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  1. #13741
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CosmiComic View Post
    I can see that, but then we'd just get the same business over again. Instead of hard reboot, I think a soft reboot could work better
    Hard, soft, a reboot is a reboot. And I don't care what they go for, new origin, skip the origin, soft reboot that handwaves away the Snyder and Cavill problem, hard reboot that just jumps in with mid-career Superman, I just want a fun Clark Kent Superman up on the big screen again. And the Coates thing definitely isn't that, and Cavill no matter what he wants definitely isn't coming back (outside maybe cameos and to get his butt kicked by Black Adam). And I'd like to see a decent classic line up of the JL again that's actually great this time, and that definitely ain't happening without a reboot (and I don't think that Earth 2 getting started in The Batman is a good place to reboot the rest of the JL).

  2. #13742
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CosmiComic View Post
    But he is a superhero. No offense but that sounds pretentious
    Who cares? As long as the movie is half or even a quarter as good as I feel it will be, it's good. Do we even want his Batman to be a team up JL Batman?

  3. #13743
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    Pattinson has stated that he likes Batman because heís not a superhero. Doesnít seem like the type of actor who thinks like heís any to be in a superhero team up flick.
    Pattinson is kind of a troll so you can never tell when heís being serious and when heís having fun.
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  4. #13744
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Why? I mean, there's been 2 movies outside of the mainline DCEU (Joker, Snyder Cut), and two coming up (The Batman + shows, Superman reboot). Every single other thing we know of (arguable exception of MBJ's Superman because Max vs WB films proper dispute) is for sure going to be in the normal DCEU. Black Adam, Flash, Peacemaker (Peacekeeper? Whoever Cena's playing), Batgirl, Zatanna, Supergirl, Black Canary, possibly a Gotham City Sirens, Hourman, probably one or two I'm forgetting. Unless something happens to royally screw it up I don't understand this whole "DCEU isn't a mainline thing" thing that's going around.
    To be honest, with some exception, they just feel like a bunch of DC movies without much in the way connective tissue or any kind of collective continuity.

  5. #13745
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    To be honest, with some exception, they just feel like a bunch of DC movies without much in the way connective tissue or any kind of collective continuity.
    They’re not “building” to anything is why you feel that way. The MCU had all those teased building up to Thanos, DC doesn’t have that anymore. They’re abandoning the Knightmare and who knows if anything will replace it.
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  6. #13746
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    They’re not “building” to anything is why you feel that way. The MCU had all those teased building up to Thanos, DC doesn’t have that anymore. They’re abandoning the Knightmare and who knows if anything will replace it.
    And it's not like there's going to be much crossover or at least concrete world-building. Like, okay, maybe they'll mention Superman (or Supergirl) but that's not even definite. We don't even know if Superman will still exist .

  7. #13747
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    To be honest, with some exception, they just feel like a bunch of DC movies without much in the way connective tissue or any kind of collective continuity.
    That's because they are - after the box office bomb of JL that was what they needed and wanted, to just put the brakes hard on the "plan" and just spend some years making decent movies to keep in the game while they backpeddle and take time to re-strategize and make a new "plan". More than likely the "idling" stage is over and The Flash is going to be the film that reintroduces the connective tissue. So yeah, you're right, but you're also kind of wrong - you somehow "felt" like things didn't connect instead of knowing that they didn't and that was the point, and thus missed the part where not connecting was just the temporary stop-gap so started to lose hope of the universe being more connected right before the film that's probably meant to bring all of that back in focus. Which I guess is fair, but people have basically been saying that this loosening of connective tissue for a few years until the Flash movie was a thing since shortly after JL bombed.

    In other words, Flash, and probably Black Adam, are the movies you want because that's where everything starts going all MCU "Everything's connected!" all over again. Me? I kind of preferred the lack of connective tissue between films the past few years and hate to see it go. But I knew it was temporary all along, so I'm not going to wail about it passing. The connected-ness is coming back, so you should be feeling positive and optimistic if a lack of it was bothering you. Again, I'm in the other boat, I've enjoyed these post-JL films immensely and hate to see the return of the "everything! Connect! Always! Now!" mentality coming back. It was refreshing contrast to Snyder's DCEU and the ongoing MCU that started this whole cinematic universe craze/hell we live in now.

