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  1. #8146
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    "I love mankind...it's people I can't stand!!"

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  2. #8147
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Jeez. I get Whedon may have cut out some of Vic's scenes but still.

  3. #8148
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    I get why Ray is mad, but I don't necessarily blame Whedon- at least not completely. He was brought in because WB decided WAY after the fact that they didn't like the direction Snyder was going, and he was probably mandated to make a much lighter movie. Unfortunately, in doing that Cyborg's role was cut back significantly.

    To be honest, what pissed ME off the most as a collector is that I'm looking at my collection of Justice League Hot Toy figures right now. I got the full line- which does not include Cyborg. For whatever reason, Hot Toys decided to release the other figures, but cancel the Cyborg figure, even after they showed it off at a Toy Fair a few years ago. So I'll never have the full roster, unless Cyborg is actually in the Flash movie and they finally release his figure for that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    To the point of having to turn serious characters into comedy relief characters...looking at you, Hulk and Thor.

    Eh, to be fair that really started in Thor: Ragnarok, though both characters have had funny moments in previous films.

  4. #8149
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    Eh, to be fair that really started in Thor: Ragnarok, though both characters have had funny moments in previous films.
    Its a Taika Waititi movie. The trailer says "I'm a comedy". Its not like Suicide Squad where the trailer says "I'm awesome and worth your money". I'd rather have more Shazams than MoS or BvS or JLs. Aquaman is flat out boring just like Captain Marvel or Doctor Strange or the first Thor.
    Last edited by batnbreakfast; 06-29-2020 at 09:27 PM.

  5. #8150
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    I get why Ray is mad, but I don't necessarily blame Whedon- at least not completely. He was brought in because WB decided WAY after the fact that they didn't like the direction Snyder was going, and he was probably mandated to make a much lighter movie. Unfortunately, in doing that Cyborg's role was cut back significantly.

    To be honest, what pissed ME off the most as a collector is that I'm looking at my collection of Justice League Hot Toy figures right now. I got the full line- which does not include Cyborg. For whatever reason, Hot Toys decided to release the other figures, but cancel the Cyborg figure, even after they showed it off at a Toy Fair a few years ago. So I'll never have the full roster, unless Cyborg is actually in the Flash movie and they finally release his figure for that.
    Do you think the "booyah" was Whedon?
    Eh, to be fair that really started in Thor: Ragnarok, though both characters have had funny moments in previous films.
    True, but my point still stands.

  6. #8151
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    Its a Taika Waititi movie. The trailer says "I'm a comedy". Its not like Suicide Squad where the trailer says "I'm awesome and worth your money". I'd rather have more Shazams than MoS or BvS or JLs. Aquaman is flat out boring just like Captain Marvel or Doctor Strange or the first Thor.
    Shazam is nice. But, that being the only thing available would be suffocating. I want mos, bvs, aquaman, wonder woman and shazams. But, no jls for me. It sucked. Thor is atleast salvageable. The hulk is treated like trash in mcu. Really? A gorilla likecomic relief . That's the hulk?what were they go for exactly making the savage hulk civilised with the proffessor? As if it's that easy. I am dreading what they are gonna do with cyclops and silversurfur. Then again fox hasn't done a great job with these guys as well.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 06-29-2020 at 10:35 PM.

  7. #8152
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Shazam is nice. But, that being the only thing available would be suffocating. I want mos, bvs, aquaman, wonder woman and shazams. But, no jls for me. It sucked. Thor is atleast salvageable. The hulk is treated like trash in mcu. Really? A gorilla likecomic relief . That's the hulk?what were they go for exactly making the savage hulk civilised with the proffessor? As if it's that easy. I am dreading what they are gonna do with cyclops and silversurfur. Then again fox hasn't done a great job with these guys as well.
    Aquaman, Shazam and Wonder Woman are more like the MCU than Snyder's movies. The MCU's DNA is entrenched in their productions.
    The Savage Hulk had the most appearances and was not comic relief, he had his moments of levity but when he was there he was something to be feared. The Hulk is many things, he can be comic relief every so often. The movies are finally utilising his various personas from the comics, we just got the Professor Hulk and Green Scar. The professor is another entity within the Hulk, the Hulk exhibiting differing personas is being faithful to the comics - which are based on Bruce Banner's Disassociative Identity Disorder. The Hulk went through this transformation which could have taken years, it was five years between Green Scar and Professor Hulk. They can't do any worse than what Fox did. Cyclops will be fine.

