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  1. #12091
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    For what it's worth, Zues being a notorious rapist is one of many reasons I hate him being Diana's father. Everything about her works better when she is made and raised entirely by women.

  2. #12092
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    To me its kinda same thing as people talking about Hal's family getting a bad showing in Morrison's GL run. Batman and Superman pretty much had perfect parents (Superman even got two pairs of perfect parents!), some heroes shouldn't be as lucky otherwise it is kinda sending a message that if you didn't have a perfect family well then, you are likely not going to turn out that well. And we often see it in villain origins where go-to solution is "oh, bad father was beating him so he turned out bad".

    Wonder Woman not being defined by her father and pretty much standing opposite of him is a story that has meat on its bones.

  3. #12093
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    To me its kinda same thing as people talking about Hal's family getting a bad showing in Morrison's GL run. Batman and Superman pretty much had perfect parents (Superman even got two pairs of perfect parents!), some heroes shouldn't be as lucky otherwise it is kinda sending a message that if you didn't have a perfect family well then, you are likely not going to turn out that well. And we often see it in villain origins where go-to solution is "oh, bad father was beating him so he turned out bad".

    Wonder Woman not being defined by her father and pretty much standing opposite of him is a story that has meat on its bones.
    I just don't like the figure of female empowerment having her story changed to being the daughter of one of mythology's most notorious serial rapists and it constantly being used as a source of her power. It's always about the god powers her rapist dad gave her, not so much being an Amazon.

    The clay origin made her strictly the efforts of women putting forth a champion of their ideals and unleashing her into a male-dominated field to knock some sense into the boys.

    And to be petty, as a person of Greek heritage, fuck Zues. I'm tired of that incestuous rapist-- real or not-- having anything to do with Diana other than being an obstacle to overcome. Diana never needed his seed to be the premier female superhero and she still doesn't. Ditch that awful origin. Every time they make her draw on his powers or gifts to overcome a threat I die a little inside. He's the last figure who should ever empower a symbol for women.
    Last edited by Robanker; 05-11-2021 at 12:19 AM.

  4. #12094
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    I forgot to mention previously, it was in an issue of Wonder Woman ( I don't know which, but the issue was from 2020), Hippolyta mentions to Diana that she is just like her father.
    Last edited by Veni; 05-11-2021 at 01:04 AM.

  5. #12095
    Ultimate Life Form BlackClaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I just don't like the figure of female empowerment having her story changed to being the daughter of one of mythology's most notorious serial rapists and it constantly being used as a source of her power. It's always about the god powers her rapist dad gave her, not so much being an Amazon.

    The clay origin made her strictly the efforts of women putting forth a champion of their ideals and unleashing her into a male-dominated field to knock some sense into the boys.

    And to be petty, as a person of Greek heritage, fuck Zues. I'm tired of that incestuous rapist-- real or not-- having anything to do with Diana other than being an obstacle to overcome. Diana never needed his seed to be the premier female superhero and she still doesn't. Ditch that awful origin. Every time they make her draw on his powers or gifts to overcome a threat I die a little inside. He's the last figure who should ever empower a symbol for women.
    Fuck all the Greek gods except Hades and Hephaestus really. This is why I liked it when it was revealed DCEU Ares killed them all.
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  6. #12096
    Extraordinary Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Hey come on now, Aphrodite can get it. Duh. Hera gets some sympathies from me too these days, because how much can you really blame her for how she's like given what her husband's been doing since the freaking dawn of time. Zeus being messed up after what his father did to him and his siblings isn't too surprising but it's not exactly an excuse for his actions either. I wish more Hollywood adaptations showed why the ancient Greek or Norse gods were not exactly the benevolent deities they're usually portrayed as. But overall I don't have an issue with WW being related to Zeus. Never really bothered me.
    Last edited by Johnny; 05-11-2021 at 02:23 AM.

  7. #12097
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    Wonder Woman not being defined by her father and pretty much standing opposite of him is a story that has meat on its bones.
    There are plenty of female characters who fill that niche already. Let Diana be Diana.

  8. #12098
    Mighty Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Zeus is dead in the comics and the movies.

    As long as Diana doesn’t announce herself as “daughter of Zeus” before “daughter of Hippolyta” I’ll be alright.

    Edit: Also I agree the most important part of her origin is being raised by a matriarchal society that all love her, and that her origin isn’t dark and gritty like many hero origins often are. The Zeus stuff is ew but if they treat Zeus like the most absent of absent fathers I can get around it.
    Last edited by I'm a Fish; 05-11-2021 at 02:35 AM.

  9. #12099
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    There are plenty of female characters who fill that niche already. Let Diana be Diana.
    Has this origin made her someone else?

  10. #12100
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Has this origin made her someone else?
    What If Krypton hadn't been destroyed but they had just sent Kal el away. Would that make him someone else? Don't you understand that there is meaning behind these stories and that all that meaning matters? Specially with Wonder Woman. Marston was far ahead of Superman and Batman when he created Wonder Woman. Every single aspect of the character had huge meaning that connected to the message this character was trying to send about gender roles and society and virtues becoming power.

    Why replace a great story with a less great story?

  11. #12101
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Maybe not everyone agrees that it is less great?

  12. #12102
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    Maybe not everyone agrees that it is less great?
    It has less meaning. I think that's a pretty objective downgrade.

  13. #12103
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Has this origin made her someone else?
    What was the point of changing it in the first place? What was wrong with the original origin? Were the Amazons somehow less special than Zeus?

    Origins are the fertile soil upon which stories grow and branch out. Changing it only moves Diana further away from the themes and stories that she is supposed to tell. She is not someone rebelling against her father, she is a product of an all female society who sees our world from an entirely different perspective and meant to show the world a better way of treating each other.

  14. #12104
    Mighty Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Also I think the best comparison to Zeus being Diana’s father would be if Martha Wayne was revealed to have cheated and Bruce wasn’t Thomas’ son.

    And then if you want to rub more salt into that you could reveal she was having an affair with the man who killed them in the ally (I suddenly forgot his name). So Bruce was actually his kid all along.

  15. #12105
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    You also gotta "love" how it never occurred to them to just give her a mortal father if she needs to have one. Why not a rebooted Prince Theno from the Silver Age? That way he can just bow out of the narrative (like all the superhero moms) while all the focus is on Hippolyta and she can get her power from someone else

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackClaw View Post
    Fuck all the Greek gods except Hades and Hephaestus really. This is why I liked it when it was revealed DCEU Ares killed them all.
    Even with Hephaestus, I think there is a myth where he sexually assaults Athena and his sperm landing on the Earth made monsters or something (lol Greek gods).

    Hestia is really the one with a clean track record ("I'm just gonna tend the fire guys. Go about your business. It's like I'm not even here.")

    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    And to be petty, as a person of Greek heritage, fuck Zues. I'm tired of that incestuous rapist-- real or not-- having anything to do with Diana other than being an obstacle to overcome. Diana never needed his seed to be the premier female superhero and she still doesn't. Ditch that awful origin. Every time they make her draw on his powers or gifts to overcome a threat I die a little inside. He's the last figure who should ever empower a symbol for women.
    Seeing him fight alongside the Amazons in the Snyder Cut was cringe inducing for this very reason.
    It should have been Athena

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