DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[Holt]

He had tattoos, but his skinny ass wasn't roided up and he never did MMA. It was an awful enough take without making stuff up.

Hey, take it up with the brilliant script.

[Frontier]

I'll be very surprised if we ever see Leto's Joker again.

[Vordan]

At best I can see him getting killed by Harley and the Sirens as the culmination of her “liberation” but even that feels like a pipe dream. Also holy hell that script lmaooo perfect first post for our 1000th page

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Dude that doesn’t matter at all, it’s just an Easter egg at best. They didn’t even spell LuthOR right (and the continuity is still wrong because Lex should’ve escape from Arkham by the time of Batgirl), you can’t take a magazine prop that the general audience is unlikely to even notice as somehow proving which films are in continuity. Besides WB doesn’t always keep all their directors in the loop, James Gunn and The Rock don’t even know who the current DCEU Superman will be, Sandberg seemed surprised that Shazam might be in The Flash, WB doesn’t run a tight ship.

Every major leaker is all saying the same thing. There’s supposedly a showing of The Flash that will happen this week and let us know for sure, but otherwise it looks pretty definitive that this movie will erase the Snyderverse.

I'm just saying: I'll believe it when I see it. A lot of the leakers who are spreading it around have spotty track records to say the least. I mean, can anyone direct us to an actual reputable source for the rumor?

And you may not put much stock in it, but highly publicized leaks showing that BvS is still considered canon is not something that happens by accident. Who cares if they spelled Luthor wrong? Maybe that's how he spells it in this universe. Also, who's to say that that's not supposed to be an old magazine cover from before Luthor broke out of jail? I mean, the leaks just happened to show off a clear image of a cover that just happened to clearly reference one of Snyder's movies right AFTER there was a supposed "leak" that Snyder's movies are being written out of canon? Come on, dude.

Again, maybe it does happen, but do you know how much money WB would be leaving on the table by erasing their two most popular characters from their cinematic universe? Especially when there are already movies slotted to come out after Flash starring characters who have directly interacted with those two characters? Not to mention the fact that there would still be villains for both of those characters running around the DCEU. I mean, how would we explain where Harley Quinn came from if Batman and Joker are erased from existence? Why is Bloodsport in jail?

And, in complete honesty, the leak does sort of reek of a false flag rumor meant to stir up controversy and publicity, but doesn't end up actually being true. Again, I'll believe it when I see it. But it seems a bit out there, given how much it would actually impact everything.

[Vordan]

Nothing about those leaks say BvS is still canon at all, they’re background props. Every single major source of news has been saying that Affleck and Cavill are out. Affleck himself says he’s out. Batman isn’t getting erased from the DCEU, they’re just replacing Affleck with Keaton. Keaton can still be “Batman” as a mentor to Batgirl and Nightwing. Cavill is out because he didn’t do the Shazam cameo and won’t accept being a cameo in other people’s movies, so he’s either getting outright erased or sidelined. Given his Superman has been divisive at best, I doubt WB thinks they’re going to be losing out on much money, and they’re giving Superman to Abrams to butcher like he did ST and SW.

You’re bringing up continuity when WB themselves don’t even care. Why did Waller need Bloodsport when she could’ve just used Deadshot? What’s going to happen to all the Knightmare stuff, the 2017 version of JL totally ignored it? Why does Peacemaker say Batman doesn’t kill when Batffleck was mowing down people with machine guns? Flashpoint will reboot all of that. None of these rumors are a surprise, since 2018 the message has been clear: Affleck does not want to be Batman, Cavill can’t cut a deal with WB, WB will instead be focusing on Batgirl and Supergirl in the DCEU while Batman and Superman movies get made outside of it. This week a showing of the Flash will apparently happen and then we’ll start getting specifics.

If it was just Grace or whoever I wouldn’t put much stock in it, but enough people have outright said the Snyderverse will be erased that I believe it, since that neatly aligns with what WB has signaled their plans are for the franchise going forward.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Nothing about those leaks say BvS is still canon at all, they’re background props. Every single major source of news has been saying that Affleck and Cavill are out. Affleck himself says he’s out. Batman isn’t getting erased from the DCEU, they’re just replacing Affleck with Keaton. Keaton can still be “Batman” as a mentor to Batgirl and Nightwing. Cavill is out because he didn’t do the Shazam cameo and won’t accept being a cameo in other people’s movies, so he’s either getting outright erased or sidelined. Given his Superman has been divisive at best, I doubt WB thinks they’re going to be losing out on much money, and they’re giving Superman to Abrams to butcher like he did ST and SW.