  8. #13748
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    They’re not “building” to anything is why you feel that way. The MCU had all those teased building up to Thanos, DC doesn’t have that anymore. They’re abandoning the Knightmare and who knows if anything will replace it.
    They were right to abandon it, the Knightmare was dumb to begin with and they should've never greenlit that or half of Snyder's ideas. That said, Flash and probably Black Adam is where we get the "try again" and things start building up again. To what? I don't know. But something is replacing it, the DCEU will have it's own "Thanos/Endgame" to build towards. Which I'm not hugely looking forward too. After the MCU, I'm tired of cinematic universes having to have every single film connect in some way and build up to some huge ass crossover spectacular. It was great that someone pulled it off the once, but lord once is enough...

    But sadly it isn't because the MCU is already planning to repeat the process and the DCEU is going to try and ape them as best they possibly can. *groan*

  9. #13749
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    That's because they are - after the box office bomb of JL that was what they needed and wanted, to just put the brakes hard on the "plan" and just spend some years making decent movies to keep in the game while they backpeddle and take time to re-strategize and make a new "plan". More than likely the "idling" stage is over and The Flash is going to be the film that reintroduces the connective tissue. So yeah, you're right, but you're also kind of wrong - you somehow "felt" like things didn't connect instead of knowing that they didn't and that was the point, and thus missed the part where not connecting was just the temporary stop-gap so started to lose hope of the universe being more connected right before the film that's probably meant to bring all of that back in focus. Which I guess is fair, but people have basically been saying that this loosening of connective tissue for a few years until the Flash movie was a thing since shortly after JL bombed.

    In other words, Flash, and probably Black Adam, are the movies you want because that's where everything starts going all MCU "Everything's connected!" all over again. Me? I kind of preferred the lack of connective tissue between films the past few years and hate to see it go. But I knew it was temporary all along, so I'm not going to wail about it passing. The connected-ness is coming back, so you should be feeling positive and optimistic if a lack of it was bothering you. Again, I'm in the other boat, I've enjoyed these post-JL films immensely and hate to see the return of the "everything! Connect! Always! Now!" mentality coming back. It was refreshing contrast to Snyder's DCEU and the ongoing MCU that started this whole cinematic universe craze/hell we live in now.
    I don't know if I'm missing anything so much as just seeing that WB is going on a movie-by-movie basis with things and not worrying too much about continuity or a shared universe. I don't think it's a stop-gap or Flash is going to change things up so much beyond Keaton and Supergirl but even that I assume will only have small ripples.

    I'm not even sure how much Black Adam will connect with Shazam. It could just feel completely standalone.

    Personally I don't need to see them act like it's the MCU but it doesn't feel like a real DCU to me either. Even the Arrowverse seems like it's winding down when you look at how many shows are ending and how shows like Legends and SM&L barely bother to tie-in anymore.

  10. #13750
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I don't know if I'm missing anything so much as just seeing that WB is going on a movie-by-movie basis with things and not worrying too much about continuity or a shared universe. I don't think it's a stop-gap or Flash is going to change things up so much beyond Keaton and Supergirl but even that I assume will only have small ripples.

    I'm not even sure how much Black Adam will connect with Shazam. It could just feel completely standalone.

    Personally I don't need to see them act like it's the MCU but it doesn't feel like a real DCU to me either. Even the Arrowverse seems like it's winding down when you look at how many shows are ending and how shows like Legends and SM&L barely bother to tie-in anymore.
    Eh, to each their own. By stop gap I actually meant "that WB is going on a movie-by-movie basis with things and not worrying too much about continuity or a shared universe" like you said, but only while they got their ducks in a row again and did some damage control until they figured out some things. I disagree with you entirely if you think things are going to stay like that though. As much as I wish they would and would honestly prefer it (again, I've preferred the post-JL DCEU films over anything the MCU has done just because I'm not a fan of the whole "connective tissue" mantra of the cinematic universe) I do believe they want to go back to the "build up" model again. I believe we're going to see their films connect more and more going forward. Small ripples just doesn't seem like the plan. Big ripples. Keaton will make a bunch of cameos, Supergirl will be the new Superman stand in. Crossovers and team ups are coming back. Which is "oh joy" if you want crossovers, and "oh joy" with a lot of sarcasm if you don't so much.

