DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[Garrac]

Wait... Ezra Miller has recorded scenes for Flashpoint between crime and crime? They should be on jail at this point!

[John Venus]

DC needs to recognize their own strengths, take risks on obscure properties and figure out what works and what doesn't work.

They need to give the audience what Marvel can't or wouldn't. Both WBD and fans seems to think the solutions is to go grim dark x10 but that is a terrible solution. Not every character can or should be grim dark.

Myskin is correct and it's something that I have been thinking about as well; there are things that are not unique to Marvel but now they are going to be seen as 'Marvel things'. The Multiverse is not a Marvel thing but if the MCU pulls off the Multiverse Saga it's going to be seen as a Marvel thing. More people have seen NWH than they have seen CW's COIE cross over. Legacy heroes are not unique to Marvel but people are going to think so if the D+ shows continue to successful or moderately descent while we DC fans have to contend with abysmal shows like Titans. If DC ever gets around to doing a truly faithful depiction of Perez's Wonder Woman, are we going to see people accuse Phillipus of being a rip off of Okoye even though Phillipus predates Nakia and Okoye? If we see Diana opening up Themysicra to the world are we going to see people accuse the story of ripping off Black Panther even though T'Challa and Diana opening up their respective countries to the rest of the world is something that both franchises have in common without either of them ripping off each other?
Or worse, I can see hurdles in getting DC properties off the ground because some higher up going 'oh no, this is too similar to what Marvel did in that movie or show'. Like the rumors about DC turning down a Vixen project because of their preceived similarities to Black Panther. Sure you can point to the DTV movies and CW shows the characters have appeared in but those audiences are small compared to the massive audience the MCU has.

The solution shouldn't be to go too grim dark, it should be:

-pick the character and decide the tone based on the character.

-recognize DC's strengths. DC usually has way more to offer than just superheroes. They have Westerns based characters like Jonah Hex, war based characters like the Losers, Sgt Rock and the Blackhawks. They have fantasy such Gaiman's Sandman, Grell's Warlord and Amethyst of Gem world. They also have various imprints like the Charlton characters, the Milestone characters and the Freedom Fighters that could cross over with the regular DCU but still be in their own little worlds (especially the Milestone characters). It's a shame that Sandman couldn't be marketed as a DCU product, it doesn't have to be set in the DCEU Multiverse. DC could expand their universe without having to saturate the market with just sueprheroes. Furthermore, their properties could be more standalone without being obligated to cross over with each other. If they do, it's cool but they are not dependent on cross overs for their universe to function.

I also felt that DC has a better roster of female heroes and Asian characters and it's a shame they haven't capitalized on that. DC also has done a consistently done a better job of representing LGBTQ characters in their adaptations than the MCU has.

[John Venus]

Wait... Ezra Miller has recorded scenes for Flashpoint between crime and crime? They should be on jail at this point!

I was surprised by that too. Especially since a couple of days ago there were reports of his problematic beahviour on other films he's worked on.

[Myskin]

The solution shouldn't be to go too grim dark, it should be:
-pick the character and decide the tone based on the character.

I guess that we are on the same page here, but again - the key is always the creative forces behind it, the vision they have, how free they are to express themselves. There's plenty of good, reliable and interesting directors out there; provided they are interested in superhero properties (I mean, stuff like The Green Knight and Everything Everywhere all at Once is infinitely more creative and interesting than anything superhero-related, so why should they make Superman or Wonder Woman instead?), they should be free to follow their vision and flex their creative muscles.
Of course, that doesn't mean that the studios should accept literally EVERYTHING from the directors. I'll never understand how Wonder Woman 84 - a movie whose only redeeming quality is that it isn't even important enough to be remembered as the total joke it is - went beyond the script stage. Seriously, as soon as Patty Jenkins and whoever was co-writing the movie with her submitted the script they should have just scrapped it, or replaced Jenkins with someone else (heck, at Disney they replace their directors all the time and never particularly hurts them).
But yes, the tone is important and should be unique for each character - even if this makes it harder for them to create a shared universe. It is 100% clear that Batman and Superman don't have much to do with each other except for very specific, unique occasions (Dark Knight Returns and stuff like that), and making the tone of these characters more unique would make it even harder for them to interact with each other. But again, this is something Marvel has already done and more successfully for years - the reason why their movies often look and sound alike is that the entire franchise was created as shared universe from the very beginning. So why should DC decide to do the same if Marvel has already covered the "shared universe" thing? Yes, money and shortsighted plans.

Anyway, I wouldn't be particularly surprised if they decide they don't need a unique approach for each character and they just follow the Marvel route - the tone is something DC comic books have been struggling for years, too.

