DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[manwhohaseverything]

Whatever you're trying to say barely makes any damn sense.

It doesn't? Heh! I am not good at comparisons. I don't agree that mcu has any of these types "flavour" of movies. Simple.
Anyways,
Birds of prey fans making bot accounts and false reviews to get people to see their movie instead of the sonic movie

Source:https://www.reddit.com/r/SonicTheHed...m_source=share

[Skullkid]

Either way that's simply not true.
Winter Soldier is a spy thriller, Homecoming was a coming of age high school comedy, GoTG is a space opera, to say there's no variety is just wrong.

[manwhohaseverything]

I might give you winter soldier,maybe(a big one) homecoming. Others, yeah! I don't think so. You can say i am wrong, maybe i am. But, it's just an opinion. For now i am sticking with that because i don't see the variety compared to the amount of films they pump out. That's it. My opinion might change with time.i don't think it's going to be changed on a forum discussion. It can only be changed were it needs to be. In the theaters .

[SiegePerilous02]

Wonder Woman and Aquaman's name recognition wasn't that big until recently is my point. Their films could just as easily have tanked. They do not have the history that Batman and to a lesser extent Superman have as major icons and money makers for WB.

Wonder Woman's definitely was. If you said her name to the average person on the street, they would at least have an idea of what she looks like and her basic iconography. She's referenced in pop culture a lot. That's more than most other DC or pre-MCU Marvel characters can claim. She's definitely a bigger deal now, but I think you're downplaying her status a bit to prove your point.

No being doom and gloom is declaring a film that has just come out to be a box office failure as is clearly happening in this thread and constantly bringing up the reception of past movies that have little or no bearing on current ones even after we have successes like Aquaman.

Do movie's typically change their title in the second week if things are looking good?
Of course previous movies from this studio with their logo slapped on them have a bearing on the perceptions of future movies they put out. MOS, BvS and Squad were back to back divisive-critical failures that had steep second weekend drops in the case of the latter two. We had WW, but then we had JL after. It's naive to think this doesn't have a cumulative effect. Of course people will turn out to see them if the films have broad appeal and if they received good word of mouth. But the DCEU as a whole just doesn't excite people the way the MCU did pre-Endgame.

I think "But Aquaman!" is just as much an oversimplification as "all DCEU movies are doomed no matter what because of the first few movies."

People are not simply "pointing things out" when it comes to the DCEU. Not a day goes by that there aren't comments (some with more than a hint of smugness) about how they are doomed or should reboot or will never catch up to Marvel or whatever else. Your attitude might be a bit more positive or neutral but that is far from the case for a number of comments here. Just a few pages back we had someone say the Supergirl movie was going to flop if we don't get a good Superman movie. We had another saying they hope the Birds of Prey movie tanks just because they hate Harley. This type of attitude plagues every DCEU movie pre and post-release.

Some are definitely going into straight up bashing, but not everyone. I agree with what Holt said earlier in that it sometimes seems that ANY criticism or attempt to understand some of the DCEU's success vs. failures is labeled as bashing or the "sky is falling" when it isn't. And on the opposite end of the spectrum, though they arent as numerous, we have the DCEU fans who bash the MCU or older DC movies. Or the some of the more extreme trolls in the #SnyderCut group.

[Vampire Savior]

Racebent Black Canary got me instantly disinterested in that Birds of Prey movie. No matter how many times media turns some white character into a black woman, I will not accept it as a normal thing that you just do. Get off your ass and create your own black woman characters (which is something I would advocate 1000%), or use the ones you already have, instead of molesting and warping characters that are perfectly fine the way they've been for decades.

[krazijoe]

Racebent Black Canary got me instantly disinterested in that Birds of Prey movie. No matter how many times media turns some white character into a black woman, I will not accept it as a normal thing that you just do. Get off your ass and create your own black woman characters (which is something I would advocate 1000%), or use the ones you already have, instead of molesting and warping characters that are perfectly fine the way they've been for decades.

Why not look at it like an Elseworlds story?

[krazijoe]

Going to watch BoP with a friend tonight. Any post credit scenes to wait for?

End of Credits voice over, that is about it. Worth waiting for? Not really. But to each their own. you WILL have enough time to go to the bathroom and come back before you get the little snippet...

[kjn]

Incorrect.
I think the mcu films is more diverse the dceu films and more so if you add the mcu shows.
Note- the mcu shows are really a alternate universe/s and not canon to the movies but they still called mcu shows.

