DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[John Venus]

It would have been even easier if they had just made a low budget Flash movie instead of using his solo movie to reboot their universe and turning it into a vehicle for a bunch of spin off films. Once Ezra Miller went off the rails they could have renegotiated contracts and just dumped the movie on HBO Max. Probably would have been released earlier too.

[Rac7d*]

It would have been even easier if they had just made a low budget Flash movie instead of using his solo movie to reboot their universe and turning it into a vehicle for a bunch of spin off films. Once Ezra Miller went off the rails they could have renegotiated contracts and just dumped the movie on HBO Max. Probably would have been released earlier too.

No it wouldn’t this idea was good no one could predict Ezra becoming crazy. It’s unfortunate that all of DC hinges on this film releasing but we’re three films to far from halting that and the ideas of scrapping 700 mill worth of films just becuase is ludicrous.

[Holt]

Eh, YMMV on the initial idea being good. I understand they were in a difficult spot since they'd lost about half their Justice League and wanted to move away from the Snyder stuff, but I don't think they needed to have Flash be a vehicle for a reboot. They could have just recast the departing characters and continued to ignore the Knightmare stuff like they'd already been doing for several years without having to have an in-universe explanation for why Superman and Cyborg disappeared or why Batman suddenly no longer looks like Ben Affleck. Though in the case of Batman I at least understand they were in a bit of a difficult spot with Reeves already rebooting the character in a new universe.

[Kingdom X]

It would have been even easier if they had just made a low budget Flash movie instead of using his solo movie to reboot their universe and turning it into a vehicle for a bunch of spin off films. Once Ezra Miller went off the rails they could have renegotiated contracts and just dumped the movie on HBO Max. Probably would have been released earlier too.

Even more so than that they should have made a film that allows for a reboot or continuity changes in an open ended way. That way they could actually gauge response to the film to make key decisions. But nah it’s DC and they had to jump the gun and have multiple films in the pipeline that are dependent on this production that’s been troubled from the VERY beginning.

[Frontier]

At this point though isn't it a blessing to have all these non-Flash characters in The Flash? Just trot out Sasha, Keaton, Affleck and Kiersey Clemmons for the press rounds and they should be fine.

I mean, it feels weird to say for a Flash movie but I guess that's what we're stuck with.

Personally I just wanted a Flash movie that spotlighted Barry, have him fight his actual villains, and show off his life as a Superhero. But now we've got Multiverse, AU's, reviving old versions of characters, and rebooting.

[John Venus]

Anyway, DC's problems lies in not believing in their characters beyond Superman and Batman, not understanding them well enough to profit off of them even after they're successful (WW and Aquaman) and not being in touch with what a majority of their fan base wants (although said fanbase has a hard time agreeing with each other).

They're also so focused on building a cinematic universe and movies that are meant to be happen in the future they forget the movie in front of them.

'Everything Everywhere All At Once' was a much better Multiverse movie than Dr Strange 2. I remember when WW2017 came out some of my friends mentioned how they liked it better than the first Captain America movie with WW17 explored the consequences of war better than Cap's movie did. DC doesn't need to consume itself trying to launch a cinematic universe or define itself based on whatever Marvel is doing, they just need to make good movies set in the genre that appropriate for their characters.

They also need to figure out what their strength's are beyond just saying 'iCoNIc chAracTeRs', at least for me DC's strengths has always been:

-Much richer Golden Age history. The JSA/All Star Squadron > Cap and the Invaders.

-Much richer magical world. Zatanna/Dr Fate/Morpheus/Wonder Woman > Dr Strange & Friends

-Stronger legacy heroes. I prefer Teen Titans and Young Justice over Young Avengers. Wally West > Bucky Barnes

-Stories can be set in any time, past (JSA), present, (JLA, Teen Titans) and the far flung future (Legion of Superheroes)

-Sub universe's like Vertigo and the Milestone imprint. Plus other characters DC acquired over the years. What Marvel tried to do several years by having their family friendly movies but also partnering with Netflix to have a Defenders 'sub universe' where you can tell darker and more mature stories would probably have worked better if they had applied to DC & Vertigo or if they want more family friendly crossovers, DC & Milestone.

-Characters and franchises can be standalone but also a part of a greater whole. With Marvel, every character has to be connected. With DC you can enjoy Superman, Batman and Flash being solo heroes even without the cross overs.

[John Venus]

Eh, YMMV on the initial idea being good. I understand they were in a difficult spot since they'd lost about half their Justice League and wanted to move away from the Snyder stuff, but I don't think they needed to have Flash be a vehicle for a reboot. They could have just recast the departing characters and continued to ignore the Knightmare stuff like they'd already been doing for several years without having to have an in-universe explanation for why Superman and Cyborg disappeared or why Batman suddenly no longer looks like Ben Affleck. Though in the case of Batman I at least understand they were in a bit of a difficult spot with Reeves already rebooting the character in a new universe.

