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  1. #8131
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    One liners while fighting a supervillain are a different story, IMO. That I could see, as long as noncombatants weren't in harms way.
    I mean, I don't see any difference because you're making light of a life or death situation one way or another.

  2. #8132
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I mean, I don't see any difference because you're making light of a life or death situation one way or another.
    I don't know. It seems disrespectful to me, but I haven't fought any supervillains, so what do I know?
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  3. #8133
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I mean, I don't see any difference because you're making light of a life or death situation one way or another.
    Rationally yes - but movies are more emotional experiences.

  4. #8134

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    Humor is a coping mechanism. Watch (the original) Die Hard movie, Bruce Willis was cracking jokes the whole movie, but I never thought he wasn’t afraid for his and the hostage’s lives.
    How realistic or disrespectful it is or isn’t to have people quip in life or death situations, I couldn’t say. I too, have never fought a supervillain.

  5. #8135
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    People complained about Clark and Lois's "it's all down hill after the first kiss" joke when he saved her from the black hole. If he had been making jokes during the fight with Zod, people who hated him would have further shredded him apart.

  6. #8136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Logically sure, but it is a staple of the action genre to offset the violence with a lighter tone. Audiences are used to it, and the MCU thrives on it. All the destruction, but everyone is cool with it because Iron Man is making fun of Loki.

    Also the music helps. Light and exhilarating action music vs a more subdued or sombre track.
    Not only basically every single Zimmer's track makes the entirety of the Avengers series music look (sound?) like an inconvenience, the idea you have to mindlessly cater to the lowest common denominator and make most of the characters interchangeable quip drones is the exact reason why I can't stand the MCU anymore and why this discussions got completely out of hand AFAIC.

  7. #8137
    Extraordinary Member Doctor Know's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    You're probably right, but the idea of joking around when people are getting hurt or even killed seems nonsensical to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, modern Robin's quip and make jokes while fighting killers and deranged madmen...the comic book genre just has a lot of contrasting tones .
    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    One liners while fighting a supervillain are a different story, IMO. That I could see, as long as noncombatants weren't in harms way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Logically sure, but it is a staple of the action genre to offset the violence with a lighter tone. Audiences are used to it, and the MCU thrives on it. All the destruction, but everyone is cool with it because Iron Man is making fun of Loki.

    Also the music helps. Light and exhilarating action music vs a more subdued or sombre track.
    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    Humor is a coping mechanism. Watch (the original) Die Hard movie, Bruce Willis was cracking jokes the whole movie, but I never thought he wasn’t afraid for his and the hostage’s lives.
    How realistic or disrespectful it is or isn’t to have people quip in life or death situations, I couldn’t say. I too, have never fought a supervillain.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    People complained about Clark and Lois's "it's all down hill after the first kiss" joke when he saved her from the black hole. If he had been making jokes during the fight with Zod, people who hated him would have further shredded him apart.
    There is something to use of humor in dramatic action scenes and the audience responses to it.

    Take a look at this scene from Iron Man 3. It came out in the same summer as MOS.



    Now imagine if Superman had quipped that line or something similar after killing Zod. Tony spares none of the extremsis soldiers. Even though the process can be reversed and the people cured.


    People say they want the DC films to have jokes and humor like the MCU films. Then you remind people of Age of Ultron. With it's nonstop one-liners and quips. Which at the time people defended but now people (even MCU fans) find grating. Recall that, at the time, Age of Ultron was the "response" to films like MOS and Transformers 3. Substituting the serious nature of their content with mile a minute jokes that weren't funny. I said, at the time, that if you wind the clock back to the 90s, with the Brosnan era Bond films. Nobody was laughing at his corny puns and one-liners (Christmas comes twice a year - cringe).

    Now, films like GOTG, Spider-Man and Ant-Man thrive in a more comedy setting. Things get absurd when you have Dr. Strange make 3 Beyonce jokes in one movie. A movie about dark wizards and Dormammu trying to end the world. Black Panther makes a "what are those?" internet meme joke reference. While Klaw and Killmonger are dropping bodies.

    I'm not against humor at all, but a lot of the MCU's humor seems out of place for the stories they're trying to tell. But if it's all in the name of fun and escapisim, I think many audience goers and critics give it a pass. Despite how awful a lot of the attempts at comedy are.


