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  1. #9421
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Supposedly? So, just a rumor from nowhere or is there a reason to believe this?


    Just because I hate Superdad doesn't mean that is the only reason I don't trust this show to help Superman, so please don't make assumptions about why I'm skeptical if I haven't told you, and it feels like the whole Superman should be a dad thing is something that you're way too passionate about if the mere sniff that someone may be talking bad about it delivers this response from you. Did I say anything about that aspect of it? Did I? No. So please don't make an argument over what you believe I am going to say. Truth is I don't trust this show because frankly they've screwed over this Superman every chance they've had since Supergirl first started. He's been presented as a lame, third tier hero who only exists to be showed up by his cousin and Lex. I would be down on this series as a possible "good" thing for Superman even if I loved the Superdad take as much as you do, so don't go on a spiel without knowing my full reasons for feeling a certain way please, thank you very much.

    (And sorry if that came across strong, I honestly tried to be polite, but frankly you pissed me off so I couldn't help being a bit more frank - I get it, you love the damned Superdad schtick, but you don't have to be so damn quick to jump to that take's defense, especially when nobody even said anything about it, it'll just anger people when you get all pre-defensive like that. Yes I hate making him a dad, but don't go making assumptions that it's the only reason or the main reason I'm not looking forward to this. You know what they say, when you assume you make an ass of u and me.)
    Lmao I don’t love Superdad. I think it’s fine, I think Jon is fine, I enjoyed the first half and final arc of Tomasi’s run, but I’m not a diehard Superdad fan. If they were to get rid of it, and whatever they replaced it with was enjoyable, I’d shrug my shoulders and move on. My favorite run of the 2010s is Morrison’s New 52 Action Comics, hence my Avatar, and that starred a young 20 something unmarried Superman. I’ve been one of the biggest defenders of New 52 Superman, Bendis’ Superman runs where Jon was aged up and shipped off to the Legion, and I’ve been pretty consistent in saying that I don’t like Jurgens or post-New 52 Johns takes on the character. Hell I agree with Sacred a lot on his critiques and he hates Jon & the marriage as much as you do, so it’s not that you’re anti-Superdad.

    I just find all the complaints about Hoechlin to be misguided. Of course he’s not portrayed as the bestest ever, he wasn’t the Star, he was a side character. But now he is the star, and I think he’ll be treated far better than what we’ve gotten before. Obviously this is the CW, it’s going to have plenty of cheese and plenty of cringe but I’ve read the script for the first episode and I’m honestly satisfied by what I’ve seen so far. I don’t consider Superman’s strength to be an indicator of quality, otherwise Cavill would be the best Superman since he’s the best on screen rep of Superman’s power levels. Hoechlin makes Supes charming and likeable and funny and all that is way more important to me than whether he wins fights or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I would say that you should be prepared to be shocked. He's only getting that much because so much of the movie had already been filmed, covid has halted and slowed so much of their production, and they need more content for the streaming service. It's a perfect storm. It's a relatively cheap (compared to the cost of making another movie - 200 million vs 70) and easy way to get a event for HBO Max quick. There's no reason to assume they'll let Snyder continue beyond that.

    If the Snyder Cut blows everyone away and exceeds their wildest expectations it could move them to let him continue the Snyder-verse. But his previous DC films doesn't lend much hope there. Snyder's fans got lucky, but this is his final DC foray, not the beginning of a new path.
    We’ll see. They keep going back to Snyder over and over again, seemingly incapable or unwilling to move on. I expect this to be a critical flop but perhaps with Covid shutting down theaters, it may find enough viewers to be judged a success. And if it is, AT&T execs could look at the Snyderverse as their chance at a “The Boys” show. To be clear I hope it flops and that both Snyder and Cavill are done, neither of them has impressed me.
    Last edited by Vordan; 10-10-2020 at 06:09 PM.

  2. #9422
    Fantastic Member Castling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Supposedly? So, just a rumor from nowhere or is there a reason to believe this?
    I'd say it's a good possibility.
    Gotham City PD on HBO Max is a prequel to Matt Reeves's The Batman.
    Peacemaker on HBO Max is a spin-off of James Gunn's The Suicide Squad.
    Patty Jenkins's Amazon project will most likely land at HBO Max.
    James Wan has an animated Aquaman project landing on HBO Max, too.
    Since Johns is a producer on Lantern and writing the film adaptation, I'd guess they're connected.

  3. #9423
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Honestly, this is Simon's time to shine after being cut out of adaptions and screentime because of the other male lead GL's. Hal even stole his role as Jessica's partner in DCSHG.
    I just don't see what Simon adds to the franchise. There are already way too many male GLs and Jessica is such a better character as far as the newer GL characters go. They don't need to reduce her appearances or screen time for a lesser character in Simon. Plus his whole 9/11 origin was really poorly thought out. In a universe where there are alien invasions and villains taking over and destroying whole cities a 9/11 style terrorist attack is like nothing compared to them. To me he is just an idea that didn't quite work and I think it would be best to just move on.