Even more so than that they should have made a film that allows for a reboot or continuity changes in an open ended way. That way they could actually gauge response to the film to make key decisions. But nah itÂ’s DC and they had to jump the gun and have multiple films in the pipeline that are dependent on this production thatÂ’s been troubled from the VERY beginning.

I don't like Snyder's choices but I don't think a reboot was even necessary. Just tell better stories set in the same continuity. If you don't like the old continuity maybe start a new one. Since when did movies need to mimic one of the worst staples in comics? Nobody cared about why James Bond didn't look like Pierce Brosnan anymore nor did we need an explanation for whether Judi Dench's M was the same M from the Brosnan era. It's fun to wonder whether Bond is a code name but no, we just moved along. Casino Royale was good and we just went with it. It's only a problem when you have heavily contradictory continuity like the Highlander (movie) and tv show levels of confusion. Otherwise, historically, mainstream audiences are cool with 'soft' reboots. Plus they are able to comprehend stuff like the Multiverse now. They'll be able to comprehend that yes, this is a universe, Keaton is Batman now but his Gordon is JK Simmons. Do a Supergirl movie for Sasha Calle, have Henry Cavill as Superman guest star in it then launch him again in his own solo feature once again. No need to have a Batgirl and the entire future of the DCEU hinge on a Flash movie.

[Vakanai]

She's hard to see but Donna Troy is there all the way in the background lol. But yeah no WW? So DC has no plans for her outside the next movie 3 years down the road?

Aren't they making a videogame? Might just not have given him any concept art or anything to draw Wondie-wise. Doesn't mean that she's getting nothing just yet.

[InfamousBG]

Anyway, DC's problems lies in not believing in their characters beyond Superman and Batman, not understanding them well enough to profit off of them even after they're successful (WW and Aquaman) and not being in touch with what a majority of their fan base wants (although said fanbase has a hard time agreeing with each other).

They're also so focused on building a cinematic universe and movies that are meant to be happen in the future they forget the movie in front of them.

'Everything Everywhere All At Once' was a much better Multiverse movie than Dr Strange 2. I remember when WW2017 came out some of my friends mentioned how they liked it better than the first Captain America movie with WW17 explored the consequences of war better than Cap's movie did. DC doesn't need to consume itself trying to launch a cinematic universe or define itself based on whatever Marvel is doing, they just need to make good movies set in the genre that appropriate for their characters.

They also need to figure out what their strength's are beyond just saying 'iCoNIc chAracTeRs', at least for me DC's strengths has always been:

-Much richer Golden Age history. The JSA/All Star Squadron > Cap and the Invaders.

-Much richer magical world. Zatanna/Dr Fate/Morpheus/Wonder Woman > Dr Strange & Friends

-Stronger legacy heroes. I prefer Teen Titans and Young Justice over Young Avengers. Wally West > Bucky Barnes

-Stories can be set in any time, past (JSA), present, (JLA, Teen Titans) and the far flung future (Legion of Superheroes)

-Sub universe's like Vertigo and the Milestone imprint. Plus other characters DC acquired over the years. What Marvel tried to do several years by having their family friendly movies but also partnering with Netflix to have a Defenders 'sub universe' where you can tell darker and more mature stories would probably have worked better if they had applied to DC & Vertigo or if they want more family friendly crossovers, DC & Milestone.

-Characters and franchises can be standalone but also a part of a greater whole. With Marvel, every character has to be connected. With DC you can enjoy Superman, Batman and Flash being solo heroes even without the cross overs.

This all sounds perfect...except WB would never go for any of it. Its about Batman. That is all I see right now. Superman? I think WB does not know what to do with him which is insane.

You put Cavill, with a good writer, a good script, flying around a big city, saving the day, standing on rooftops when the sun sets, helping a kid cross the road, saving a lost ship, fighting a big bad villian or keeping it as simple as Lex. It cant be that difficult.

I am sorry but I thought the Man of Steel was trash. Especially the ending. I loved Cavill but the whole script was a dumpster fire.

WB and DC could fix all of this. They just wont.

[Vakanai]

I don't like Snyder's choices but I don't think a reboot was even necessary. Just tell better stories set in the same continuity. If you don't like the old continuity maybe start a new one. Since when did movies need to mimic one of the worst staples in comics? Nobody cared about why James Bond didn't look like Pierce Brosnan anymore nor did we need an explanation for whether Judi Dench's M was the same M from the Brosnan era. It's fun to wonder whether Bond is a code name but no, we just moved along. Casino Royale was good and we just went with it. It's only a problem when you have heavily contradictory continuity like the Highlander (movie) and tv show levels of confusion. Otherwise, historically, mainstream audiences are cool with 'soft' reboots. Plus they are able to comprehend stuff like the Multiverse now. They'll be able to comprehend that yes, this is a universe, Keaton is Batman now but his Gordon is JK Simmons. Do a Supergirl movie for Sasha Calle, have Henry Cavill as Superman guest star in it then launch him again in his own solo feature once again. No need to have a Batgirl and the entire future of the DCEU hinge on a Flash movie.