    Credit to Avengers 3 and 4 really toning the humor down and localized it to the comic relief characters.
    Last edited by Doctor Know; 06-29-2020 at 08:16 AM.

  8. #8138
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Know View Post
    Credit to Avengers 3 and 4 really toning the humor down and localized it to the comic relief characters.
    To the point of having to turn serious characters into comedy relief characters...looking at you, Hulk and Thor.

  9. #8139
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamTPTK View Post
    Not only basically every single Zimmer's track makes the entirety of the Avengers series music look (sound?) like an inconvenience, the idea you have to mindlessly cater to the lowest common denominator and make most of the characters interchangeable quip drones is the exact reason why I can't stand the MCU anymore and why this discussions got completely out of hand AFAIC.
    What makes you think the discussion is out of hand?

    And the MCU isn't divisive like this film, and the music contributes to the tone.

  10. #8140
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    What makes you think the discussion is out of hand?

    And the MCU isn't divisive like this film, and the music contributes to the tone.

    I believe, This is what he is talking about. Mcu largely feels corporate manufactured factory made products than movies, most of the time. There is no authorial intent coming from many of the movies. Do you really want superman, batman.. Etc to be presented as a soulless product of the corporate machinery? i remember superman's themes(both willims and zimmer's) ,Yet i can only vaguely remember avengers, captain america's theme and the rest are not even recallable. Btw, what the guy in the video did with cap scene is amazing. I do agree , those movies do desensitise violence and destruction for audience consumption.

  11. #8141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    What makes you think the discussion is out of hand?

    And the MCU isn't divisive like this film, and the music contributes to the tone.
    Acting like forgettable, vanilla flicks like Ragnarok, Shazam or Homecoming are some how "certified cinema" while MoS is the opposite would be a big chunk of it. I would rather art make me conflicted (MoS) than I would feel nothing about it (80% of MCU). But hey feeling nothing isn't divisive too.

    And when it comes to music, what Zimmer did with MoS and BvS should be examined as a class of its own. One of the best scores ever written. That's of course subjective, but the praise of his work there isn't.
    Last edited by adamTPTK; 06-29-2020 at 11:18 AM.

  12. #8142
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    https://youtu.be/7vfqkvwW2fs
    I believe, This is what he is talking about. Mcu largely feels corporate manufactured factory made products than movies, most of the time. There is no authorial intent coming from many of the movies. Do you really want superman, batman.. Etc to be presented as a soulless product of the corporate machinery? i remember superman's themes(both willims and zimmer's) ,Yet i can only vaguely remember avengers, captain america's theme and the rest are not even recallable. Btw, what the guy in the video did with cap scene is amazing. I do agree , those movies do desensitise violence and destruction for audience consumption.
    I think that's more a common business practice problem rather then just marvel though, considering your video example shows when zack snyder had copied music so blatantly from another films soundtrack that Warner brothers had to apologize for it. Honestly I'm pretty sure the reason The Bridge of Khazad Dum wasn't copied into man of steel was because everyone noticed it immediately.

    And personally I don't mind that a soundtrack is in the background considering wonder womans theme took me out of the film for both BvS and the wonder woman film. I remember that theme tune for all the wrong reasons to be honest, and that's not because of the simple drum beat going over and over again.

    Also do we have to use phrases like "lowest common denominator" and "manufactured". I mean the Snyder cut movement already as an image of looking down at people by often saying "it's too smart for general audiences" which is pretty funny if you ask me.
    Last edited by ssupes; 06-29-2020 at 12:00 PM.

  13. #8143
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post

    I believe, This is what he is talking about. Mcu largely feels corporate manufactured factory made products than movies, most of the time. There is no authorial intent coming from many of the movies. Do you really want superman, batman.. Etc to be presented as a soulless product of the corporate machinery? i remember superman's themes(both willims and zimmer's) ,Yet i can only vaguely remember avengers, captain america's theme and the rest are not even recallable. Btw, what the guy in the video did with cap scene is amazing. I do agree , those movies do desensitise violence and destruction for audience consumption.
    Yes, but those corporate products are successful, popular, and don't lead to such divisive fan wars like Man of Steel. And desensitizing the violence is part of that success, along with the forgettable yet serviceable music.
    Quote Originally Posted by adamTPTK View Post
    Acting like forgettable, vanilla flicks like Ragnarok, Shazam or Homecoming are some how "certified cinema" while MoS is the opposite would be a big chunk of it. I would rather art make me conflicted (MoS) than I would feel nothing about it (80% of MCU). But hey feeling nothing isn't divisive too.