  4. #9424
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Lmao I donít love Superdad. I think itís fine, I think Jon is fine, I enjoyed the first half and final arc of Tomasiís run, but Iím not a diehard Superdad fan. If they were to get rid of it, and whatever they replaced it with was enjoyable, Iíd shrug my shoulders and move on. My favorite run of the 2010s is Morrisonís New 52 Action Comics, hence my Avatar, and that starred a young 20 something unmarried Superman. Iíve been one of the biggest defenders of New 52 Superman, Bendisí Superman runs where Jon was aged up and shipped off to the Legion, and Iíve been pretty consistent in saying that I donít like Jurgens or post-New 52 Johns takes on the character. Hell I agree with Sacred a lot on his critiques and he hates Jon & the marriage as much as you do, so itís not that youíre anti-Superdad.
    Yeah sorry, I guess I got a bit bent out of shape when you jumped the gun on why I'm skeptical about this show.
    (I also don't think any of the CW shows are as big or reaching as people try to make out - for tv I feel like the CW is still fairly niche. Not as much as comics themselves, but just not that important to pop culture compared to bigger and better shows on other channels and streaming services.)

    I just find all the complaints about Hoechlin to be misguided. Of course heís not portrayed as the bestest ever, he wasnít the Star, he was a side character. But now he is the star, and I think heíll be treated far better than what weíve gotten before.
    But other side characters weren't treated as poorly. In the Flash they didn't make Jay weak to prop up Barry.
    Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, but you have to see where I and others are coming from. There's not much reason for us to just automatically have faith now all of a sudden. There's no reason we should forgive how the character has been treated so far.

    Obviously this is the CW, itís going to have plenty of cheese and plenty of cringe but Iíve read the script for the first episode and Iím honestly satisfied by what Iíve seen so far. I donít consider Supermanís strength to be an indicator of quality, otherwise Cavill would be the best Superman since heís the best on screen rep of Supermanís power levels. Hoechlin makes Supes charming and likeable and funny and all that is way more important to me than whether he wins fights or not.
    Also another problem - I unlike you haven't found him to be charming. He's kind of the blandest Clark Kent and Superman I've seen. I equate him to a paper bag - gets the job done, but is as memorable as a paper bag. Maybe on his own show they'll give him enough that maybe he can change that, but right now he has only ever bored me.

    I think a lot of the love for him is that he looks right. He looks the part. But that's not enough for me - beyond having the appearance nailed down, nothing the actor has done in the role has made me feel more than, God he's bland about his take.

    Weíll see. They keep going back to Snyder over and over again, seemingly incapable or unwilling to move on. I expect this to be a critical flop but perhaps with Covid shutting down theaters, it may find enough viewers to be judged a success. And if it is, AT&T execs could look at the Snyderverse as their chance at a ďThe BoysĒ show. To be clear I hope it flops and that both Snyder and Cavill are done, neither of them has impressed me.
    Oo
    Yeah no, this is a flawed premise. Keep going back to him? He's done 3 movies, and the third was more Whedon than him. Basically he has done Man of Steel which while divisive but profitable enough to push through Batman v Superman. BvS was the flop, but by that point he was already well into making Justice League. Then his daughter committed suicide and Whedon took over and really made his own movie out of it. Then under very special and specific circumstances he's been allowed to take his mostly finished cut of Justice League and end it his way.

    And yet somehow WB is continually coming back to him?

    Look, it's not ever going beyond him finishing this film, and wishing it to fail is petty. He's not steering the DC ship ever again and this isn't a threat to whatever DC stuff comes after. I hope it's successful, makes a profit so he and his fans can be happy, and that we finally move on and stop treating this like some kind of antichrist.

  5. #9425
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castling View Post
    I'd say it's a good possibility.
    Gotham City PD on HBO Max is a prequel to Matt Reeves's The Batman.
    Peacemaker on HBO Max is a spin-off of James Gunn's The Suicide Squad.
    Patty Jenkins's Amazon project will most likely land at HBO Max.
    James Wan has an animated Aquaman project landing on HBO Max, too.
    Since Johns is a producer on Lantern and writing the film adaptation, I'd guess they're connected.
    So rumor from nowhere, but a logical one. Could be then. It makes sense, but it's just an educated guess for now.