  8. #8153
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Shazam is nice. But, that being the only thing available would be suffocating. I want mos, bvs, aquaman, wonder woman and shazams. But, no jls for me. It sucked. Thor is atleast salvageable. The hulk is treated like trash in mcu. Really? A gorilla likecomic relief . That's the hulk?what were they go for exactly making the savage hulk civilised with the proffessor? As if it's that easy. I am dreading what they are gonna do with cyclops and silversurfur. Then again fox hasn't done a great job with these guys as well.
    To be fair I'm not a big fan of those characters you felt were trashed and that's why I can accept it. Maybe that's the thing. Yes, Marvel is successful with their approach among general audiences yet they manage to disappoint longtime fans in many cases. Ideally both groups are happy. That's a longtime success beyond the short term financial success and will guarantee a long life to a franchise.

  9. #8154
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    Justice League has much more in common with Shazam than it does with MoS and BvS, so yeah...

  10. #8155
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Aquaman, Shazam and Wonder Woman are more like the MCU than Snyder's movies. The MCU's DNA is entrenched in their productions.
    Is it?

    Now, I haven't seen Shazam, but I have seen Aquaman and Wonder Woman.

    Wonder Woman is utterly unlike the MCU movies, and I say that knowing that you can make a good case for it doing everything that Captain America: The First Avenger did but better (and backwards and in high heels), but the feel of the movie is still very dissimilar. The colour palette, the musical scoring, the tempo of the action, but perhaps most importantly the way the characters interact are all very different from the MCU movies.

    Aquaman is much more similar to the MCU movies, but that's not because it has MCU DNA. It is because it draws on the action-comedies of the 80s and early 90s, something which the MCU also does a lot.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  11. #8156
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Aquaman, Shazam and Wonder Woman are more like the MCU than Snyder's movies. The MCU's DNA is entrenched in their productions.
    The Savage Hulk had the most appearances and was not comic relief, he had his moments of levity but when he was there he was something to be feared. The Hulk is many things, he can be comic relief every so often. The movies are finally utilising his various personas from the comics, we just got the Professor Hulk and Green Scar. The professor is another entity within the Hulk, the Hulk exhibiting differing personas is being faithful to the comics - which are based on Bruce Banner's Disassociative Identity Disorder. The Hulk went through this transformation which could have taken years, it was five years between Green Scar and Professor Hulk. They can't do any worse than what Fox did. Cyclops will be fine.
    Not really, they all had different tones. Snyder movies had its own. Moreover, you don't seem to mind billy torching a bus. Talk about double standards. Wonderwoman is more inspired by donner movies. Aquaman is wan thing. Shazam a geoff johns thing.

    A gorilla, that's what savage hulk is. Dude, hulk is bruce's inner child to put it in simpler terms. It's inner most feeling of powerlessness a child goes through in abuse. That abomination of character ain't green scar either. Green scar is a noble gladiator. It is one of the hulk's more heroic sides, who is a disillusioned by the betrayals of his loved ones. He wasn't a toddler. Professor hulk wasn't bruce banner in hulk's body. It was introduced as merger of grey hulk, savage hulk and bruce then it was revealed to be its own separate thing, if i remember correctly . They reduced hulk into a joke and a jobber. He lost to an effing tincan.

    Riiiiiight, hulk is comic relief. I killed my abusive dad. Hahahaha /s. Get outta here with that comic relief nonsense. As a guy who went through the same kind of abuse.


    Don't tell me what hulk is.MCU made mockery out of banners condition. It didn't tackle anything. The best scene was bruce trying to kill himself. Only for his other side to spit the bullet out. Guess what? It got cut. Fine, they want to keep it kid friendly. But, then that stupid idiotic back and forth in avengers infinity war. Really? What a load of nonsense. If that's the greatness of how hulk and bruce's dynamic is handled. Then i must have been reading wrong comics. Hulk's treatment is exactly why i hate the mcu.
    Quote Originally Posted by adamTPTK View Post
    Justice League has much more in common with Shazam than it does with MoS and BvS, so yeah...
    No it didn't. Justice league is a mindless comedy. Shazam atleast had the billy's struggles with family and being an orphan.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 06-30-2020 at 04:04 AM.

  12. #8157
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Is it?

    Now, I haven't seen Shazam, but I have seen Aquaman and Wonder Woman.

