say why does it have to be Babs, who has many fans who just want to see her having fun and kicking it as Batgirl? Can't someone else be the disabled Oracle type hero?
    Certainly. But the Oracle story is one of the top stories that DC has. It breaches the DC universe and skewers the entire superhero meta-narrative.

    And Babs's Oracle shoes are mighty large shoes to fill, both in-story and out-of-story.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  4. #7339
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Certainly. But the Oracle story is one of the top stories that DC has. It breaches the DC universe and skewers the entire superhero meta-narrative.

    And Babs's Oracle shoes are mighty large shoes to fill, both in-story and out-of-story.
    Not really. There isn't an Oracle "story" really. Oracle is a character and a great take on said character, but there's no great "This is the classic story where she becomes Oracle!" There's no great Oracle Year One story, there's just great runs. And something that breaches the DC universe and meta-narrative? That's just a messy and unsatisfying movie. You aren't imagining an Oracle movie now are you, you're picturing a 10 episode Netflix or HBO series.

    And just because those are some big wheels to fill doesn't mean someone else can't fill them.

  5. #7340
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Not really. There isn't an Oracle "story" really. Oracle is a character and a great take on said character, but there's no great "This is the classic story where she becomes Oracle!" There's no great Oracle Year One story, there's just great runs. And something that breaches the DC universe and meta-narrative? That's just a messy and unsatisfying movie. You aren't imagining an Oracle movie now are you, you're picturing a 10 episode Netflix or HBO series.
    You're both right and wrong here.

    Oracle's story wasn't written as much as it emerged. There is no single run that tells it, instead it is built on decisions, observations, and storytelling from lots of creators over a long time: Moore, Ostrander, Yale, Gorfinkel, Dixon, and Simone were all adding their own bits and pieces to it.

    You're correct in that it would require more than a movie to tell, but three movies should certainly be feasible to tell Batgirl: Year One, TKJ from Babs's point of view (similar to how JMS did in Ladies' Night), Oracle: Year One (Born of Hope), and Birds of Prey. It'd require the right creators, but I think it's eminently feasible.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  6. #7341
    Astonishing Member WillieMorgan's Avatar
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    After it's third weekend Birds Of Prey's box office total is $173.7 million.

    (Assuming Box Office Mojo is correct. It's sucker-punched me before.)

    This film won't break even now. You'll see Harley Quinn again in Gunn's Suicide Squad film but the other Birds? I highly doubt it.
    "I don't stand for anything. I just crusade against everything I don't stand for."

  7. #7342
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillieMorgan View Post
    After it's third weekend Birds Of Prey's box office total is $173.7 million.

    (Assuming Box Office Mojo is correct. It's sucker-punched me before.)

    This film won't break even now. You'll see Harley Quinn again in Gunn's Suicide Squad film but the other Birds? I highly doubt it.
    That's a shame. I wasn't a big fan of the approach although it seemed to work critically, but while I'm sure Black Canary will bounce back I hope Huntress finds a new opportunity in media in the future. Hopefully this doesn't impact other female-led Superhero movies.

    On the positive side, this reduces the chances of this movie having any kind of impact on Cassandra Cain.

  8. #7343
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    I didn’t love Birds Of Prey but I’m sad to see it fail like this, and I hope the movie can have a second life on home video. It’s an certainly enjoyable for me, even if it plays like an inferior version of the much, much, better Harley Quinn show which I highly recommend people who haven’t seen the show, but have seen BOP give it a watch. It’s probably one of the best animated superhero shows going on.
    "I love mankind...it's people I can't stand!!"

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  9. #7344
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus Arkham View Post
    I didn’t love Birds Of Prey but I’m sad to see it fail like this, and I hope the movie can have a second life on home video. It’s an certainly enjoyable for me, even if it plays like an inferior version of the much, much, better Harley Quinn show which I highly recommend people who haven’t seen the show, but have seen BOP give it a watch. It’s probably one of the best animated superhero shows going on.
    Admittedly it doesn't have much competition.

  10. #7345
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Also I'm not sure if everyone will shell out the bucks for a subscription service for one show, even if they cancel it after finishing it.

  11. #7346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Admittedly it doesn't have much competition.
    That’s true, perhaps I should’ve said “one of the best superhero shows ever”(which it is!).
    "I love mankind...it's people I can't stand!!"

    - Charles Schultz.

  12. #7347
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skullkid View Post
    Yes helping one person definitely negates all the other terrible things she's done and been complicit in.
    I disagree, one person doing a good thing doesn't negate all the terrible things they have done.
    Want to read Wonder Woman stories, but don't know where to start? Check out my top 10 lists for Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age Wonder Woman tales!

  13. #7348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    That's a shame. I wasn't a big fan of the approach although it seemed to work critically, but while I'm sure Black Canary will bounce back I hope Huntress finds a new opportunity in media in the future. Hopefully this doesn't impact other female-led Superhero movies.

    On the positive side, this reduces the chances of this movie having any kind of impact on Cassandra Cain.
    What this movie does should not be used as a weapon towards others.

    This movie should not be used to say "give up". Wonder Woman & Cap Marvel didn't. And how long was THAT line to keep them out of theaters?

    If it hits $200 based on what a total of 90 million budget (and whatever marketing)-so be it. This film will have a nice long life in the streaming realm.

    Birds of Prey should not prevent a Vixen or Batgirl film. It should not prevent a Cassandra Cain film-which I would suspect that OGN she has being used as the script.

  14. #7349
    Incredible Member Powertool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    I disagree, one person doing a good thing doesn't negate all the terrible things they have done.
    I think he was being sarcastic.

  15. #7350
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    What this movie does should not be used as a weapon towards others.
    Because there are so few female-lead action movies, the failure of any one of them undoubtedly cause people to say "Maybe there shouldn't be any more female lead action movies"

    Anyway, it's at a 2.x multiplier but there are a lot of stories about this movie from "The reshoots costed more than normal, which means the budget was higher than expected" to "WB didn't spend the usual amount of money marketing this film as they weren't expecting high returns to begin with."

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