  6. #9426
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    I just don't see what Simon adds to the franchise. There are already way too many male GLs and Jessica is such a better character as far as the newer GL characters go. They don't need to reduce her appearances or screen time for a lesser character in Simon. Plus his whole 9/11 origin was really poorly thought out. In a universe where there are alien invasions and villains taking over and destroying whole cities a 9/11 style terrorist attack is like nothing compared to them. To me he is just an idea that didn't quite work and I think it would be best to just move on.
    Jessica totally outshines him in terms of popularity, but I think Baz is cool. He and her have a good buddy cop dynamic and the Green Lanterns Rebirth run was great under Humphries. You could swap Baz out with Kyle I suppose but I dunno, I think it works.

  7. #9427
    Extraordinary Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castling View Post
    I'd say it's a good possibility.
    Gotham City PD on HBO Max is a prequel to Matt Reeves's The Batman.
    Peacemaker on HBO Max is a spin-off of James Gunn's The Suicide Squad.
    Patty Jenkins's Amazon project will most likely land at HBO Max.
    James Wan has an animated Aquaman project landing on HBO Max, too.
    Since Johns is a producer on Lantern and writing the film adaptation, I'd guess they're connected.
    For what it's worth, both GCPD and Peacemaker were announced to be connected to their respective movies from the get go. The Green Lantern HBO Max announcement doesn't mention the Green Lantern Corps reboot or the DCEU at all. Johns has been a producer on nearly all DC shows so his involvement doesn't really indicate it's the same continuity. And if it is, wouldn't a villain like Sinestro be off limits and saved for the big screen as well, yet he's there. Didn't Hamada say some time ago that they were done limiting creative freedom and putting restrictions on filmmakers. It's an odd situation either way.
    Last edited by Johnny; 10-11-2020 at 02:44 AM.

  8. #9428
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Look, it's not ever going beyond him finishing this film, and wishing it to fail is petty. He's not steering the DC ship ever again and this isn't a threat to whatever DC stuff comes after. I hope it's successful, makes a profit so he and his fans can be happy, and that we finally move on and stop treating this like some kind of antichrist.
    First it was “they will never release the Snyder Cut”. Then it was “Affleck is never coming back”. Then it was “Snyder will get the money to finish CGI but not to do more scenes”. Look they’re pouring $70 million into this thing. Every time people have insisted that no they aren’t going to give X to Snyder they’ve been wrong. We’re getting his Cut, Affleck is back, he’s doing more scenes. I guarantee you Snyder will be including a cliffhanger specifically because he’s hoping AT&T will let him continue, and they most likely will. This isn’t a swan song, it’s them trying to revive the DCEU. Maybe I’ll turn out wrong, but the only way I’d be convinced of that is if they actually recast Superman and officially drop Cavill, or Cavill comes back but a new director gets to make Superman movies. Until then I’d be careful about ruling out anything when it comes to Snyder, no one has failed upwards quite like he has. He hasn’t made a well received movie since Watchman in 2009 yet they just keep giving him more money.

  9. #9429
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    And yet somehow WB is continually coming back to him?

    Look, it's not ever going beyond him finishing this film, and wishing it to fail is petty. He's not steering the DC ship ever again and this isn't a threat to whatever DC stuff comes after. I hope it's successful, makes a profit so he and his fans can be happy, and that we finally move on and stop treating this like some kind of antichrist.
    We shouldn't keep treating it like an Antichrist (hopefully the extremes on the other end will someday stop deifying it), but Hell has frozen over and a lot of things are happening that nobody would have seriously expected to happen.

    No way either Snyder or the Snyder Cut crowd settle for this one installment if there is a chance they can do more. The chances of people fully moving on from it (on either side) dissipated for the foresseable future with the announcement.

  10. #9430
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    I just don't see what Simon adds to the franchise. There are already way too many male GLs and Jessica is such a better character as far as the newer GL characters go. They don't need to reduce her appearances or screen time for a lesser character in Simon. Plus his whole 9/11 origin was really poorly thought out. In a universe where there are alien invasions and villains taking over and destroying whole cities a 9/11 style terrorist attack is like nothing compared to them. To me he is just an idea that didn't quite work and I think it would be best to just move on.
    Simon is a fresh face and plays off Jessica well. Considering race relations in the US at the moment I think his issues and background are still fairly relevant.

  11. #9431
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    First it was ďthey will never release the Snyder CutĒ. Then it was ďAffleck is never coming backĒ. Then it was ďSnyder will get the money to finish CGI but not to do more scenesĒ. Look theyíre pouring $70 million into this thing. Every time people have insisted that no they arenít going to give X to Snyder theyíve been wrong. Weíre getting his Cut, Affleck is back, heís doing more scenes. I guarantee you Snyder will be including a cliffhanger specifically because heís hoping AT&T will let him continue, and they most likely will. This isnít a swan song, itís them trying to revive the DCEU. Maybe Iíll turn out wrong, but the only way Iíd be convinced of that is if they actually recast Superman and officially drop Cavill, or Cavill comes back but a new director gets to make Superman movies. Until then Iíd be careful about ruling out anything when it comes to Snyder, no one has failed upwards quite like he has. He hasnít made a well received movie since Watchman in 2009 yet they just keep giving him more money.
    The Affleck thing has nothing to do with Snyder. People like Affleck's Batman. It's like saying that they keep coming back to Snyder because Gadot and Momoa are still Wonder Woman and Aquaman. So really you only have two points, that Snyder gets his Cut and he got more money to finish it right. And we've already gone over the extraordinary set of circumstances surrounding that. There's really no reason to assume that there's going to be more to it than that. As for them reviving the DCEU, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Shazam, Birds of Prey, all already exists in the DCEU. What you mean is that they'll revive Snyder's direction for the DCEU, and I don't see this cut doing that. Why are you so threatened by this one movie?