    Wonder Woman is utterly unlike the MCU movies, and I say that knowing that you can make a good case for it doing everything that Captain America: The First Avenger did but better (and backwards and in high heels), but the feel of the movie is still very dissimilar. The colour palette, the musical scoring, the tempo of the action, but perhaps most importantly the way the characters interact are all very different from the MCU movies.
    The fact that the movie emulates Cap: TFA is the most obvious example of Marvel's influence. I'd say it's influenced by Thor, as well. She's the super powered god-like being out of water who gets into comedic situations in the contemporary world as she discovers who she really is. Everything said in your last sentence I disagree with, they're nothing like Snyder's movies or Suicide Squad. It's a more optimistic world and they do a great job showing why people should believe in Wonder Woman in a positive manner. She's the film's Captain America with a dash of Thor. Steve Trevor is the grounding element and is her Peggy Carter. Dr. Poison and Ludendorff may as well be HYDRA middle management, they even have a childish laughter after gassing people like it's a gag. Ares has depth, but he's not far from an average MCU villain like Ronan. The No Man's Land sequence is vintage MCU, the hero triumphantly taking the field and embracing their identity as a super-hero without being pretentious. Her team mates are the equivalent of the Howling Commandos, and even Steve's death echoes Rogers' falling into ice - before going he shares an intimidate revealing moment with her that solidifies their bond completely and explains his sacrifice for the world.

    Aquaman is much more similar to the MCU movies, but that's not because it has MCU DNA. It is because it draws on the action-comedies of the 80s and early 90s, something which the MCU also does a lot.
    Aquaman is Thor + Black Panther. It has cinematography and colouring which emulates the MCU. It's a wondrous world where anything and everything is possible, from the terrifying to the magical. The theme is family and the struggle between brothers over the throne. Ocean Master is Loki 2.0., he's forgiven by his mother who wants to redeem him. Orm creates a civil war, where technology rides side by side with bizarre, and wondrous animal life. Duelling occurs between the two brothers over the kingdom based on ancient traditional law. Arthur is guided by a love interest and eventual girlfriend who is wiser than he is who rebels against the ruling elite to put the true king on the throne.

  13. #8158
    Incredible Member The_Lurk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus Arkham View Post
    Rough. And surprisingly belated. Well... or not.

    I still like JL. I get why it disappointed, but its still a far above average Superhero flick. And I still look forward to ZS JL and will most likely add it next to W JL in my DCEU BluRay collection (if it gets a BR release that is).

    Lets hope that and the Flash movie will finally gets a Cyborg movie made. Because I want to see more from him. After I saw him. In Whedons Justice League.

  14. #8159
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lurk View Post
    Rough. And surprisingly belated. Well... or not.

    I still like JL. I get why it disappointed, but its still a far above average Superhero flick. And I still look forward to ZS JL and will most likely add it next to W JL in my DCEU BluRay collection (if it gets a BR release that is).

    Lets hope that and the Flash movie will finally gets a Cyborg movie made. Because I want to see more from him. After I saw him. In Whedons Justice League.
    Can't honestly see how. It was so painfully basic. And that borderline parody of Superman in the end...
    I don't have respect for MCU because of how sterile I think they are, but I also don't think they have movies as messed up as SS or JL.

  15. #8160
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    The fact that the movie emulates Cap: TFA is the most obvious example of Marvel's influence. I'd say it's influenced by Thor, as well. She's the super powered god-like being out of water who gets into comedic situations in the contemporary world as she discovers who she really is. Everything said in your last sentence I disagree with, they're nothing like Snyder's movies or Suicide Squad. It's a more optimistic world and they do a great job showing why people should believe in Wonder Woman in a positive manner. She's the film's Captain America with a dash of Thor. Steve Trevor is the grounding element and is her Peggy Carter. Dr. Poison and Ludendorff may as well be HYDRA middle management, they even have a childish laughter after gassing people like it's a gag. Ares has depth, but he's not far from an average MCU villain like Ronan. The No Man's Land sequence is vintage MCU, the hero triumphantly taking the field and embracing their identity as a super-hero without being pretentious. Her team mates are the equivalent of the Howling Commandos, and even Steve's death echoes Rogers' falling into ice - before going he shares an intimidate revealing moment with her that solidifies their bond completely and explains his sacrifice for the world.



    Aquaman is Thor + Black Panther. It has cinematography and colouring which emulates the MCU. It's a wondrous world where anything and everything is possible, from the terrifying to the magical. The theme is family and the struggle between brothers over the throne. Ocean Master is Loki 2.0., he's forgiven by his mother who wants to redeem him. Orm creates a civil war, where technology rides side by side with bizarre, and wondrous animal life. Duelling occurs between the two brothers over the kingdom based on ancient traditional law. Arthur is guided by a love interest and eventual girlfriend who is wiser than he is who rebels against the ruling elite to put the true king on the throne.
    Perhaps these are elements of comic books?

    Aquaman has always been all those things. Wonder Woman too. The Marvel characters like Thor and Black Panther just happen to have similar ideas at play. It's the genre.

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