I agree with you on everything but Henry Cavill as Superman. I'm more than ready for him to be recast already.

[InfamousBG]

I agree with you on everything but Henry Cavill as Superman. I'm more than ready for him to be recast already.

Recasting him will be tough. In my opinion he looked great in the role. It was just WB, Snyder and the awful scripts that ruined it for him. The suit was a big joke as well. Should have stayed old school instead of the New 52 look.

[Vakanai]

Recasting him will be tough. In my opinion he looked great in the role. It was just WB, Snyder and the awful scripts that ruined it for him. The suit was a big joke as well. Should have stayed old school instead of the New 52 look.

It's really not that difficult in my opinion. All he ever had going for him was looking great in the part, and there must be thousands of actors who can pull that off. He isn't a particularly skilled actor or anything. I like him well enough, but I want a Superman without all the Snyderverse baggage. I mean, I'm well known around here for absolutely hating the idea of making the CW actors into the film actors for these characters, like everyone knows that I think it's such a dumb desire to have the same actor across cheap tv shows and big budget films, and despite that even I would rather see Hoechlin's Superman up on the big screen than Cavill's again. But I'd really rather someone new.

Edit: I actually loved the suit, so much better than cloth/spandex looking stuff with the red underwear on the outside.

[InfamousBG]

It's really not that difficult in my opinion. All he ever had going for him was looking great in the part, and there must be thousands of actors who can pull that off. He isn't a particularly skilled actor or anything. I like him well enough, but I want a Superman without all the Snyderverse baggage. I mean, I'm well known around here for absolutely hating the idea of making the CW actors into the film actors for these characters, like everyone knows that I think it's such a dumb desire to have the same actor across cheap tv shows and big budget films, and despite that even I would rather see Hoechlin's Superman up on the big screen than Cavill's again. But I'd really rather someone new.

Edit: I actually loved the suit, so much better than cloth/spandex looking stuff with the red underwear on the outside.

See i just hated the New 52 that bad that I did not want to see Superman in that kind of suit on screen. I agree with the old spandex and underwear. I just kind of wanted a updated version.

I am not the biggest Superman and Lois fan (I have only watched it here or there) but I do love Hoechlin's Superman. He kills it as Clark and Superman. I love the woman playing lois as well. Now that looks like Lois Lane, not some red head like in the Man of Steel.

[Vakanai]

See i just hated the New 52 that bad that I did not want to see Superman in that kind of suit on screen. I agree with the old spandex and underwear. I just kind of wanted a updated version.

I am not the biggest Superman and Lois fan (I have only watched it here or there) but I do love Hoechlin's Superman. He kills it as Clark and Superman. I love the woman playing lois as well. Now that looks like Lois Lane, not some red head like in the Man of Steel.

Eh, I thought it was different from the new 52. Not all the busy lines, different cut. Really only screamed new 52 in the whole no trunks thing, which I wanted for years.

I think that there's more to Lois Lane than hair color or a specific look, but I'm not going to poke holes for CW Lois who might be the best on screen Lois ever. Everything that is Lois she's got in spades.

[John Venus]

This all sounds perfect...except WB would never go for any of it. Its about Batman. That is all I see right now. Superman? I think WB does not know what to do with him which is insane.

You put Cavill, with a good writer, a good script, flying around a big city, saving the day, standing on rooftops when the sun sets, helping a kid cross the road, saving a lost ship, fighting a big bad villian or keeping it as simple as Lex. It cant be that difficult.

I am sorry but I thought the Man of Steel was trash. Especially the ending. I loved Cavill but the whole script was a dumpster fire.

WB and DC could fix all of this. They just wont.

Sadly true.

I agree with you on everything but Henry Cavill as Superman. I'm more than ready for him to be recast already.

I chose him primarily because he was the cinematic Supes and I think he deserves another shot.

My personal preference would be Brandon Routh. It's funny I thought he was okay in Superman Returns but seeing suited up as KC Superman for the CW COIE crossover and hearing that Kevin Conroy was going to play Bruce Wanye in live action was the first time in a long time that I felt a child like joy for a DC project. I thought Routh and Conroy were ultimately underutilized in the cross over but I would love to see him and Conroy in a live action KC movie with Lucy Lawless as WW (obviously they would have to fix some of the issues with WW's characterization in KC).