    And when it comes to music, what Zimmer did with MoS and BvS should be examined as a class of its own. One of the best scores ever written. That's of course subjective, but the praise of his work there isn't.
    Hey, Shazam was fun and damn good! Liked it so much more than Homecoming.

    And no one mentioned "certified cinema" here, just discussing why people don't like Man of Steel.

  14. #8144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Yes, but those corporate products are successful, popular, and don't lead to such divisive fan wars like Man of Steel. And desensitizing the violence is part of that success, along with the forgettable yet serviceable music.


    Hey, Shazam was fun and damn good! Liked it so much more than Homecoming.

    And no one mentioned "certified cinema" here, just discussing why people don't like Man of Steel.
    Between the abysmal villain and the kids' pretty unremarkable dynamics, I disagree. I can't possibly see how this movie and "getting their stuff together" when discussing DCEU can be put in the same sentence.
    Plenty of people act like MoS is some kind of irredeemable mess when its audience ratings are around the level of your average MCU flick and only a certain amount of detractors go to unparalleled lengths to try and make it seem as this a universally hated movie. Like, for reals. So yeah, it generated a devote cult of haters. From my experience, most of them also happen to love the MCU formula. I'm sorry, but this is the last chunk of people I'd ask what quality cinema is.
    What we should be discussing is how did MoS manage it themes? When it revisioned Krypton based off of Brave New World concepts, did it fit or not? Did a more paranoid version of Pa Kent have a point or not? What about Jor El's basically inventing the Superman as we know him. Was Clark's journey of self discovery satisfying or not? And so on. I just don't see it. It's always those hyper exaggeration to make everything into shallow "bad" "good". And everyone trying their best to convert the other. Which is sad because I think MoS even if stumbles makes at the very least a worthy superhero experience which happens to also ask relevant questions. And there aren't many superhero movies like these nowadays, thanks to you know who...

  15. #8145
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssupes View Post
    I think that's more a common business practice problem rather then just marvel though, considering your video example shows when zack snyder had copied music so blatantly from another films soundtrack that Warner brothers had to apologize for it. Honestly I'm pretty sure the reason The Bridge of Khazad Dum wasn't copied into man of steel was because everyone noticed it immediately.

    And personally I don't mind that a soundtrack is in the background considering wonder womans theme took me out of the film for both BvS and the wonder woman film. I remember that theme tune for all the wrong reasons to be honest, and that's not because of the simple drum beat going over and over again.

    Also do we have to use phrases like "lowest common denominator" and "manufactured". I mean the Snyder cut movement already as an image of looking down at people by often saying "it's too smart for general audiences" which is pretty funny if you ask me.
    As far as i am aware, trailers and actual movies are cut differently and sometimes by different people not necessarily the director.

    Well, wonder woman's music effing awesome for me. Ofcourse, sometimes you need to let real voice be at fore front. But, considering disney even put in background score in studio ghibli movies to remove "silences" with more noises. I do understand that being an issue.But,here i don't think so.

    No, it's not saying its too smart for audiences. It's saying different people see the world in different ways. Those view points is what creates different artistic endeavours. There might be wrongs, rights, agreeable and disagreeable things. But, all those things need to exist for it feel like it was made by someone . Moreover, it says wb is the only studio to apologise for copy a music. Studio still has last say in what to put in. Snyder isn't Christopher nolan and At the end of the day WB is business oriented . I mean, snyder did request people to actually go and read watchmen. So the guy has fair bit of respect of what he adapts and takes influence from.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Yes, but those corporate products are successful, popular, and don't lead to such divisive fan wars like Man of Steel. And desensitizing the violence is part of that success, along with the forgettable yet serviceable music.
    So? I should cheer for superman, batman.. Etc to be hollow for them to be successful? I think i will pass.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 06-29-2020 at 01:21 PM.

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