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  1. #11671
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I actually want a movie (and honestly, a comic book) to explain that. I only saw Batgirl Year One the motion comic, but I think it kind of skimped on the training stuff too? Her dad is a cop in the most crime ridden city in the US, it makes sense that he'd have taught her self defense, and had her in a self defense class. I'm sure there's a karate class or judo class that Babs could have been in since she was a child. Add in say a gymnastics class or track and field in high school to help with running and leaping from rooftop to rooftop and you've got a good base to help buy into it.
    I think most of that is usually built into her pre-Batgirl expertise before she gets Bat-level training.

  2. #11672
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Her original origin was that she trained in martial arts and was a black belt by the time she graduated college and was also working on her doctorate while working as a librarian. The bat motif was because she had a crush on Batman when she was a teenager and she later thought it would be funny to prank her father by wearing a bat themed costume to a party.

  3. #11673
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think most of that is usually built into her pre-Batgirl expertise before she gets Bat-level training.
    Yeah, but any movie needs to make it more explicit. Especially since Bat-training happens later and you need to convince a movie audience that she can get herself not killed before the Bat-training. If they even do Bat-training. Hell, we don't even know if this'll be an origin movie. They could start with her more established - which further helps avoid problematic elements for the audience.

  4. #11674
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    HBO Max looks to be doubling down on the Snyder Cut being the end.


  5. #11675
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    HBO Max looks to be doubling down on the Snyder Cut being the end.

    Makes sense. If you ignore the Knightmare bits, it does feel like a completed story.

    I watched a really nice fan edit of Batman vs. Superman yesterday that completely omits the Knightmare sequence from that film and, believe me, the story does not need it for it to work. I thought BvS needed the extra breathing room that the 3 hour plus runtime of the Director's Cut allowed, but I was wrong, it simply needed to focus on what story it wanted to tell. Mr. Blue's fan-edit managed to squeeze the whole thing into 2 hours and 20 minutes and it felt like a much more focused and compelling movie without all the extraneous world building nonsense added to it.

    It's a shame that Snyder's trilogy will always feel undercooked (and overcooked), but now that those hours and hours of footage are in the hands of dedicated fan editors with time on their hands, I'm looking forward to seeing what it gets turned into. Something similar happened with the Star Wars films and I found myself enjoying some of those more than the theatrical films. Hal9000's fan edits of the Prequels really stripped away the parts that didn't work about those films and made me appreciate what Lucas was aiming for much more. That fan edit of BvS proved to me that something similar will happen with Snyder's films.

  6. #11676
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Makes sense. If you ignore the Knightmare bits, it does feel like a completed story.

    I watched a really nice fan edit of Batman vs. Superman yesterday that completely omits the Knightmare sequence from that film and, believe me, the story does not need it for it to work. I thought BvS needed the extra breathing room that the 3 hour plus runtime of the Director's Cut allowed, but I was wrong, it simply needed to focus on what story it wanted to tell. Mr. Blue's fan-edit managed to squeeze the whole thing into 2 hours and 20 minutes and it felt like a much more focused and compelling movie without all the extraneous world building nonsense added to it.

    It's a shame that Snyder's trilogy will always feel undercooked (and overcooked), but now that those hours and hours of footage are in the hands of dedicated fan editors with time on their hands, I'm looking forward to seeing what it gets turned into. Something similar happened with the Star Wars films and I found myself enjoying some of those more than the theatrical films. Hal9000's fan edits of the Prequels really stripped away the parts that didn't work about those films and made me appreciate what Lucas was aiming for much more. That fan edit of BvS proved to me that something similar will happen with Snyder's films.
    Not shocked that removing the knight are section helps as it does nothing except stop the movie dead in the water to tell you about a movie two movies from now. You donít need it to tell you Batman fears Superman we know heís been saying it every time heís on screen basically.

  7. #11677
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Mr. Blue's fan-edit managed to squeeze the whole thing into 2 hours and 20 minutes and it felt like a much more focused and compelling movie without all the extraneous world building nonsense added to it.
    What else it removes to cut it down by 40 minutes? Knightmare is like 5 minutes at most.

  8. #11678
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    Someone did an animated version of the Batman trailer.


  9. #11679
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    What else it removes to cut it down by 40 minutes? Knightmare is like 5 minutes at most.
    It completely removes the whole Superman framed for the massacre in Africa subplot that culminates in the Senate explosion and moves Clark’s mountaintop talk with Pa Kent to much earlier in the film, so that we start with a Superman who's already questioning his role in world due to his guilt over the consequences of the Battle of Metropolis.