You're doing selective quoting. Pinsir was talking about the film's tone. And here I find that the MCU doesn't have a lot of variety, either in quantity (in number of movies sticking out) or in quality (in the ways they stick out). MCU movies are extremely well-made, but you get action scenes interleaved with jokes, a relatively uniform colour palette, and a rather high amount of meta awareness.

The genre shifts are there, but they are all variations of the MCU style. So you get an MCU war movie, or an MCU heist movie, or an MCU space adventure.

For the DCEU, of course the Snyder movies (and here I include JL and SS) are of course consistent, given that they had Snyder as a driving creative force. But Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Birds of Prey all carry wildly different tones.

Going to watch BoP with a friend tonight. Any post credit scenes to wait for?

Not really. You get a cute spoken (but interrupted) joke at the end by Harley.

Wonder Woman's definitely was. If you said her name to the average person on the street, they would at least have an idea of what she looks like and her basic iconography. She's referenced in pop culture a lot. That's more than most other DC or pre-MCU Marvel characters can claim. She's definitely a bigger deal now, but I think you're downplaying her status a bit to prove your point.

Yep. Wonder Woman is arguably #4 in global recognition among all superheroes. It's Superman, Batman, and Spiderman above her.

Do movie's typically change their title in the second week if things are looking good?

As I wrote over in the TV/Film forum thread, I'm sort of morbidly curious how WB went on with a lot of the production and marketing decisions here, but at the same time I'm afraid the sausage factory will be very dirty.

In any case: if you're a fan of Harley Quinn, Black Canary, Renee, or Black Mask: go see the movie. Or if you're a fan of Gotham City: this was really set there, with greasy diners, sleazy nightclubs, big factories, run-down police stations, and shabby apartments.

[Pinsir]

Incorrect.
I think the mcu films is more diverse the dceu films

So how many R rated movies does the MCU have? Oh, yeah, none. I'm talking about the tone of the movies, not their genres.

I don't know how anyone can legitimately say, that the DCEU, which has films with tones like BvS, Aquaman, Wonder Woman and BoP (and Joker too ) and say these aren't vastly different films that appeal to different people. The Snyder movies appealed to a different group of people than those who just like general super hero movies. Anyone in the DC fan base knows this, so much so that people got angry when some posters kept bringing up the Snyder cut.

The MCU movies rarely ever feature tones that vary from one another. This is not a controversial statement, most fans recognize these films are famous for their levity and lack of seriousness. If you like one MCU film, your probably going to like most of them, simply because of the tone they all share.

Also, its 2020 and people are still clinging to the Winter Soldier is a spy thriller meme? I've even heard other MCU fans say not to do this.

[Skullkid]

The fact you want to call it a meme when like this is a 4chan forum makes it hard to take you seriously.
Well harder at least, since you have an axe to grind against the MCU and clearly want any reason to insult it, especially when you start talking like you speak for the fandom

[Frontier]

I wouldn't say killing it on the small screen, have you seen the CW ratings lately? Quite low compared to other networks. I think Flash was only good like 2 seasons, and the rest are very inconsistent in quality as well. Legends first season was a mess. Supergirl? they butchered Superman. The CW is very mediocre and often awful with an small audience compared to the movies. But the expectations for the CW and the movies are very different (lower) because it's just one movie to make an impression while a TV show has more episodes.

The CW shows are popular for what they are, a lot of people have been enjoying the current season of Flash and the last season of Arrow, as well as future seasons of Legends (not me, mind you, but I digress...).

Of course, there's also the cartoons, animated movies/specials, etc. which DC has always had an edge over Marvel.

[mace11]

Here is Kevin Feige view on what he is think about the mcu tone.



More Than Just The Same: MCU Head Kevin Feige Says All Marvel Movies Are 'Relatively Different'

As popular as it is, one of the biggest and most enduring criticisms of the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU) is how similar many of its entries are to each other. Minus a few exceptions, cynical viewers think that Marvel movies are interchangeable, with the only differences being the hero's name and which Infinity Stone the villain was holding. In response, Marvel Entertainment head honcho Kevin Feige defended the MCU, saying that the movies are in fact, different from one another.

Feige Talks About Marvelous Differences

While talking to Uproxx about the upcoming #Marvel movies that include Thor: Ragnarok and Black Panther, Feige acknowledged that the Marvel movies do tend to feel similar to one another. For the producer, there's a perfectly logical reason for this, and it's unavoidable given the tightly-knit group of writers responsible for bringing popular Marvel comics to the big screen.

