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  1. #8161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    The fact that the movie emulates Cap: TFA is the most obvious example of Marvel's influence. I'd say it's influenced by Thor, as well. She's the super powered god-like being out of water who gets into comedic situations in the contemporary world as she discovers who she really is. Everything said in your last sentence I disagree with, they're nothing like Snyder's movies or Suicide Squad. It's a more optimistic world and they do a great job showing why people should believe in Wonder Woman in a positive manner. She's the film's Captain America with a dash of Thor. Steve Trevor is the grounding element and is her Peggy Carter. Dr. Poison and Ludendorff may as well be HYDRA middle management, they even have a childish laughter after gassing people like it's a gag. Ares has depth, but he's not far from an average MCU villain like Ronan. The No Man's Land sequence is vintage MCU, the hero triumphantly taking the field and embracing their identity as a super-hero without being pretentious. Her team mates are the equivalent of the Howling Commandos, and even Steve's death echoes Rogers' falling into ice - before going he shares an intimidate revealing moment with her that solidifies their bond completely and explains his sacrifice for the world.



    Aquaman is Thor + Black Panther. It has cinematography and colouring which emulates the MCU. It's a wondrous world where anything and everything is possible, from the terrifying to the magical. The theme is family and the struggle between brothers over the throne. Ocean Master is Loki 2.0., he's forgiven by his mother who wants to redeem him. Orm creates a civil war, where technology rides side by side with bizarre, and wondrous animal life. Duelling occurs between the two brothers over the kingdom based on ancient traditional law. Arthur is guided by a love interest and eventual girlfriend who is wiser than he is who rebels against the ruling elite to put the true king on the throne.
    No MCU movie has cinematography or choreography as good as Aquaman. Only Winter Soldier and Civil War have worthy choreography. The color pallet is certainly closer to Avatar than to MCU. And just because those elements present in BP and Thor doesn't mean it draws from them. Those are all common tropes that comics exploit ad nauseam repeatedly in those settings. Beside Aquaman's characterization and focus, it's pretty much an adaptation of N52 Throne of Atlantis, minus the League, plus the adventure of self discovery and responsibility. Now, if we compare them to Snyder or MCU, MCU would be closer, but it isn't the only comparison there is. A family friendly adventure fairy tale with good action, visuals and heart wasn't invented by them.

  2. #8162
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    I swear it's like people think no one was making superhero movies before the MCU.

  3. #8163
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Next they will say darkseid is thanos ripoff.

  4. #8164
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    I remember in 2015 when James Bond Spectre was coming out and people (including Grace Randolph) were saying that SPECTRE (from the James Bond novels and movies from the late 50s, early 60s) was a ripoff of 2014's Captain America TWS HYDRA. It was so bad.

  5. #8165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I swear it's like people think no one was making superhero movies before the MCU.
    Well it fits since we got folks thinking minorities did not work or existed at DC before New 52.

    That no minority writer/artist created or co-created characters.

    Yet they will claim to know comic books.


    I think folks prop up Marvel more because they took properties that have LINES of entitlement fans screaming these folks have no business existing. Because they can't sell in certain comic book stores.

    Yet before we saw them before Wonder Woman, Justice league and Aquaman in theaters.

    2 of them Black Panther & Cap Marvel had someone fighting to not get them made and they used FAILED DC movies as justification. 2 billion and 3 Oscars later.....


    Meanwhile we got toxic fandom throwing fits about Birds of Prey attacking men or screaming for a cut of a under performing Justice League film.

  6. #8166
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Well it fits since we got folks thinking minorities did not work or existed at DC before New 52.

    That no minority writer/artist created or co-created characters.

    Yet they will claim to know comic books.


    I think folks prop up Marvel more because they took properties that have LINES of entitlement fans screaming these folks have no business existing. Because they can't sell in certain comic book stores.

    Yet before we saw them before Wonder Woman, Justice league and Aquaman in theaters.

    2 of them Black Panther & Cap Marvel had someone fighting to not get them made and they used FAILED DC movies as justification. 2 billion and 3 Oscars later.....


    Meanwhile we got toxic fandom throwing fits about Birds of Prey attacking men or screaming for a cut of a under performing Justice League film.
    Don’t pat Marvel on the back too hard. They didn’t get Captain Marvel green lit until after WW had already been announced, and the majority of the movies still starred white men. That the MCU is some beacon of progressiveness is an odd hill to die on.