    It could "feel" stand alone, but there will 100% be a Shazam tease because the two will be squaring off in the future, we know this.

    Arrowverse is winding down - hey, it's been a decade, and HBO Max is getting prioritized over the CW. The new "Arrowverse" is going to be - the DCEU. Peacemaker is just the start. There won't be a separate connected TV universe, there'll be just the DCEU as the main line, and some non-connected stuff like Joker or The Batman on occasion.

    Trust me, this "doesn't feel like a real DCU" thing is going to be put to bed hard over the next few years. You'll be ecstatic over how everyone is cameoing and crossing over and teaming up again. Meanwhile I'll be the one where you are now feeling much less enthused about where DC is. Again, I've preferred this current less connected less obsessed with tie ins model, I don't want it to change. But it will. You are going to get exactly what you want, I won't.

  11. #13751
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Eh, to each their own. By stop gap I actually meant "that WB is going on a movie-by-movie basis with things and not worrying too much about continuity or a shared universe" like you said, but only while they got their ducks in a row again and did some damage control until they figured out some things. I disagree with you entirely if you think things are going to stay like that though. As much as I wish they would and would honestly prefer it (again, I've preferred the post-JL DCEU films over anything the MCU has done just because I'm not a fan of the whole "connective tissue" mantra of the cinematic universe) I do believe they want to go back to the "build up" model again. I believe we're going to see their films connect more and more going forward. Small ripples just doesn't seem like the plan. Big ripples. Keaton will make a bunch of cameos, Supergirl will be the new Superman stand in. Crossovers and team ups are coming back. Which is "oh joy" if you want crossovers, and "oh joy" with a lot of sarcasm if you don't so much.
    I have seen no indication that they are interested in pushing back to a connected shared universe aside from certain spinoffs and cameos. I think it's too early to assume that they're building up to that in any form.
    It could "feel" stand alone, but there will 100% be a Shazam tease because the two will be squaring off in the future, we know this.
    I would hope so, but I don't know if it's for certain. I'm kind of surprised they haven't confirmed if The Wizard's actor is in it.
    Arrowverse is winding down - hey, it's been a decade, and HBO Max is getting prioritized over the CW. The new "Arrowverse" is going to be - the DCEU. Peacemaker is just the start. There won't be a separate connected TV universe, there'll be just the DCEU as the main line, and some non-connected stuff like Joker or The Batman on occasion.
    Well, we've got Zatanna, Batgirl, Peacemaker, maybe Black Canary, on HBOMax...but I don't see it being all connected or even tangentially relevant to each other.
    Trust me, this "doesn't feel like a real DCU" thing is going to be put to bed hard over the next few years. You'll be ecstatic over how everyone is cameoing and crossing over and teaming up again. Meanwhile I'll be the one where you are now feeling much less enthused about where DC is. Again, I've preferred this current less connected less obsessed with tie ins model, I don't want it to change. But it will. You are going to get exactly what you want, I won't.
    Would depend on how they handle it.

  12. #13752
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I have seen no indication that they are interested in pushing back to a connected shared universe aside from certain spinoffs and cameos. I think it's too early to assume that they're building up to that in any form.
    Really? I mean, if you're expecting them to officially come out and say as much you'll be waiting forever. But there's definite indications I think. They've set up replacements for the characters "damaged" by Snyder, rumors abound that they'll retcon/reboot some of the Snyder stuff via Flashpoint, they're setting up Keaton in a Hulk-like position to cameo other movies and have confirmed he'll be helping mentor Batgirl at least (there's two Batman replacements there), you could even arguably say they might be planning to replace Cyborg with Jaime Blue Beetle (POC tech-based hero niche), they're setting up like half the JSA in Black Adam and that Hourman movie, Black Canary's spinning out of BOP and is set to introduce a semi "active Batman" replacement with Green Arrow and there's rumors of Gotham City Sirens which could lead to BOP vs GCS so...