"I mean, I think it's just the way we make the movies. I think all the movies are relatively different. I think there's a narrative that people like to write about because they're all produced by the same team and they all inhabit the same fictional cinematic universe. That we look for common similarities."

While not downplaying the criticisms and similarities, Feige doubled-down on his belief that the Marvel movies are distinct movies that just so happen to be a part of a greater cinematic universe. To prove his point, the producer cited the most recent Marvel movies that have noticeably been aiming to do something outside of the usual Marvel formula.


"And I'm not saying there aren't common similarities throughout it, but I think 'Thor: Ragnarok' and 'Spider-Man: Homecoming' are two totally different types of movies. They're both fun. People both enjoy them. Is that a similarity? If so, I'll take it. If that's a criticism, I'll take that, too. But really, yeah, 'Homecoming,' 'Ragnarok,' '[Black] Panther,' into 'Infinity War,' 'Ant-Man and the Wasp' after that. And a '90s-set 'Captain Marvel' after that; these are six very different movies.If what they have in common is they're all really enjoyable and fun to watch, then I'll take it."

When asked if Thor: Ragnarok, which is being marketed as an inter-galactic road-trip, was the craziest that Marvel could get, Feige reassured Uproxx's Mike Ryan that #Ragnarok - and by extension, future Marvel films - will be a Marvel movie that fans would not be expecting.

"The truth of the matter is I think they're all unusual and I think they all seem to be funnier than people expect. People said the same thing to me about 'Guardians [of the Galaxy],' people said the same thing to me three months ago about 'Spider-Man: Homecoming.' But, certainly, this is the one that we followed our instincts into comedy unabashedly."

https://moviepilot.com/p/kevin-feige...ticism/4414149

by Colossus1980 quote-

People always like to throw out that world formulaic as if there's a guarantee to make a movie a box office success. If it was true every studio would do this and ensure ongoing franchises all the time. 2017 saw a lot of franchises crash and burn. Where was the formula to ensure their success?

by Jokerz79 quote-
You keep talking about how the DCEU films are art and their filmmakers are allowed to create their art and vision unlike the Marvel movies which are simply formulaic. But you're wrong, the Guardians are very much James Gunn's vision and art the awesome mix tape was his idea, taserface was his idea, he gave Lloyd Kaufman a cameo same with Taiki Waikiki and Thor Ragnarok. Even the Avengers films have a lot of Whedon in them and it's very obvious when comparing the Avengers in Civil War. Yet for all this talk about Snyder's vision the most widely seen version of BvS was the theatrical cut which was butchered by the studio so they could get a shorty run time for more viewings which ironically no one came back for once seeing their hack job and Justice League is clearly not his vision or why want a director's cut? Story wise the DCEU is no more ground breaking than the MCU as for artist vision Marvel and Disney have allowed their directors to put their own stamps onto the properties and unlike WB Disney actually showed the Directors visions for the films in theaters.


by WebLurker
Marvel movies are directed by different people who bring different sensibilities into the mix. Also the MCU has proven to be diverse in tone depending on the subject matter (compare the Captain America movies to Guardians of the Galaxy or Doctor Strange). The X-Men will have a tone of its own because of the stuff that makes it unique from the other franchises and the specific creative team given the reigns. (There might be more humor than the other movies, but even Logan had comic relief. Besides some of the funniest stuff I've seen in comics outside of Spider-Man came from X-Men stuff.)
Let me give you an even easier example; the MCU has given us sci-fi, fantasy, war movies, spy thrillers, and heists within the same overall series. They also have done character development over the course of this series very well, bar none. (Also, the Captain America movies do not fit your description and Spider-Man is a property that supposed to be light-hearted by nature -- albeit with a serious edge.)

There's a difference between having humor and taking the movie seriously. The MCU does use humor, but the stories are generally taken seriously. Also, comedy does not equal a lack of substance. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 was funny and had substance in the characters, like Logan had substance in its characters, but through a serious story.
The MCU movies made so far are not X-Men movies and should be taking inspiration from their source material and what makes the characters work. (For example, should Spider-Man have the same tone as Wolverine?)

Thoughts on people calling MCU movies generic and cookie cutter? (self.marvelstudios)
https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudi...s_generic_and/

[Frontier]

I mean, I'm not always big on quip-a-minute movies because I feel like that detracted from movies like Ragnarok, Dr. Strange, and even Endgame to some degree, but it seems to work for the MCU.

Black Panther was a refreshing chance of pace by comparison.