You’re bringing up continuity when WB themselves don’t even care. Why did Waller need Bloodsport when she could’ve just used Deadshot? What’s going to happen to all the Knightmare stuff, the 2017 version of JL totally ignored it? Why does Peacemaker say Batman doesn’t kill when Batffleck was mowing down people with machine guns? Flashpoint will reboot all of that. None of these rumors are a surprise, since 2018 the message has been clear: Affleck does not want to be Batman, Cavill can’t cut a deal with WB, WB will instead be focusing on Batgirl and Supergirl in the DCEU while Batman and Superman movies get made outside of it. This week a showing of the Flash will apparently happen and then we’ll start getting specifics.

If it was just Grace or whoever I wouldn’t put much stock in it, but enough people have outright said the Snyderverse will be erased that I believe it, since that neatly aligns with what WB has signaled their plans are for the franchise going forward.

Again, you seem to be conflating "major news source" with "guy I follow on YouTube." Again, can we see an actual reputable news source confirm the rumor? If anything, most of the actual news sources I've seen have covered the fan reaction to the rumor rather than actually confirming the rumor itself. Even the CBR article takes pains to clarify that it's still a RUMOR and that it hasn't been verified. And then even Ezra Miller came out with a statement that seemingly contradicts the rumor. Again, it might be true, but until we have an actual reputable source confirming it, I'm taking it with a huge grain of salt.

However, the only 100% real thing we do have from the set of the Batgirl movie seems to suggest that the rumor isn't true. You may think they're background props, but what if there's a scene where Barbara actually picks up some of these magazines and reads them? What if they actually zoom in on the covers to give context to the film's setting (a common visual cue in many movies)? Again, why would they make such a big deal of the magazine covers in the leaks if they were just background props. So, again, looking at what we actually 100% know is real, the rumor doesn't necessarily have a lot of evidence backing it up at this point.

Also, you do know that none of what you said points to a reboot, right? Actually, the Bloodsport-Deadshot thing points to them not rebooting: i.e. why would they feel the need to introduce Idris Elba's Bloodsport to fill the role that Will Smith's Deadshot had previously played IF they were rebooting anyway? In other words, why couldn't Idris Elba have just played Deadshot if this was a rebooted universe? Well, likely because Will Smith wants to return at a certain point and didn't want to have another actor playing his character for continuity reasons.

Also, if Batman's being erased from continuity, then Peacemaker wouldn't be mentioning him at all...because he wouldn't even exist in the first place. Same thing with how they just mentioned Bat-Mite in the most recent episode. How would Bat-Mite exist if Batman himself doesn't exist in this universe??

Again, you are putting stock in a lot of people on Twitter and YouTube when most reputable news sites have made it clear that at this point, it's still a rumor.

What I think is a more likely case is: since Ben Affleck doesn't want to be Batman anymore, they'll likely be killing off his character (but not erasing him from the timeline) in the DCEU and Michael Keaton's Batman (having come into contact with the DCEU Batman and Flash during the Flash movie) decides that this world, even if it's not his, needs a Batman and crosses over to the DCEU from his home universe. However, they keep it in-continuity that he is from a separate universe.

Therefore, when Leslie Grace's Barbara takes up the Batgirl mantle, she is doing it in memory of the DCEU Batman who died and honoring his legacy, while also being mentored by the Keaton version of Batman. Sort of like an Into The Spider-Verse situation.

Meanwhile, since Cavill (unlike Affleck) seems like he more than wants to be Superman again, they're likely keeping the door open on his return, but still bringing in Sasha Calle's Supergirl as an "alternative" Super-character for fans while they still try to work out a deal with Cavill.

[Frontier]

At best I can see him getting killed by Harley and the Sirens as the culmination of her “liberation” but even that feels like a pipe dream. Also holy hell that script lmaooo perfect first post for our 1000th page

I don't think Leto would agree to come back for that, but then again they already used a fake version of him so ...

[Last Son of Krypton]

Batfleck will not be erased, he'll get killed early in the movie to give Barry his uncle Ben's moment.

What I think is a more likely case is: since Ben Affleck doesn't want to be Batman anymore, they'll likely be killing off his character (but not erasing him from the timeline) in the DCEU and Michael Keaton's Batman (having come into contact with the DCEU Batman and Flash during Flashpoint) decides that this world, even if it's not his, needs a Batman and crosses over to the DCEU from his home universe. However, they keep it in-continuity that he is from a separate universe.

Therefore, when Leslie Grace's Barbara takes up the Batgirl mantle, she is doing it in memory of the DCEU Batman (who dies) and honoring his legacy, while also being mentored by the Keaton version of Batman. Sort of like an Into The Spider-Verse situation.

This is what I expect too. Something else would be just unnecessary complicated.