    Old Batman is replaced with Older Batman, Batgirl, and Green Arrow
    Superman is replaced by Supergirl (and possibly later one of the two black Supermen)
    Justice League is replaced by Justice Society
    Building up to more teams like Birds of Prey and Gotham City Sirens

    That's a lot of groundwork being set up for a lot of crossovers and team ups if you ask me. If that's not indicating they're pivoting back more to the "shared" aspect of their shared universe then I don't know what better evidence you could ask for - unless you're holding out hope that they will just say it out loud, or expect them to bring back the Justice League (they won't, not until a decade's about passed since the last one failed). I mean, you don't have to believe it'll lead to something, but it seems a tad dismissive to say there's nothing to indicate a change coming. It's just not going to connect in the usual manner of setting up more of the JL any time soon. But building up to big team up movies with the JSA and BOP and GCS and maybe more SS and those teams crossing over for big Endgame level events with Batman and Superman replacements, I'd say that's a plan for which there's quite a few indicators for. At least, that's how it seems like it's planned to play out to me.

    I would hope so, but I don't know if it's for certain. I'm kind of surprised they haven't confirmed if The Wizard's actor is in it.
    Well, if he's only necessary for a bit part in the origin flashback, I could see them not being in a rush to confirm it. They'd much rather push the actors for the eventual JSA movie down the line that they're introducing in this film I think.

    Well, we've got Zatanna, Batgirl, Peacemaker, maybe Black Canary, on HBOMax...but I don't see it being all connected or even tangentially relevant to each other.
    Really? How so? Or maybe rather, how come? Peacemaker is already connected to TSS (which arguably also connects him to BOP and Black Canary and etc through Harley, so possibilities there for the future), Batgirl is the next place Keaton's Batman is going to show up, Zatanna is integral to their Justice League Dark plans (another team for the uber crossover events) and is often connected to the Batfamily side of things, and Black Canary bring in Green Arrow, is often connected to the the Batfam, and keeps up the connections to BOP and Harley. I mean, that's a lot of stuff that in the comics is a lot more than just "tangentially" connected. I mean, these are properties that easily tie into each other through the Batman/Gotham/Harley/SS and JLD prism. So I'm kind of surprised you don't see how they might build up and cross over and connect.

    Would depend on how they handle it.
    That's always the catch isn't it?

  13. #13753
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    Yeah, I wouldn't say they're abandoning the shared universe just yet

  14. #13754
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Really? I mean, if you're expecting them to officially come out and say as much you'll be waiting forever. But there's definite indications I think. They've set up replacements for the characters "damaged" by Snyder, rumors abound that they'll retcon/reboot some of the Snyder stuff via Flashpoint, they're setting up Keaton in a Hulk-like position to cameo other movies and have confirmed he'll be helping mentor Batgirl at least (there's two Batman replacements there), you could even arguably say they might be planning to replace Cyborg with Jaime Blue Beetle (POC tech-based hero niche), they're setting up like half the JSA in Black Adam and that Hourman movie, Black Canary's spinning out of BOP and is set to introduce a semi "active Batman" replacement with Green Arrow and there's rumors of Gotham City Sirens which could lead to BOP vs GCS so...

    Old Batman is replaced with Older Batman, Batgirl, and Green Arrow
    Superman is replaced by Supergirl (and possibly later one of the two black Supermen)
    Justice League is replaced by Justice Society
    Building up to more teams like Birds of Prey and Gotham City Sirens

    That's a lot of groundwork being set up for a lot of crossovers and team ups if you ask me. If that's not indicating they're pivoting back more to the "shared" aspect of their shared universe then I don't know what better evidence you could ask for - unless you're holding out hope that they will just say it out loud, or expect them to bring back the Justice League (they won't, not until a decade's about passed since the last one failed). I mean, you don't have to believe it'll lead to something, but it seems a tad dismissive to say there's nothing to indicate a change coming. It's just not going to connect in the usual manner of setting up more of the JL any time soon. But building up to big team up movies with the JSA and BOP and GCS and maybe more SS and those teams crossing over for big Endgame level events with Batman and Superman replacements, I'd say that's a plan for which there's quite a few indicators for. At least, that's how it seems like it's planned to play out to me.
    I think the potential is there but I don't think that absolutely means it's all going to crossover together rather than remain relatively standalone within themselves. I don't think they're thinking that far ahead or at least planning it out that far head beyond certain individual movies or series as they come.

