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  1. #8311
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    But it's possible. I can remember when The Thing was trashed back in 1981 - now it's considered one of the greatest horror films of all-time. The critics of that time weren't crazy about those two films, but the kids were, grew up to be film critics years later, and reevaluated many movies. Young viewers of the DCEU may do the same thing, since they didn't grow up with the Reeve Superman and the way superheroes "should" be. Only time will tell, of course.
    This is definitely true.

  2. #8312
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Good. As much as I did enjoy that movie, I did think it would have been better if they had done their own version of Batman like how Batman Unlimited or Batman Ninja or Batman vs the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles all had their own Batman.
    Those were more original takes though, hence the need for an original version, but the producers deliberately wanted to revive/crossover with the Brave and the Bold universe so I think it was definitely what it was envisioned to be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    As a Cyborg fan I can say that the Doom Patrol version of Vic is definitely the best. The movie version took far too much influence from the Geoff Johns’ version. Which means he was pretty much just a half a head on a robot body. A mopey guy who hates what he has become. On the Doom Patrol show he still is has most of his human body and the look is similar to the Ivan Reis design (easily the character’s best look). This Cyborg seems to enjoy utilizing his new powers to fight crime and is an up and coming superhero destined for the Justice League. Vic has a storyline about his internal nanobots that is really interesting.
    I mean, again, people cite Johns' take but that was inspired by Wolfman. People tend to forget the character Vic started out as (but then again, they do that with a lot of the New Teen Titans).

  3. #8313
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I mean, again, people cite Johns' take but that was inspired by Wolfman. People tend to forget the character Vic started out as (but then again, they do that with a lot of the New Teen Titans).
    As someone who bought the comic off the rack that Vic and the rest of TNTT were introduced in 40 years ago, I find it weird myself.
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  4. #8314
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    Still can't wrap my head around how Cyborg ended up on JL (both comics and movie). Vic is the most boring black superhero I can think of. From both... DC and Marvel.

  5. #8315
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    Still can't wrap my head around how Cyborg ended up on JL (both comics and movie). Vic is the most boring black superhero I can think of. From both... DC and Marvel.
    He was there because he was the most prominent black DC superhero in regard to the mainstream at the time. A decade earlier, it would have been Static (if they had the rights to use him) or John Stewart - now it might be BL.
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  6. #8316
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    Still can't wrap my head around how Cyborg ended up on JL (both comics and movie). Vic is the most boring black superhero I can think of. From both... DC and Marvel.
    Three big reasons:
    1. They own the rights to him completely unlike Static or Black Lightning
    2. He’s not a legacy character so there’s no fandom division like with GL
    3. He is one of DC’s most well known black superheroes thanks to the Teen Titans show

    But they totally botched how they handled him and it’s a shame because Vic does have some interesting ideas he could bring into play that DC is totally whiffing on thanks to “am I a man or a machine” bs. Look over at how Hickman is handling human-machine mergers to see what I’m talking about.

  7. #8317
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    Still can't wrap my head around how Cyborg ended up on JL (both comics and movie). Vic is the most boring black superhero I can think of. From both... DC and Marvel.
    He joined the League before the reboot. Like Wally, Vic earned that position through years of service and hard work and heroism.

    And as Vordan said, he's a non-legacy hero, DC owns the rights to him completely, and he's been showing up in larger media since the Super Friends of the 80's (Champions of the Galaxy or something it was called?) so he's one of DC's more well known characters and their most well known PoC, since John Stewart's push began and ended with JL.

    Vic, when written right, is a fantastic character with tons to offer, and in the League he provided a unique powerset no one else has. Don't mistake the mess DC has made of him in recent years for the actual, true character.

    Granted, Black Lightning would've made a better choice for the New52....except for all the crap with Isabella.
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  8. #8318
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Those were more original takes though, hence the need for an original version, but the producers deliberately wanted to revive/crossover with the Brave and the Bold universe so I think it was definitely what it was envisioned to be.
    Of course it was - I just didn't like the fact that's what the producers wanted and envisioned and wish that they had rethought it and had it be a different Batman from that series.

    Ultimately though it was still a fun movie that I enjoyed and my main gripe is largely a minor one. And hopefully next time Scooby and the Gang meet Batman it'll be a different version made for the film.

  9. #8319
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    In theory Cyborg should work, he's great in Wolfman and Johns' Teen Titans runs, but I heard he was useless in Johns' Justice League. Despite everything in DCEU's Justice League Ray Fisher's Cyborg was a delight on the screen. A wonderful performance, very humane and sympathetic.

  10. #8320
    Spectacular Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    Still can't wrap my head around how Cyborg ended up on JL (both comics and movie). Vic is the most boring black superhero I can think of. From both... DC and Marvel.
    They pushed him because like others have said: most prominent black superhero they have (due to the TT show) and because they likely figured that in todays age of technology, he'd be a sure fire hit with the audience. If only they'd give the same push to John Stewart, BL, and Vixen. All of whom are vastly more interesting imo.

