DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[SiegePerilous02]

But comic success doesn't equal movie success. Superman is having trouble getting a good movie, Harley Quinn had a good movie that didn't do well, meanwhile Aquaman made a billion. No reason to believe Dicks success would translate - never mind he hasn't been Robin in decades, and Pattinson's Batman is too young to have gone through the whole Robin to Nightwing story.

The comics not factoring into automatic success goes both ways. Dick not having been Robin in canon for decades doesn't mean anything, Nightwing is small potatoes compared to Robin and the latter is the most important identity he will ever have anyway. Nobody is asking for a full Robin to Nightwing story, at bare minimum a representation of Dick as Robin could work.

Reeves and Pattinson not wanting to use Robin would put an end to the issue, but nothing to confirm that either way yet. The GA will accept a talking raccoon and Peter Parker essentially being Iron Man's Robin, there isn't a hurdle with them.

[Vakanai]

I don't think either has commented on it at all. Other than their approach (which doesn't rule it out because there's so much about it we're not sure about yet) I wouldn't rule anything out.

They haven't commented on it - but they seem to be keen on a more grounded and serious take on Batman, and to most non-comic fans Robin doesn't fit that.

He doesn't have to be added but that doesn't mean he can't.

But it doesn't mean he will either.

I don't think it's even that much of a hurdle to begin with.

I respectfully disagree. I think culturally there's a very big hurdle, and you need people with vision and a desire to get over it, like what happened to Aquaman. I don't think Robin has that at this time.

That doesn't necessarily mean these characters are any less significant/important though.

Never once said or implied they were.

No one is expecting Pattinson to start out with Robin but if this is really turning into a trilogy there is probably some expectation that they'll get into the sidekicks at some point.

I don't think there's any expectation of that at all. Last trilogy didn't have it, the shared universe skipped to after the fact. I think there's more an expectation that they won't get into sidekicks.

I think fans and casuals alike would go crazy for an athletic and charismatic new Robin on screen.

Fans yes, casuals? I just don't see it.

[manwhohaseverything]

Yeah! I see more potential for a solo nightwing movie than a robin movie.Sure, robin has draw.But,it has detractors as well.

[Vakanai]

The comics not factoring into automatic success goes both ways. Dick not having been Robin in canon for decades doesn't mean anything, Nightwing is small potatoes compared to Robin and the latter is the most important identity he will ever have anyway. Nobody is asking for a full Robin to Nightwing story, at bare minimum a representation of Dick as Robin could work.

Reeves and Pattinson not wanting to use Robin would put an end to the issue, but nothing to confirm that either way yet. The GA will accept a talking raccoon and Peter Parker essentially being Iron Man's Robin, there isn't a hurdle with them.

There's still no reason to think that he will be included as Robin, much less that it will be successful if he is.

Rocket is in a comedy science fiction group, not the more serious films this promises to be, and Spider-Man has superpowers. Neither are an applicable comparison here.

[Vakanai]

Yeah! I see more potential for a solo nightwing movie than a robin movie.Sure, robin has draw.But,it has detractors as well.

This is more what I would like to see. Disconnect it to The Batman movie, establish the Robin history quickly, go full tilt into a fun Nightwing movie.

[Lightning Rider]

Fans yes, casuals? I just don't see it.

When I say casuals I'm including non-comic book readers who grew up watching BTAS, or played the Arkham games, or liked Lego Batman, or even older folks nostalgic for Adam West. Batman and Robin loom large in the public consciousness, and a new Robin fits right into the long-established & popular tradition of the light-hearted youthful foil to the dark and jaded protagonist.

What I don't see is the kind of conceptual aversion you're alluding to. General audiences aren't exposed to the controversies of child soldiers nearly enough to make that link with Robin, IMO. Fans ate up Tom Holland's Peter Parker, they'll go bananas over a well-executed Dick Grayson.

[Frontier]

They haven't commented on it - but they seem to be keen on a more grounded and serious take on Batman, and to most non-comic fans Robin doesn't fit that.

That does seem to be their approach, but I don't think that rules out a grounded and serious Robin either.

But it doesn't mean he will either.

Obviously. But I don't think there should be a lack of expectation for it.

I respectfully disagree. I think culturally there's a very big hurdle, and you need people with vision and a desire to get over it, like what happened to Aquaman. I don't think Robin has that at this time.

Honestly, I feel like we've been seeing that with media adaptions of Robin, and even how they approach Robin in the comics, for a while now so I don't think it would be that big a jump. People could accept most everything from the '66 show moving away from the camp and outlandishness, I don't think Robin would be a step too many.

I don't think there's any expectation of that at all. Last trilogy didn't have it, the shared universe skipped to after the fact. I think there's more an expectation that they won't get into sidekicks.

The last trilogy had sidekicks, they just didn't put them in costume even if they basically ended up being stand-in's like Blake was. I think it would be a good thing to at least have something more to differentiate a new trilogy from the Nolan films rather than regurgitate another serious, grounded, and realistic Batman movie.

Fans yes, casuals? I just don't see it.

I don't see what's in that character type that wouldn't appeal to casuals. It's all in the execution.

[SiegePerilous02]

This seems to be a Year One movie, are they for sure sticking with the grounded approach as they go into future movies?

