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  1. #4591
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    Aside from quibbles with a few of your specific examples, that's debatable. Like I just said, two of the all-time most acclaimed ones, Spider-Man 2 and The Dark Knight, aren't based on any specific story. A lot of the Marvel films don't have a specific story counterpart either save for the origin movies. Batman and Batman Returns were also huge hits and neither fits that description either.

  2. #4592
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    Aside from quibbles with a few of your specific examples, that's debatable. Like I just said, two of the all-time most acclaimed ones, Spider-Man 2 and The Dark Knight, aren't based on any specific story. A lot of the Marvel films don't have a specific story counterpart either save for the origin movies. Batman and Batman Returns were also huge hits and neither fits that description either.
    Spider-man 2 and The Dark Knight had well established villains though, in fact the Spiderman and Batman franchises are strongly villain focused. After Green Goblin it makes sense that you would have Doctor Octopus. These films had an obvious direction to them. If you try to make like a Bumblebee movie, where are you going to start? You still my get a good script, but you'd be starting on a nearly blank slate.
    Want to read Wonder Woman stories, but don't know where to start? Check out my top 10 lists for Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age Wonder Woman tales!

  3. #4593
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    Indeed. I wonder how closely the Black Adam movie will hue to his New 52 origin story.
    I'm wondering if they'll acknowledge that tidbit from Shazam where the Wizard said he released the Seven Deadly Sins that ravaged humanity and killed a lot of people.
    Quote Originally Posted by chamber-music View Post
    A number comics have been improved by screenwriters. I think most of Mark Millars material has been improved by filmmakers.
    (Cough)Civil War(Cough)

  4. #4594
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Spider-man 2 and The Dark Knight had well established villains though, in fact the Spiderman and Batman franchises are strongly villain focused. After Green Goblin it makes sense that you would have Doctor Octopus. These films had an obvious direction to them. If you try to make like a Bumblebee movie, where are you going to start? You still my get a good script, but you'd be starting on a nearly blank slate.
    Most films tend to start from a blank slate. It's not that big a deal, you just give her someone else's villain if that's a problem.

  5. #4595
    Fantastic Member Dr. Ellingham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    Unrealistic? LOL, they have done it already in the 70s with Superfriends and in the 90s and 00s with the JL animated universe and animated movies. And the Arrowverse (many like it).
    None of those examples carry except the Arrowverse on TV. That's absolutely an interconnected web of franchises done well, yes.

    But that model is built around total control of DC's smaller IPs, carefully avoiding the big DCU chess pieces.

    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    The problem is Warner Bros lack of vision and ineptitude to develop the connected universe using the best DC and JL stories. They tried Injustice with Zack Snyder. I'm not surprised it was so divisive and finally hurt the brand so much. But they can rebuild with better and more commercial movies. It doesn't have to do the billions the mcu is doing, but they can make profitable movies and gain more audiences back. Aquaman just did it.
    But did the success of Aquaman stem from the JL movie? No. It was essentially its own starting point.

    Which speaks to WBs issue, and resulting strategy - they don't have a bunch of A-grade IPs with decades of sustained use outside of comics in the 80s-00s, like the X-Men, Spider-Man, Avengers, etc. DC's properties are less connected, and aside from Superman and Batman, have had little sustained use outside comics until the last 15 or so years. There's not as much cultural awareness of these properties. That can change, especially due to the Arrowverse and animation, but there's no connective blueprint.

  6. #4596
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    We completely ignoring the successes of popular TV animation?

  7. #4597
    Fantastic Member Dr. Ellingham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    We completely ignoring the successes of popular TV animation?
    Not at all. Superman and Batman have each had multiple successful cartoons, based upon which you could say they had some built-in cultural hooks, a built-in audience across decades.

    And lo and behold, just those two DC characters have had successful film franchises.

    Whereas Marvel, you can name several properties that've had multiple successful cartoons, cultural impact beyond comics over the past 30-40 years. And now, success in films.

    It might be possible to build up Flash, Green Lantern and Justice League franchises without that, but that would be case by case, basically starting from scratch.
    Last edited by Dr. Ellingham; 08-13-2019 at 12:17 PM.

  8. #4598
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Ellingham View Post
    Not at all. Superman and Batman have each had multiple successful cartoons, based upon which you could say they had some built-in cultural hooks, a built-in audience across decades.

    And lo and behold, just those two DC characters have had successful film franchises.

    Whereas Marvel, you can name several properties that've had multiple successful cartoons, cultural impact beyond comics over the past 30-40 years. And now, success in films.

    It might be possible to build up Flash, Green Lantern and Justice League franchises without that, but that would be case by case, basically starting from scratch.
    dude you are wrong, you can't ignore the big success and critical acclaim the JL TV series got 15 years ago. It got big ratings for the Cartoon Network and is considered one of the best animated series ever. It started with the Batman animated show, it continued with Superman show and then the team ups and JL series.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justic...ue_(TV_series)
    Last edited by stargazer01; 08-13-2019 at 12:48 PM.

  9. #4599
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Yeah the DCAU did wonders for the entire DCU. People still expect Question to act like DCAU Question for example. DC’s brand awareness in outside media far outstripped Marvel’s until the MCU, that’s partly why people rejected Snyder’s DCEU so strongly.

  10. #4600
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Ellingham View Post
    Whereas Marvel, you can name several properties that've had multiple successful cartoons, cultural impact beyond comics over the past 30-40 years. And now, success in films.
    I can think of only a few Marvel cartoons that have been as successful as DC's cartoons, especially the DCAU.

    Like, X-Men: The Animated Series for one. Spectacular Spider-Man and Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes, but those both got cut short.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Yeah the DCAU did wonders for the entire DCU. People still expect Question to act like DCAU Question for example. DC’s brand awareness in outside media far outstripped Marvel’s until the MCU, that’s partly why people rejected Snyder’s DCEU so strongly.
    The MCU in general feels like it captured a lot of what made the DCAU so successful in adapting the DC Universe.

    I think it was Godisawesome who also likened Young Justice's take on the DCU as very MCU-esque in how it connects and adapts everything together.

  11. #4601
    Fantastic Member Dr. Ellingham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    dude you are wrong, you can't ignore the big success and critical acclaim the JL TV series got 15 years ago.
    Great show. But it's 20 years old, and more importantly its success was built on the shoulders of DC's two biggest brands, obviously.

    Did it lead to a film series? Did the eventual JL film benefit from it in any way?

    Justice league should be a huge marketing IP, like the Avengers, but it only started outside comics in the year 2000, and effectively stopped when the show ended. Again, it's just not a bankable multimedia brand. At least not yet.

    By brand, I'm talking something that's bankable for >$700m in current ticket sales. Harry Potter, Star Wars, Batman, Avengers, Lord of the Rings, etc. It's not in that class.

  12. #4602
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I think Justice League is still one of DC's more marketable IP's even if the movie didn't do as well as it should.

    I'm still miffed CN canceled Justice League Action...

  13. #4603
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    So it looks like the rumors of major reshoots on BoP may have been true as they’re bringing in a new director to help with the action sequences. And it’s none other than Chad Stahelski, the director of John Wick. So even if the movie is terrible at least the action sequences should be entertaining.


  14. #4604
    Extraordinary Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
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    Oof! Extensive reshoots and a new director? Seldom harbingers of glad tidings for a film.
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    --Lord Alfred Tennyson--

  15. #4605
    Mighty Member chamber-music's Avatar
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    Suicide Squad sequel starts shooting in Atlanta next month. There will be a Panama club scene and there is a casting call for a central American president role.

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