-recognize DC's strengths. DC usually has way more to offer than just superheroes. They have Westerns based characters like Jonah Hex, war based characters like the Losers, Sgt Rock and the Blackhawks. They have fantasy such Gaiman's Sandman, Grell's Warlord and Amethyst of Gem world. They also have various imprints like the Charlton characters, the Milestone characters and the Freedom Fighters that could cross over with the regular DCU but still be in their own little worlds (especially the Milestone characters). It's a shame that Sandman couldn't be marketed as a DCU product, it doesn't have to be set in the DCEU Multiverse. DC could expand their universe without having to saturate the market with just sueprheroes. Furthermore, their properties could be more standalone without being obligated to cross over with each other. If they do, it's cool but they are not dependent on cross overs for their universe to function.

You can do whatever you want, but again - you must gain the audience's trust before.
Just for discussion's sake, if WBD presented itself not as a "superhero movies" studio, but as a "fantasy movies" studio (that's what Disney was before the 2000s, when they made Mary Poppins but also Dragonslayer and stuff like that; of course they were mostly very family and kid-friendly, something WBD doesn't need to be IMHO) they wouldn't even need a shared universe. They could be just a series of separate franchises aimed at different audiences - they could make a cyberpunk Superman and a Sword and Sorcery Wonder Woman, completely separate from each other - and in the mid/long-term even Jonah Hex and the Freedom Fighters could have an audience. But again, it is something which needs time, organization and creativity to be done.

[chamber-music]

WB certainly has a lot to offer.

Spielberg has wanted to make a Blackhawks movie since the early eighties. He has been a Blackhawks fan since he saw the serials as a kid. If I was WB I would greenlight that movie.

Plastic Man would make a good more comedic superhero film. The Question would make a good mystery noir type film.

There is money in those Milestone and Wildstorm properties as well.

[Lightning Rider]

On one hand, I understand the argument that the MCU has arrived first to a lot of concepts. But at the same time, DC has opportunities to make their movies feel unique of they lean into the core concepts harder than the MCU does.

Ant-Man (from watching the first and seeing parts of the 2nd) has in no way exhausted the possibilities of what shrinking to atomic levels can offer visually and conceptually. There's room to explore there.

None of the alien worlds the MCU have explored have been fully fleshed out IMO; Green Lantern and Superman have plenty to break ground with there.

Characters like Phantom Stranger, Dead Man, and the Spectre can really tap into very surreal, horror-tinged mystery movies.

There are plenty of period pieces to be had with the Hawks, Vandal Savage, Arion, the JSA, etc.


Put the effort into each setting and breaking new visual ground and people will notice.

[Serpico Jones]

There’s rumors spreading around Twitter that DC employees are bracing for an extremely damning report on Ezra Miller. Apparently it’s going to “make the Armie Hammer stuff look like Mr Rogers”.

[superduperman]

There’s rumors spreading around Twitter that DC employees are bracing for an extremely damning report on Ezra Miller. Apparently it’s going to “make the Armie Hammer stuff look like Mr Rogers”.

Seeing as how Armie Hammer now has an official documentary, that's not a good sign.

[Refrax5]

There’s rumors spreading around Twitter that DC employees are bracing for an extremely damning report on Ezra Miller. Apparently it’s going to “make the Armie Hammer stuff look like Mr Rogers”.

Yikes. I just wanted to watch a Flash movie, man.

[D.Z]

Time to axe the movie.

[Frontier]

A movie Crisis would feel redundant after TV Crisis unless they got more guest stars, I guess. Or a better-looking Anti-Monitor.

[phonogram12]

THR also confirmed The Flash would lead into a Crisis on Infinite Earths mega event film.

Dude, WB is just constantly trying to run before it can walk with DC, aren't they?

[Gaius]

Dude, WB is just constantly trying to run before it can walk with DC, aren't they?

Walk?

They can't even crawl straight.

[Tofali]

Seeing as how Armie Hammer now has an official documentary, that's not a good sign.

Wow! It is actually considered a documentary?

A movie Crisis would feel redundant after TV Crisis unless they got more guest stars, I guess. Or a better-looking Anti-Monitor.

Redundant to only the ppl who have watched the tv stuff and even then I don't think they matter much. Movies can still do their own version and not be compared.

[phonogram12]

Walk?

They can't even crawl straight.

Like, if they really want to copy Marvel they should just concentrate on making a good movie first then maybe save all those interconnecting dots for a mid/end-credits scene like they did in Phase 1. They will not be at the point where they can make the entirety of every movie they release about an Endgame-like event any time in the near future.