  11. #8321
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    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    Still can't wrap my head around how Cyborg ended up on JL (both comics and movie). Vic is the most boring black superhero I can think of. From both... DC and Marvel.
    Cyborg....

    Of every black character in Marvel, DC and you can include Image, Valiant, Archie and a few others.
    He is the ONLY black MALE character to be seen in DC Comics and tv/movie consistently. Storm is the only black female. Falcon is that for Marvel.

    They are the only ones to be seen in merchandise (at times more group shots/team books).
    You ask a black kid of the 80s-90s to name a black heroes in comics. The MAJORITY would named Cyborg, Falcon or Storm. Because that is who they saw the most.

    Look at how Falcon was done versus Cyborg.

    Before we saw him in Winter Solider-we got a Falcon trade (like Blade and War Machine got) of his first appearance, his first mini and a few solo stories.
    Then we had him as Cap America. He had a mini, variant covers, posters, LEAD an Avenger team and his own books.
    We got figures and statue of him as Cap America.
    Marvel gave you a VETERAN actor to play Falcon-someone folks KNEW about.
    Marvel SOLD the BLEEP out Falcon from 2014-2020 (yes there is a lull in the comics in 2019). 44 solo issues (ongoing, one shot and a few minis) in 4 years.

    Now what did the comic side do for Cyborg? What did they do to sell us Cyborg?
    That's why folks are frustrated with DC.

    The tv side pretty justified Cyborg can and should a leaguer. McDuffie LAST Dc product ever had Cyborg a JL. That man went to his grave selling Cyborg as a JL.

    The comic book side failed and was doing it since the 90s. The movie didn't do him justice either (pun intended).

    And what does that say about DC Comics as a WHOLE-he was default because of failures to develop black characters that you OWNED and were not Legacies.

  12. #8322
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    But it's possible. I can remember when The Thing was trashed back in 1981 - now it's considered one of the greatest horror films of all-time. The critics of that time weren't crazy about those two films, but the kids were, grew up to be film critics years later, and reevaluated many movies. Young viewers of the DCEU may do the same thing, since they didn't grow up with the Reeve Superman and the way superheroes "should" be. Only time will tell, of course.
    This is something i will never be able to understand. Superman existed before chris reeve donned the cape. His portrayal is just one among many versions of the character. At the end of the day superman is created by siegel and shuster. There is plenty of goldenage in man of steel superman.
    Quote Originally Posted by mace11 View Post
    If you don't like those scenes that's up to you but most folks like those scenes and most people disagree with you and i don't agree with your view.
    By which metric. You say that as if you have some data to back it up. it didn't get any laugh. It was a shitty scene and it trivialised trauma. Hulk jobbed to everyone from a tincan to thanos. Nothing in there is "the strongest one there is".i am gonna put it in simple terms,"that's not my hulk, banner, scar or the professor".
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 07-04-2020 at 09:54 PM.

  13. #8323
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    This is something i will never be able to understand. Superman existed before chris reeve donned the cape. His portrayal is just one among many versions of the character. At the end of the day superman is created by siegel and shuster. There is plenty of goldenage in man of steel superman.
    Where did he do these things?

  14. #8324
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Where did he do these things?
    Superman flips of the Authoritoes who tries to spy and control him. He is a vigilante. He doesn't seem to deny it. That pa kent scene where he tells him to hide his strength, until the right time comes. It's from goldenage. Superman shows himself as vigilante from an urban myth to save lois. Superman is an urban myth. Superman breaking his limits. Superman trashing a truck of a guy harassing a woman.it's a parallel of how superman smashed the car after lois was being harrased by butch. Superman getting pissed and accidentally causing collateral.Also, the kents nor the els where the reason superman helps people and defends the defenceless . It's his instinct. Which he honed to be a choice. That talk about chance and choice.it presents the theme of personhood that exists through out goldenage comics. Incidentally, anything inspidered by goldenage superman comics like the irongiant or astroboy.He doesn't give long drawn speeches on how people should behave.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 07-04-2020 at 10:36 PM.

  15. #8325
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Those were more original takes though, hence the need for an original version, but the producers deliberately wanted to revive/crossover with the Brave and the Bold universe so I think it was definitely what it was envisioned to be.

    I mean, again, people cite Johns' take but that was inspired by Wolfman. People tend to forget the character Vic started out as (but then again, they do that with a lot of the New Teen Titans).
    Yeah, no doubt that Vic was angry about his lot in life in the NTT but at least he was allowed to grow a bit as a character. It seemed like Johns and Didio just wanted him to stay at square one. For the first 5 years or so of Cyborg’s promotion he had little character development. Really not until Forever Evil.

    So you’re right that Johns and Didio didn’t create the character trait, it’s just that they made him being a “tragic freak” the main focus. Vic on the Doom Patrol is someone who still struggles with the changes but had embraced the idea of being a more well rounded hero (that is until Mr. Nobody got a hold of him). Plus he’s not just a half of a face and some ribs like Johns made him. Which is the version that Snyder went with.
    Last edited by Robotman; 07-04-2020 at 10:34 PM.

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