  7. #8167
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    The fact that the movie emulates Cap: TFA is the most obvious example of Marvel's influence. I'd say it's influenced by Thor, as well. She's the super powered god-like being out of water who gets into comedic situations in the contemporary world as she discovers who she really is. Everything said in your last sentence I disagree with, they're nothing like Snyder's movies or Suicide Squad. It's a more optimistic world and they do a great job showing why people should believe in Wonder Woman in a positive manner. She's the film's Captain America with a dash of Thor. Steve Trevor is the grounding element and is her Peggy Carter. Dr. Poison and Ludendorff may as well be HYDRA middle management, they even have a childish laughter after gassing people like it's a gag. Ares has depth, but he's not far from an average MCU villain like Ronan. The No Man's Land sequence is vintage MCU, the hero triumphantly taking the field and embracing their identity as a super-hero without being pretentious. Her team mates are the equivalent of the Howling Commandos, and even Steve's death echoes Rogers' falling into ice - before going he shares an intimidate revealing moment with her that solidifies their bond completely and explains his sacrifice for the world.
    Both WW (2017) and CA:TFA draw heavily on classic war movies. And while they have plenty of plot elements in common, there are also plenty of plot elements that differ, and they are very dissimilar in storytelling tempo and style, colour palette, scoring, and the way they approaches its characters and their interaction.

    You are correct in that neither of them are like Snyder's movies. But there are far more ways to make movies than the Snyder way or the MCU way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Aquaman is Thor + Black Panther. It has cinematography and colouring which emulates the MCU. It's a wondrous world where anything and everything is possible, from the terrifying to the magical. The theme is family and the struggle between brothers over the throne. Ocean Master is Loki 2.0., he's forgiven by his mother who wants to redeem him. Orm creates a civil war, where technology rides side by side with bizarre, and wondrous animal life. Duelling occurs between the two brothers over the kingdom based on ancient traditional law. Arthur is guided by a love interest and eventual girlfriend who is wiser than he is who rebels against the ruling elite to put the true king on the throne.
    All the elements you mention can be found in some of the MCU movies, but they can also be found in lots of other movies.

    I'd recommend that you look into the stuff that ties the MCU movies together in the way they are crafted, and not cherrypick examples based on that movie X outside of the MCU is similar to movie Y inside the MCU, because you're missing out on the entire history of movies.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  8. #8168
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Well it fits since we got folks thinking minorities did not work or existed at DC before New 52.

    That no minority writer/artist created or co-created characters.

    Yet they will claim to know comic books.


    I think folks prop up Marvel more because they took properties that have LINES of entitlement fans screaming these folks have no business existing. Because they can't sell in certain comic book stores.

    Yet before we saw them before Wonder Woman, Justice league and Aquaman in theaters.

    2 of them Black Panther & Cap Marvel had someone fighting to not get them made and they used FAILED DC movies as justification. 2 billion and 3 Oscars later.....


    Meanwhile we got toxic fandom throwing fits about Birds of Prey attacking men or screaming for a cut of a under performing Justice League film.
    Wonder Woman got a film despite comments that Gal Gadot's breasts weren't big enough to play her and WB got accused of sexism for hiring a female director for the movie. Birds of Prey was still made and is the second female lead superhero movie at a time when Marvel only had one. Aquaman had to deal with the usual complaints about race bending on top of the character's crappy reputation thanks to Superfriends. As for the Snyder Cut, I didn't see you or any of the other naysayers say anything when we had fans calling for Snyder to be sued by the Reeves estate, mocking jokes about his daughter's suicide, a petition to the White House to have him removed from BvS before the film even came out or the number of times a DC thread got derailed just so somebody could bitch about how much they hate Snyder and his movies.

    No one here has clean hands so let's all grow the hell up, shall we?
    Last edited by Agent Z; 06-30-2020 at 10:01 AM.

  9. #8169
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Both WW (2017) and CA:TFA draw heavily on classic war movies. And while they have plenty of plot elements in common, there are also plenty of plot elements that differ, and they are very dissimilar in storytelling tempo and style, colour palette, scoring, and the way they approaches its characters and their interaction.

    You are correct in that neither of them are like Snyder's movies. But there are far more ways to make movies than the Snyder way or the MCU way.
    Well, yeah, Wonder Woman and Captain America are two very different characters, so I think that's kind of to be expected.

  10. #8170
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamTPTK View Post
    Between the abysmal villain and the kids' pretty unremarkable dynamics, I disagree. I can't possibly see how this movie and "getting their stuff together" when discussing DCEU can be put in the same sentence.
    Because most viewers like it and have fun watching it?
    Because it's the kind of film a lot of people hoped they would make?
    It's okay if you don't like the Shazam movie, but it isn't something despised like the Snyder films, and frankly DC needed it.