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    We shouldn't keep treating it like an Antichrist (hopefully the extremes on the other end will someday stop deifying it), but Hell has frozen over and a lot of things are happening that nobody would have seriously expected to happen.

    No way either Snyder or the Snyder Cut crowd settle for this one installment if there is a chance they can do more. The chances of people fully moving on from it (on either side) dissipated for the foresseable future with the announcement.
    It doesn't matter whether they'll settle for it or not - Snyder doesn't have another DCEU film that is already mostly shot to bargain with. The Snyder Cut is appealing because most of it is shot, and during covid at a time when you need to get new and exclusive material for your streaming service, something you can largely throw CGI on while social distancing looks somewhat more of a godsend than usual - never mind the controversy over it means more eyes on it whether people love it or not.

    But it's going to be another Man of Steel or Batman v Superman. Enough on the front end to be profitable probably, but a steep decline after. But for streaming, it's acceptable. But that's not enough to go on and warrant giving him another 200 million to film a new movie that has to be shot from scratch afterwards. Certainly not enough to let him control the direction of the DCEU and it's biggest heroes like he did before. If, and it's a BIG if, Snyder has any further future with the DCEU, it'll be in a much, much, much smaller capacity than it was before. Maybe a smaller budgeted stand alone movie ala Shazam or Birds of Prey, maybe something straight to streaming. But no more Superman, Batman, Justice League titles. This is most likely his DC swan song, and if it ain't and he still has a future, it's not going to signal a return to the bad old days where he was steering the ship. It's like being afraid that if a sequel to BOP happens with the same director that she'll be allowed to drive the direction of the DCEU going forward. It won't happen. This movie isn't a threat. All it means is we're effectively getting another movie. That's it. We didn't lose some movie that will never see the light of day now because this got approved, Snyder isn't getting the keys to the kingdom back, and if he makes any further films here (again not likely) they won't be the narrative force for a whole phase of the DCEU like before. This isn't a threat.

  12. #9432
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    Look at how long it took for people to stop bitching about Batman and Robin after that film came out. If there is one thing online fans are good at, it's holding grudges over petty things that even supervillains would be amazed by. This thread alone is proof of that with the people who hate Snyder paying more attention to him and the movies he makes than the ones supposedly deifying him. They've mostly gotten what they want and still find reasons to whine. The mere fact that this cut exists at all is tantamount to a war crime for them and while there are definitely extremes on both sides, the haters are being way more obnoxious about one thing they don't like rather than just doing the rational thing and focusing on what does make them happy.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 10-12-2020 at 03:29 AM.

  13. #9433
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Look at how long it took for people to stop bitching about Batman and Robin after that film came out. If there is one thing online fans are good at, it's holding grudges over petty things that even supervillains would be amazed by. This thread alone is proof of that with the people who hate Snyder paying more attention to him and the movies he makes than the ones supposedly deifying him. They've mostly gotten what they want and still find reasons to whine. The mere fact that this cut exists at all is tantamount to a war crime for them and while there are definitely extremes on both sides, the haters are being way more obnoxious about one thing they don't like rather than just doing the rational thing and focusing on what does make them happy.
    Did you miss the Snyder fanboys on Twitter going after Doc Shaner or something? Trust me, they have a well deserved reputation as one of the most toxic fan bases on the Internet. They are far worse than Snyder haters are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Snip
    I’ll just keep it brief and say I think you’re wrong, that people said the same thing you’re saying and were proven wrong, and I’ll happily admit you were right if this does end up being it.
    Last edited by Vordan; 10-12-2020 at 04:54 AM.

  14. #9434
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I’ll just keep it brief and say I think you’re wrong, that people said the same thing you’re saying and were proven wrong, and I’ll happily admit you were right if this does end up being it.
    Eh, to each their own I guess. I'll probably enjoy it for what it is while I await WW84 and The Batman.

  15. #9435
    Extraordinary Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    I don't think snyder is coming back.Regardless,i do hope black adam does well so that it shows the studios superman can be a kickass,debonair action hero and not some wet towel.

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