You have also the words of the director, explaining how Bat-Keaton (and likely other "multiverse" guests) will fit in.

“This movie is a bit of a hinge in the sense that it presents a story that implies a unified universe where all the cinematic iterations that we’ve seen before are valid,” Muschietti said. “It’s inclusive in the sense that it is saying all that you’ve seen exists, and everything that you will see exists, in the same unified multiverse.”

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood...tiverse-keaton

[The Darknight Detective]

Tbh, guys, I don't know if I'm buying the rumor that they are actually erasing Ben Affleck's Batman from canon or that they're completely erasing Superman, either. They might kill the former off, but I don't necessarily see them erasing Betfleck from continuity, especially in the wake of the magazine cover leaks from the Batgirl set, one of which directly references the events of Batman v. Superman.



This might be somewhat controversial to say, but I think we desperately need some nuance when it comes to the Killing Joke/Oracle discussion because there seems to be a lot of confusion over what actually is and isn't objectionable about Barbara Gordon's evolution as a character, so somebody needs to say it.

So, here's the thing about the Killing Joke: the mere fact that Barbara is paralyzed is not really what's problematic about that story. The problematic aspect of TKJ is that the fact of her assault is used as motivation for Batman to go after Joker, while Barbara is largely ignored for the rest of the story.

A protagonist being subjected to physical or psychological injury is...kind of common in superhero stories. Some may say it's the entire point of superhero stories. How many times have heroes had to overcome severe physical pain to stop the bad guy or suffer severe injury and seemingly be down for the count? More times than we can count.

But again, the reason why it's an issue in TKJ is because of the fact that all of that happens to Barbara and then the story takes the focus off of her.

That being said, how Barbara's character developed in the years that followed, showing her as someone who, in the wake of her paralysis, still maintained her position in the Bat-family and (arguably) increased her role in the wider DC Universe as Oracle was a testament to the strength of her character.

And furthermore, it was a positive example of representation for people with disabilities. And the way that they kind of cavalierly scrapped her Oracle identity and returned her to the Batgirl role during the New 52 was pretty ableist. It was basically like DC was saying "who could ever be useful while they're in a wheelchair?" forgetting that there are millions of people who are in wheelchairs and that literally 26% of Americans (i.e. over a quarter) have a disability.

So, all this to say that, even if they did decide to adapt the Killing Joke for the DCEU, it wouldn't necessarily be anti-feminist, as long as the focus remained on Barbara and how she overcame the adversity as opposed to shifting the focus to one of her male counterparts. And if Barbara was then able to mentor a young Stephanie Brown or Cassandra Cain to take up the mantle of Batgirl, while she took on her Oracle identity and formed the Birds of Prey with Jurnee Smollett's Black Canary, well I don't know if that would be the worst thing in the world.

Either way, though, I think that should be much further down the line.

Can we get the first movie in the theaters first before fans of other Batgirls call for Babs to take over the secondary role of Oracle?

[mace11]

Controversial topic

A fanmade mcu timeline was posted in the mcu thread recently and this got me thinking about both dceu and mcu timelines and creation.
Speaking of timelines and creation etc..[/url]

[The Darknight Detective]

Controversial topic

A fanmade mcu timeline was posted in the mcu thread recently and this got me thinking about both dceu and mcu timelines and creation.
Speaking of timelines and creation etc..

This really shouldn't be here, mace, but in the TV/Film section.

[mace11]

This really shouldn't be here, mace, but in the TV/Film section.

Could the updated dceu timeline be posted here instead of dceu vs mcu timeline?or the link?

[The Darknight Detective]

Could the updated dceu timeline be posted here instead of dceu vs mcu timeline?or the link?

If it's strictly DCEU, sure.

[mace11]

Updated DCEU creation and timeline.

Zeus

Creating Humanity
At some point afterward, according to Hippolyta, Zeus proceeded to create humanity, making them in the Old Gods' likeness, imbuing his creation with many virtues.
https://dcextendeduniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Zeus
and
Humans
Humans, also known as Terrans to the Ko'erst and Landsmen or Surface Dwellers to the Atlanteans, are the dominant species of Earth. They were created over 200 millennia ago by the Olympian King Zeus.
They are a sister species to the Atlanteans, the sea-dwelling inhabitants of Atlantis, and, as a collective, possess several unique genetic traits that allow a small number of them to become powerful Metahumans. A smaller subspecies of humans known as Homo Magi can also naturally channel magical energies.
Many millennia ago, Zeus, King of the Old Gods, created humanity, making them in the gods' likeness, and imbuing them with their virtues. However, Zeus' son Ares began corrupting humanity with war and violence, so Zeus created a new race - the Amazons, who were intended to protect humanity from Ares' influence, while spreading love and compassion amongst them.
https://dcextendeduniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Humans

