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  1. #13546
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    How exactly would this film "correct" the DCEU? Also, Zach's movie never said which Robin died. We know he meant for it to be Dick, but it's easy to ignore that and pretend it's Jason.
    Also, how the heck is Dick Grayson the only hope in that universe?
    Dick being the only hope is hyperbole, but I can see their point: the combination of killing him and stuff like shooting Jimmy's face off and Superman's "symbol of hope" status being lip service at most is all a bit much right out of the gate.

    Dick and Jimmy in particular are bright spots in their respective franchises that humanize Batman and Superman in ways no other supporting character can quite replicate, so icing them in a shared cinematic universe that is trying to spread the message of "light in the darkness" seems counterproductive right from the start. You just took away Bruce's greatest achievement as a hero in someone else's life and Superman's best friend because he can't have a life outside of Lois and the JL apparently. But they saved the world from another ugly CGI alien invasion, so I guess things are hopeful?

  2. #13547
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Dick being the only hope is hyperbole, but I can see their point: the combination of killing him and stuff like shooting Jimmy's face off and Superman's "symbol of hope" status being lip service at most is all a bit much right out of the gate.

    Dick and Jimmy in particular are bright spots in their respective franchises that humanize Batman and Superman in ways no other supporting character can quite replicate, so icing them in a shared cinematic universe that is trying to spread the message of "light in the darkness" seems counterproductive right from the start. You just took away Bruce's greatest achievement as a hero in someone else's life and Superman's best friend because he can't have a life outside of Lois and the JL apparently. But they saved the world from another ugly CGI alien invasion, so I guess things are hopeful?
    Maybe - it's no secret that I'm not a great Robin fan (he's alright in some things, cartoons especially, but I'm not a fan of including him in live action films with Batman at all - solo Nightwing stuff like Titans sure, but actually the Dynamic Duo stuff no), and I've always been indifferent to Jimmy. So to me they're not the big bright spots of hope in either franchise like they might be with others. You can do hopeful in Batman without Dick or honestly any of the Robins, and for Superman I always found him himself the bright hopeful spot, with Lois a pretty equal but more spunky bright spot. Mind you, I can understand Dick fans bristling that he was dead before the film even starts, and Jimmy getting killed on screen early was brutal and too much, but acting like that's when all hope died is indeed hyperbole.

    And again, as much as Snyder meant for the dead Robin to be Dick, since the film never said that it's easy to ignore. So I'm not sure how Rac wants the Flash movie to "correct" the DCEU if his only other point is dead Dick - it's kind of weird to pin your hopes on a movie to retcon something that you can literally retcon with one or two lines of dialog in another movie anyway. What else needs fixing? WB has already moved on an decided to do black Clark Kent Superman no matter what, so DCEU Supes is out (outside of the open invitation to get his ass handed to him by Black Adam to appease the Rock - literally the only reason WB would include Superman in the DCEU right now, especially if played by Cavill), and a younger Batman will be handled entirely out of universe. So all that's left are the parts of the DCEU that don't need to change - Aquaman, Shazam, Wonder Woman, and the Suicide Squad. I guess you could "correct" the BOP ala changing Cass Cain (there's no bringing Oracle into it since Barbara's getting a Batgirl movie), but that's about it.

  3. #13548
    Extraordinary Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    Oh absolutley, but that how you get budget, batman performs well and it makes people trust lending money to that films. I really just hoping this film can just correct the DCEU as a whole using the speed force, that all. When Zach killed robin, he basically destroyed hope in that universe.
    Yeah but for Batman to become a juggernaut in the first place somebody would have to have taken a chance on his film/show in the first place.

  4. #13549
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Yeah but for Batman to become a juggernaut in the first place somebody would have to have taken a chance on his film/show in the first place.
    To be fair, in 1943 there were fewer known established properties in theaters, so they kind of had to take more risks back then.
    #batman-serial

  5. #13550
    Boing Boing Baggies. Baggie_Saiyan's Avatar
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    A few months later and I am struggling to remember anything from TSS, maybe it wasn't such a good film as I thought lol.
    "Yes...Mondo Cool"- Vegeta.

  6. #13551
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baggie_Saiyan View Post
    A few months later and I am struggling to remember anything from TSS, maybe it wasn't such a good film as I thought lol.
    It was a James Gunn Suicide Squad, that's for sure.

  7. #13552
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baggie_Saiyan View Post
    A few months later and I am struggling to remember anything from TSS, maybe it wasn't such a good film as I thought lol.
    I absolutely loved it. Easily one of my favorite DC movies.