[mace11]

There still some who believe making films like birds of prey,shazam etc.. in the dceu is a betrayal of the tone the early dceu films have started by the way.The early dceu has basically one tone.

SHAZAM Trailer is a Huge Hit BUT Some Think its a DCEU Betrayal
Pegasus 112710 hours ago
Betrayal?? LMAO. Who ever the **** thinks that is no actual "DC fan". (And should do some research about the character before jumping to conclusions.). And no, not every film from DC is going to be "light hearted" and "comedic". This will all depend on the characters and their story. Basically....the opposite of the MCU.

Just A Fork6 hours ago
Pegasus 1127 the MCU has WAY more diversity than DC films have. Ever since Batman Begins it's been the same thing over and over again. Infinity War was extremely dark, sure it had some jokes, but most movies do. Jurassic Park has as many jokes as Infinity War and it was dark and dealt with important themes as well.


Justin K14 hours ago (edited)
In some ways, The Dark Knight is the worst thing that happened to superhero movies, because everyone tried to copy it without paying attention to the fact that, like Sammy said, its dark tone, which was really more grounded than it was “gritty,” was earned through established characters and relationships set up in Batman Begins (an underrated movie overall) and even in that realism it also wasn’t completely humorless like BvS was, because PEOPLE MAKE JOKES IN REAL LIFE! You can’t keep using the Nolan trilogy as the gold standard of dark superhero stories if you continue to completely misunderstand hoooooowwww it worked.

Justin Lopez14 hours ago (edited)
Justin K That's probably why the MCU has been so successful, they weren't trying to copy them but instead did their own thing. If the DCEU didn't hire Zack Snyder and didn't try to mimic the Dark Knight Trilogy then they probably would have been better off than where they are now.

Justin K14 hours ago (edited)
Justin Lopez Precisely. And now it looks like the DCEU is trying to take an anthological route, where its movies are only as connected as they want them to be but they aren’t constrained by an overarching story. And that’s not a terrible idea, but it’s embarrassing because that’s clearly not what they wanted to do at first. They just have to backtrack now because their initial attempt to catch up to Marvel failed so disastrously.

ctl698513 hours ago
Justin K Its frustrating to hear die hard DCEU fans try to claim that Marvel is only for kids because they're lighter yet they have deeper context than the DC movies so far. Being really serious isn't being adult if the characters don't act like adults or say stupid dialogue. Trying to make them so dark calls attention to how goofy everything is

Justin K13 hours ago
ctl6985 yeah I’ve never liked this connotation that all MCU films are childish. It’s just not true.

C Wilson12 hours ago
It's not frustrating, it's hilarious seeing DC fans cry like bitches. Marvel redeemed Iron Fist, and just had a sequel to Ant-Man; game over DC.

Joshua Munn12 hours ago
This is especially timely considering The Dark Knight just had it's 10 year anniversary and Warner Bros. 10 years later still doesn't get what made TDK good for the time it came out: a majority of what made the film great was Heath Ledger's performance as the Joker and the whole mystique around his performance and method acting, as well as his death over 10 and a half year ago (jeez). If it wasn't Heath Ledger, if he hadn't of died, things would not be where they are with TDK or DC in general. Iron Man 1 and The Incredible Hulk came out before The Dark Knight and were slowly changing the game in the same way the dark knight did, spawning the MCU. 10 years later look at Infinity War, it's flashy comic book action, looks like a real comic brought to life, and it's basically brought in another era of comic book films. Trying to constantly replicate the dark knight in an age of GOTG just doesn't work anymore, it didn't really work when they tried it with Watchmen either. Now they've especially messed things up with the DCEU, Arrow started out more dark and angst ridden before the flash show came out. The Dark Knight was once in a lifetime basically because of Heath Ledger and his performance and death that was the main reason people were so enamored with the film in my opinion, and lightning can't strike twice.

Tissan Young9 hours ago
Honestly bro. I always say MOS was overly depressing for no reason, but people always give me **** for that. Henry Cavill’s Superman is all mopey and stone cold when there’s nothing about his life that would suggest that he’d end up the way he did. There are so many other versions of Superman who have his same struggles and problems but still actually have some kind of happiness in their lives.

[Frontier]

There still some who believe making films like birds of prey,shazam etc.. in the dceu is a betrayal of the tone the early dceu films have started by the way.The early dceu has basically one tone.

Well, the idea of the DCEU (as I recall) was that it could have whatever tone the creators wanted it to have. Snyder just made the initial films the way he wanted to make them (for better or worse).