    When the studio started cutting the film down for the theatrical cut, that whole African massacre, Lois investigating the bullet stuff already got gutted, but they clearly knew that plotline was dead weight. Unfortunately, they kept enough of it around, but in such a trimmed down form that the plot was incomprehensible in the theatrical cut.

    The fan edit also manages to streamline and eliminate some of the more problematic elements like Superman's uncharacteristically douche-y behavior and dialogue while recontextualizing other stuff in ways that really help the film work better.

  10. #11680
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    I think they cut that Africa stuff in theatrical because it was not directly related to Batman

  11. #11681
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    It completely removes the whole Superman framed for the massacre in Africa subplot that culminates in the Senate explosion and moves Clark’s mountaintop talk with Pa Kent to much earlier in the film, so that we start with a Superman who's already questioning his role in world due to his guilt over the consequences of the Battle of Metropolis.

    When the studio started cutting the film down for the theatrical cut, that whole African massacre, Lois investigating the bullet stuff already got gutted, but they clearly knew that plotline was dead weight. Unfortunately, they kept enough of it around, but in such a trimmed down form that the plot was incomprehensible in the theatrical cut.

    The fan edit also manages to streamline and eliminate some of the more problematic elements like Superman's uncharacteristically douche-y behavior and dialogue while recontextualizing other stuff in ways that really help the film work better.
    I think removing the Africa subplot could work, though why is he being summoned to the capitol then?

  12. #11682
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Makes sense. If you ignore the Knightmare bits, it does feel like a completed story.

    I watched a really nice fan edit of Batman vs. Superman yesterday that completely omits the Knightmare sequence from that film and, believe me, the story does not need it for it to work. I thought BvS needed the extra breathing room that the 3 hour plus runtime of the Director's Cut allowed, but I was wrong, it simply needed to focus on what story it wanted to tell. Mr. Blue's fan-edit managed to squeeze the whole thing into 2 hours and 20 minutes and it felt like a much more focused and compelling movie without all the extraneous world building nonsense added to.
    Very cool. Know any fans that can edit out Luthor? I sometimes try to watch the movie but, every time, I shut it off when Jesse Eisenberg appears.

  13. #11683
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    And the Knightmare scenes are the only parts of either film that I find actually interesting.

  14. #11684
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Someone did an animated version of the Batman trailer.

    That's actually pretty impressive. They must've put a lot of work in it.

  15. #11685
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    I think they cut that Africa stuff in theatrical because it was not directly related to Batman
    One of the things that became most apparent from Mr. Blue's fan edit of BvS was how the first half of the film is very much a Batman film with a Superman subplot, then the two clash and it becomes a Superman film guest-starring Batman & Wonder Woman. I didn't think that would work, but putting the climax of Superman's crisis of faith (the Pa Kent mountaintop chat) at the beginning of his character arc really worked for me in terms of setting up where Clark is at the start of the story and gives the ending of Man of Steel even more weight as it had a profound impact on both of the main characters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    I think removing the Africa subplot could work, though why is he being summoned to the capitol then?
    The whole Capitol explosion stuff is gone. It's unnecessary. It's only there to make Superman lose faith in himself, which this fan-edit accomplishes by having that be caused by his guilt over the destruction during MoS. This also helped re-contextualize Clark investigation of The Batman's sudden change in tactics by branding them, leading to their deaths in prison. Lois, of course, doesn't get as much to do until the second half, but there's enough of her and Clark's scenes that their love for each other remains very clear so that Clark's sacrifice at the end still hits.

    Quote Originally Posted by BatmanJones View Post
    Very cool. Know any fans that can edit out Luthor? I sometimes try to watch the movie but, every time, I shut it off when Jesse Eisenberg appears.
    Eisenberg's twitchiness is substaintially toned down, but rather his performance has been re-edited so that he seems like a guy who's slowly going insane.

    Quote Originally Posted by BatmanJones View Post
    And the Knightmare scenes are the only parts of either film that I find actually interesting.
    That's the thing. Snyder was spinning so many plates because of all the stuff the studio required him to set up that the whole film becomes overly-complicated and convoluted. By stripping away the stuff that doesn't serve the main thrust of the story (mainly, Batman vs Superman), you end up with a stronger, more focused film.

    Had Snyder simply done a dark apokoliptic future JL story from the get-go, I'm sure that would have resulted in a much better film, too. Snyder could indulge all his dark excesses in the confines of this alternate timeline without having to worry about giving fans the traditional DCU people were expecting.

    There is a fan edit out there that combines parts of Snyder's Watchmen film with the Knightmare sequences, along with a bunch of other dystopian movie stuff. I believe it's called "Doomsday Clock". Haven't seen it yet. I'll let you know if it's any good.

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