    We don't know yet whether they're going to expand the JSA at all on the movie side. I don't think Hourman is going to have anything to do with it if they use Matthew Tyler.

    It just seems like they're just moving forward with stuff individually and in an isolated fashion with some exception. There's no grand or concrete continuity behind it. I don't expect WB to comment on anything because they seem pretty laissez faire on the continuity at this point.
    Well, if he's only necessary for a bit part in the origin flashback, I could see them not being in a rush to confirm it. They'd much rather push the actors for the eventual JSA movie down the line that they're introducing in this film I think.
    I guess if it's a small enough scene they would confirm it closer to release. I don't think he was even confirmed to be back for the Shazam sequel until we saw him on set, unless I'm mis-remembering.
    Really? How so? Or maybe rather, how come? Peacemaker is already connected to TSS (which arguably also connects him to BOP and Black Canary and etc through Harley, so possibilities there for the future), Batgirl is the next place Keaton's Batman is going to show up, Zatanna is integral to their Justice League Dark plans (another team for the uber crossover events) and is often connected to the Batfamily side of things, and Black Canary bring in Green Arrow, is often connected to the the Batfam, and keeps up the connections to BOP and Harley. I mean, that's a lot of stuff that in the comics is a lot more than just "tangentially" connected. I mean, these are properties that easily tie into each other through the Batman/Gotham/Harley/SS and JLD prism. So I'm kind of surprised you don't see how they might build up and cross over and connect.
    Peacemaker is connected to TSS but beyond the same actors I view that as a standalone and not likely to crossover with anything else DC related.

    Zatanna is building up JLD but, again, I assume that will be its own thing. I don't think anyone in the JLD is going to, say, mention Superman or Batman or have them be relevant at all to those stories. It's more like a JJ Abrams corner of DC stuff than part of a wider movie universe.

    I guess they could still build on the BoP stuff in the Black Canary series rather than let it languish because the movie didn't do well.
    That's always the catch isn't it?
    It's always in the execution...

  15. #13755
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think the potential is there but I don't think that absolutely means it's all going to crossover together rather than remain relatively standalone within themselves. I don't think they're thinking that far ahead or at least planning it out that far head beyond certain individual movies or series as they come.

    We don't know yet whether they're going to expand the JSA at all on the movie side. I don't think Hourman is going to have anything to do with it if they use Matthew Tyler.

    It just seems like they're just moving forward with stuff individually and in an isolated fashion with some exception. There's no grand or concrete continuity behind it. I don't expect WB to comment on anything because they seem pretty laissez faire on the continuity at this point.

    I guess if it's a small enough scene they would confirm it closer to release. I don't think he was even confirmed to be back for the Shazam sequel until we saw him on set, unless I'm mis-remembering.

    Peacemaker is connected to TSS but beyond the same actors I view that as a standalone and not likely to crossover with anything else DC related.

    Zatanna is building up JLD but, again, I assume that will be its own thing. I don't think anyone in the JLD is going to, say, mention Superman or Batman or have them be relevant at all to those stories. It's more like a JJ Abrams corner of DC stuff than part of a wider movie universe.

    I guess they could still build on the BoP stuff in the Black Canary series rather than let it languish because the movie didn't do well.

    It's always in the execution...
    I could argue with every single one of those arguments, but it's pointless. It's all "I feel" and "I don't think", aka you've made up your mind on an emotional level and no amount of arguing, debating, theorizing, or showing evidence of how easily it could all connect together is going to dissuade you from a gut feeling. I guess I just don't see why to make an emotions based assumption here. But to each their own. If it's any help, I do very much wish that you prove me wrong in time and your assumptions are correct - I very much would prefer your version of upcoming films than the "connected universe is back y'all!" version I see happening. A one film at a time doing and being it's own thing laissez faire approach is one I want more than anything right now after all the "it must be connected" universe stuff of the MCU and DCAMU etc. So frankly, I'd rather not argue the point with you, because I'm basically arguing for the probability of the big connected planned out universe that I don't want. So, here's hoping your gut feeling here trumps my "attempt to think like a Hollywood exec" approach with what we know or have rumored so far.

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