  8. #13553
    Incredible Member Castling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baggie_Saiyan View Post
    A few months later and I am struggling to remember anything from TSS, maybe it wasn't such a good film as I thought lol.
    Maybe you fell asleep while watching it. I remember everything from that film, especially how much better it was than Ayer's take.

  9. #13554
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castling View Post
    Maybe you fell asleep while watching it. I remember everything from that film, especially how much better it was than Ayer's take.
    Agreed. For me it was one of the best films that DC has done.

  10. #13555
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    How exactly would this film "correct" the DCEU? Also, Zach's movie never said which Robin died. We know he meant for it to be Dick, but it's easy to ignore that and pretend it's Jason.
    Also, how the heck is Dick Grayson the only hope in that universe?
    bruce wayne is a much different person when dick grayson is alive.

  11. #13556
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baggie_Saiyan View Post
    A few months later and I am struggling to remember anything from TSS, maybe it wasn't such a good film as I thought lol.
    It was good, but I wouldn't exactly say memorable. The characters served their purpose without really gripping me.

  12. #13557
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    The ads for Zach Snyder’s Justice League blu ray release that have been on the back of monthly DC comics are so dark and muted that I almost feel like they’re trolling Snyder.

  13. #13558
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    bruce wayne is a much different person when dick grayson is alive.
    No, not really - like all things, it depends on the writer. Dick's been alive and well for some of the darkest Batman stories to date. The Killing Joke, Death in the Family, oodles and oodles of Joker as a mass serial killer, Batman broody, or crazy, or violent in the extreme. All with a very alive Dick and a very dark Bruce. Because the writers want him this or that way for their stories and don't give a darn if, how, or why Dick being alive should impact it. So Dick being dead or alive in the DCEU doesn't change how they'll portray Bruce in the slightest. It doesn't matter if the dead Robin in BvS was Dick or not, Affleck's Bruce was always going to act that way because that's what Snyder wanted.

  14. #13559
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    bruce wayne is a much different person when dick grayson is alive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    No, not really - like all things, it depends on the writer. Dick's been alive and well for some of the darkest Batman stories to date. The Killing Joke, Death in the Family, oodles and oodles of Joker as a mass serial killer, Batman broody, or crazy, or violent in the extreme. All with a very alive Dick and a very dark Bruce. Because the writers want him this or that way for their stories and don't give a darn if, how, or why Dick being alive should impact it. So Dick being dead or alive in the DCEU doesn't change how they'll portray Bruce in the slightest. It doesn't matter if the dead Robin in BvS was Dick or not, Affleck's Bruce was always going to act that way because that's what Snyder wanted.
    I mean, Bruce probably should be a better person with Dick alive and in his life. Unfortunately, tedious angst sells a lot so we get boring asshole Bruce in stories regardless of Dick's living or dead status (or anyone else's).

    I guess Dick being the dead Robin somewhat justifies the extremeness of Snyder's Batman if we're being generous. Dick is the original sidekick and the one he is by far the closest to and spent the most time with, and is even the only one in the DCEU. Snyder was going to do this no matter what, but Dick dying resulting in an even more unhinged Batman then when Jason died or when Tim got tortured in the DCAU makes a bit of sense considering Bruce has the strongest attachment to him (even when the others are present). But I'm doubtful that was on Snyder's mind, I imagine it was "we need to get to a DKR styled Batman and all the Robins are interchangeable, we might as well use the important one."

  15. #13560
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I mean, Bruce probably should be a better person with Dick alive and in his life. Unfortunately, tedious angst sells a lot so we get boring asshole Bruce in stories regardless of Dick's living or dead status (or anyone else's).

    I guess Dick being the dead Robin somewhat justifies the extremeness of Snyder's Batman if we're being generous. Dick is the original sidekick and the one he is by far the closest to and spent the most time with, and is even the only one in the DCEU. Snyder was going to do this no matter what, but Dick dying resulting in an even more unhinged Batman then when Jason died or when Tim got tortured in the DCAU makes a bit of sense considering Bruce has the strongest attachment to him (even when the others are present). But I'm doubtful that was on Snyder's mind, I imagine it was "we need to get to a DKR styled Batman and all the Robins are interchangeable, we might as well use the important one."
    Pretty much. I prefer Batman as a broody loner, but the mean asshole take some make him out to be isn't a version I'm fond of either, outside small doses depending on story (ASBaR was funny to me ok). But yeah, there was never an intention of having a living Dick Grayson on screen with Snyder, so it was always either he was going to be dead, or just not exist. Since he wanted a dead Robin for the DKR "homage" figured might as well go with the one people know of most. You can use it to justify the take, but honestly even if Dick was alive the movie wouldn't have changed - at best there'd be one line of dialog saying Dick's out in Bludhaven or something.

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