    Plenty of people act like MoS is some kind of irredeemable mess when its audience ratings are around the level of your average MCU flick and only a certain amount of detractors go to unparalleled lengths to try and make it seem as this a universally hated movie. Like, for reals. So yeah, it generated a devote cult of haters. From my experience, most of them also happen to love the MCU formula. I'm sorry, but this is the last chunk of people I'd ask what quality cinema is.
    What we should be discussing is how did MoS manage it themes? When it revisioned Krypton based off of Brave New World concepts, did it fit or not? Did a more paranoid version of Pa Kent have a point or not? What about Jor El's basically inventing the Superman as we know him. Was Clark's journey of self discovery satisfying or not? And so on. I just don't see it. It's always those hyper exaggeration to make everything into shallow "bad" "good". And everyone trying their best to convert the other. Which is sad because I think MoS even if stumbles makes at the very least a worthy superhero experience which happens to also ask relevant questions. And there aren't many superhero movies like these nowadays, thanks to you know who...
    I doubt it all boils down to "we want the Marvel formula" for the hate it gets
    Last edited by Vakanai; 06-30-2020 at 02:38 PM.

  11. #8171
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    So? I should cheer for superman, batman.. Etc to be hollow for them to be successful? I think i will pass.
    Only if you believe that being successful means being hollow? Like what are you even saying? How do you determine which heroes or which movies are hollow? Can something be not divisive and still not be hollow?

  12. #8172
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    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    Its a Taika Waititi movie. The trailer says "I'm a comedy". Its not like Suicide Squad where the trailer says "I'm awesome and worth your money". I'd rather have more Shazams than MoS or BvS or JLs. Aquaman is flat out boring just like Captain Marvel or Doctor Strange or the first Thor.
    Really? Thor was my favorite non-Iron Man movie of Marvel's phase 1

  13. #8173
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Well it fits since we got folks thinking minorities did not work or existed at DC before New 52.

    That no minority writer/artist created or co-created characters.

    Yet they will claim to know comic books.


    I think folks prop up Marvel more because they took properties that have LINES of entitlement fans screaming these folks have no business existing. Because they can't sell in certain comic book stores.

    Yet before we saw them before Wonder Woman, Justice league and Aquaman in theaters.

    2 of them Black Panther & Cap Marvel had someone fighting to not get them made and they used FAILED DC movies as justification. 2 billion and 3 Oscars later.....


    Meanwhile we got toxic fandom throwing fits about Birds of Prey attacking men or screaming for a cut of a under performing Justice League film.
    What does the toxic racist and misogynistic fans have to do with wanting to see the Snyder cut? Don't conflate the two please.

  14. #8174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    What does the toxic racist and misogynistic fans have to do with wanting to see the Snyder cut? Don't conflate the two please.
    I am talking about the behavior of the faction that lead to harassment and bullying.

    The side that folk want to toss out look at the charity and such and such as a shield. Sorry that behavior happened. That is why folks have an issue with WB caving in.

    Because you are rewarding that bullying and spending money to do so. Instead of investing that money into other shows.

    So now we got folks thinking that is way to go. So what happens when The Batman come out? Are they going to attack it because Ben Afflack is not Batman? And demand that move be remade???

    That is a toxic fandom.


    That turns folks off. Because that is who they keep seeing. No amount of donations is going to cover that up. We all have to deal with toxic fandom.

  15. #8175
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    I am talking about the behavior of the faction that lead to harassment and bullying.

    The side that folk want to toss out look at the charity and such and such as a shield. Sorry that behavior happened. That is why folks have an issue with WB caving in.

    Because you are rewarding that bullying and spending money to do so. Instead of investing that money into other shows.

    So now we got folks thinking that is way to go. So what happens when The Batman come out? Are they going to attack it because Ben Afflack is not Batman? And demand that move be remade???

    That is a toxic fandom.


    That turns folks off. Because that is who they keep seeing. No amount of donations is going to cover that up. We all have to deal with toxic fandom.
    It was only a faction though. Should we punish the good actors for the bad? Is DC caving in to the trolls or rewarding the polite supporters?

    We have to deal with toxic fandom sure - but every fandom has toxic elements. How do you punish the toxic fans without punishing the good ones? How do you reward the good ones without rewarding the toxic jerks? Because the people asking for the cut aren't all toxic. No amount of donations is going to cover up the toxic element? That means you are letting the toxic element cover up the donations and everyone in the fandom who isn't toxic.

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