There's still no reason to think that he will be included as Robin, much less that it will be successful if he is.

Rocket is in a comedy science fiction group, not the more serious films this promises to be, and Spider-Man has superpowers. Neither are an applicable comparison here.

That still doesn't address the ways around it. Like having Dick active as Robin while he is college aged, like in BTAS. That instantly kills like half of the traditional hang ups people have with the concept.

They are applicable. That proves the general audiences will accept anything as long as it is done well. Nobody here is saying to just throw Robin in without any rhyme or reason, just that it's kind of silly to think there is more of a hurdle for him more than anyone else. The casuals will reject it if its bad, they will embrace it if it is good. Pretty simple.

[Vakanai]

When I say casuals I'm including non-comic book readers who grew up watching BTAS, or played the Arkham games, or liked Lego Batman, or even older folks nostalgic for Adam West. Batman and Robin loom large in the public consciousness, and a new Robin fits right into the long-established & popular tradition of the light-hearted youthful foil to the dark and jaded protagonist.

What I don't see is the kind of conceptual aversion you're alluding to. General audiences aren't exposed to the controversies of child soldiers nearly enough to make that link with Robin, IMO. Fans ate up Tom Holland's Peter Parker, they'll go bananas over a well-executed Dick Grayson.

I wasn't the one making the child soldier argument - I was the one saying that he is considered more campy/silly to the audience, which doesn't fit the direction they seem to be taking, and that like Aquaman you need to get people really into the character to get past the joke, and I don't think that's what we have going on here.

[Vakanai]

That does seem to be their approach, but I don't think that rules out a grounded and serious Robin either.

Obviously. But I don't think there should be a lack of expectation for it.

Honestly, I feel like we've been seeing that with media adaptions of Robin, and even how they approach Robin in the comics, for a while now so I don't think it would be that big a jump. People could accept most everything from the '66 show moving away from the camp and outlandishness, I don't think Robin would be a step too many.

The last trilogy had sidekicks, they just didn't put them in costume even if they basically ended up being stand-in's like Blake was. I think it would be a good thing to at least have something more to differentiate a new trilogy from the Nolan films rather than regurgitate another serious, grounded, and realistic Batman movie.

I don't see what's in that character type that wouldn't appeal to casuals. It's all in the execution.

This seems to be a Year One movie, are they for sure sticking with the grounded approach as they go into future movies?



That still doesn't address the ways around it. Like having Dick active as Robin while he is college aged, like in BTAS. That instantly kills like half of the traditional hang ups people have with the concept.

They are applicable. That proves the general audiences will accept anything as long as it is done well. Nobody here is saying to just throw Robin in without any rhyme or reason, just that it's kind of silly to think there is more of a hurdle for him more than anyone else. The casuals will reject it if its bad, they will embrace it if it is good. Pretty simple.

Yeah, I'm not invested enough in this hypothetical to continue. Suffice it to say that I don't believe that they either want to include Robin or will include Robin, and that he isn't as big of a deal to casuals as some fans think. I get fans want their character of choice to hit it big on the big screen, and when someone disagrees you want to argue as if by winning it will happen. But I just don't think it's in the cards, and I think it would make the film less good than what we've been told to include him.

[SiegePerilous02]

I wasn't the one making the child soldier argument - I was the one saying that he is considered more campy/silly to the audience, which doesn't fit the direction they seem to be taking, and that like Aquaman you need to get people really into the character to get past the joke, and I don't think that's what we have going on here.

Batman himself was pretty campy too.
Aquaman they got people to get over it with one movie (JL don't count lol). Why shouldn't one movie be all it takes to get people to see Robin a different way? It's not gonna happen until they do it. Especially as he won't be the main draw anyway, so it's not like he will turn people away if they want to see other stuff.

He also doesn't necessarily have to be in this one, surely we're gonna get more if this one is successful, so those are the logical place to put him.

[Frontier]

Honestly, I wouldn't put Robin at all on the level of Aquaman pre-movie.

[Vakanai]

Batman himself was pretty campy too.
Aquaman they got people to get over it with one movie (JL don't count lol). Why shouldn't one movie be all it takes to get people to see Robin a different way? Especially as he won't be the main draw anyway, so it's not like he will turn people away if they want to see other stuff.

He also doesn't necessarily have to be in this one, surely we're gonna get more if this one is successful, so those are the logical place to put him.

As I said above, I'm out on this. I'm not a Robin fan, so I can only debate against three Robin fans who desperately wants him in film so much before I'm tired of it.

[Frontier]

As I said above, I'm out on this. I'm not a Robin fan, so I can only debate against three Robin fans who desperately wants him in film so much before I'm tired of it.

Sorry if it feels like we're piling on-top of you. I can understand some of the reservations to the concept and it seems like the previous filmmakers had that same idea, but I don't think any concept is inherently impossible to make work in live-action.

[SiegePerilous02]

As I said above, I'm out on this. I'm not a Robin fan, so I can only debate against three Robin fans who desperately wants him in film so much before I'm tired of it.

Like Frontier said, sorry if we're piling on. I wouldn't say we're "desperate" though. If you're not a Robin fan, that makes more sense.

I can understand that mentality, I wouldn't be eager to see all the Robins in the movies either, just Dick.