Old Gods
The Old Gods, also known as the Greek Gods, the Olympian Gods, and the Twelve Olympians, were an extra-dimensional race of very powerful beings who were worshiped as gods by the ancient Greek, Roman, Amazonian and Atlantean civilizations. They occupied a realm known as Mount Olympus.
https://dcextendeduniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Old_Gods

Before 19th century
c. 13,000,000,000 B.C.
The red star Rao forms in the Andromeda Galaxy.

c. 8,700,000,000 B.C.
The planet Krypton forms.

c. 7,000,000,000 B.C.
Life emerges on Krypton.

c. 4,600,000,000 B.C.
The yellow star Sol forms in the Milky Way galaxy.

c. 4,540,000,000 B.C.
The planet Earth forms.

c. 3,800,000,000 B.C.
Life emerges on Earth.

c. 1,000,000,000 B.C.
The Mother Boxes are created.

c. 530,000,000 B.C.
First lifeforms emerge from the sea of Earth and start populating on land.

c. 500,000,000 B.C.
Nautilus mollusks live in Earth primordial oceans.

c. 298,000 B.C.
Creation of Man and the Amazons: Humans emerge as the dominant species of Earth and proceed to found the first primitive civilizations.WW logo template.png (estimated date)

c. 98,000 B.C.
Kryptonian Expansion: The Kryptonians begin interstellar expansion by colonizing other planets, such as Daxam.During the expansion they have first contact with the New Gods and the Thanagarians.

For the rest of the updated timeline clink link below.

https://dcextendeduniverse.fandom.co...e_19th_century

[Shimbo]

Tbh, guys, I don't know if I'm buying the rumor that they are actually erasing Ben Affleck's Batman from canon or that they're completely erasing Superman, either. They might kill the former off, but I don't necessarily see them erasing Betfleck from continuity, especially in the wake of the magazine cover leaks from the Batgirl set, one of which directly references the events of Batman v. Superman.



This might be somewhat controversial to say, but I think we desperately need some nuance when it comes to the Killing Joke/Oracle discussion because there seems to be a lot of confusion over what actually is and isn't objectionable about Barbara Gordon's evolution as a character, so somebody needs to say it.

So, here's the thing about the Killing Joke: the mere fact that Barbara is paralyzed is not really what's problematic about that story. The problematic aspect of TKJ is that the fact of her assault is used as motivation for Batman to go after Joker, while Barbara is largely ignored for the rest of the story.

A protagonist being subjected to physical or psychological injury is...kind of common in superhero stories. Some may say it's the entire point of superhero stories. How many times have heroes had to overcome severe physical pain to stop the bad guy or suffer severe injury and seemingly be down for the count? More times than we can count.

But again, the reason why it's an issue in TKJ is because of the fact that all of that happens to Barbara and then the story takes the focus off of her.

That being said, how Barbara's character developed in the years that followed, showing her as someone who, in the wake of her paralysis, still maintained her position in the Bat-family and (arguably) increased her role in the wider DC Universe as Oracle was a testament to the strength of her character.

And furthermore, it was a positive example of representation for people with disabilities. And the way that they kind of cavalierly scrapped her Oracle identity and returned her to the Batgirl role during the New 52 was pretty ableist. It was basically like DC was saying "who could ever be useful while they're in a wheelchair?" forgetting that there are millions of people who are in wheelchairs and that literally 26% of Americans (i.e. over a quarter) have a disability.

So, all this to say that, even if they did decide to adapt the Killing Joke for the DCEU, it wouldn't necessarily be anti-feminist, as long as the focus remained on Barbara and how she overcame the adversity as opposed to shifting the focus to one of her male counterparts. And if Barbara was then able to mentor a young Stephanie Brown or Cassandra Cain to take up the mantle of Batgirl, while she took on her Oracle identity and formed the Birds of Prey with Jurnee Smollett's Black Canary, well I don't know if that would be the worst thing in the world.

Either way, though, I think that should be much further down the line.

I don't disagree with your analysis, but Bruce was allowed to fully recover from his back being broken. The same should be allowed for Barbara. Even as it is now, her microchip malfunctioning is conveniently used when whoever wants to bench her. Yes, Barbara is amazing as Oracle. But there's no need to rush into that direction. They're going with a Burnside outfit for a reason. While this will be in Gotham and requisitely "dark", I doubt she'll be overly broody and they'll play up her fun and intelligence/tech skill. She's the Dominoed Daredoll and hopefully she enjoys a couple of media projects as Batgirl before the inevitable...