DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[Thezmage]

Like I said, you could say the same about Punisher and Iron Man with Vietnam or Reed Richards and Ben Grimm in WW2 and the Cold War.

We've had a lot more wars like Vietnam and conflicts like the Cold War than we've had wars like WW2

[Frontier]

I don't think they need to be from the modern day, but from a bygone era (like Smallville) or a retro-styled Earth 2 (think Earth 2 on the Flash or Batman TAS). They should be older veteran heroes. The WW2 stuff just makes it all so convoluted now.

I guess it just depends how you want to implement the JSA. Earth-2 style? Post-Crisis style? In something that probably won't focus on them that much? And where you want to go with them from there.

Reed and Ben's thing not being important in adaptations is my point. The JSA doesn't really use WW2 in some adaptations. The only real difference is that people are used to it being one way and are resistant to anything different.

I don't think the examples you cited really indicate WWII not being important, especially since they're dwarfed by the adaptions or takes that do use it. . I mean, people can be resistant to change but sometimes there are good reasons for why they're resistant to it without a better alternative.

Why do characters from jsa have to be from bygone era when batman,superman and ww don't?

They get less importance..let me ask you,why make a fuss about justice league live action? Their last one wasn't very good.yet,they still try to force it to happen.why not make jsa instead?When they decided to make dc shared universe they went with jl.That itself shows you jsa is a b team for JL.

Because them serving in WWII was more important than it is for the Trinity after the Crisis? At least for the older members.

I don't need Michael Holt or Courtney Whitmore in WWII but Terry Sloane and Sylvester Pemberton? It shows the teams' history and historical significance in contrast to their modern incarnation.

The JL has the Big Seven so that's why they usually get priority.

Maybe, maybe not. I think dropping the war stuff and setting them and their world's history in a sort of perpetual "they debuted between 30 to 50 years ago" in a sliding timeline would work fine (for the old guard members).

And you can complain all you want, but it's not me who considers them the B team, it's DC.

If we're using a sliding timeline thing I don't see what's the issue with keeping WWII. It's basically how Stargirl handled it.

DC having an issue with using the team well is a DC problem, not a character problem. Heck, they can't even use the JL all that well any more.

Does the WWII stuff matter to the current team so much we need to keep coming up with "fixes" to keep it? The easiest fix would be to just drop it.

It matters to the current team in as far as the background for the group for the legacies and for the older members who have been on the team since then.

I don't think people really cared all that much about it in their modern comic runs.

[Vakanai]

If we're using a sliding timeline thing I don't see what's the issue with keeping WWII. It's basically how Stargirl handled it.

Did it? I admit to having missed several episodes of the second season due to weather and reception difficulties, but I honestly don't recall them really mentioning or using WWII in any of the episodes I saw, or any reference in season one. And you know what? That's worked just fine for me.

DC having an issue with using the team well is a DC problem, not a character problem. Heck, they can't even use the JL all that well any more.

Maybe you view it that way, but I really don't believe that being the team of the past has done them any favors.

It matters to the current team in as far as the background for the group for the legacies and for the older members who have been on the team since then.

All that matters in that respect is the sense of history and legacy itself, which frankly doesn't need to rely on WWII to work. The more that era is removed, the more that the older members of the JSA should just not exist in the current line up at all. If they were to have all died off and all the current members were their grandkids or more likely great grandkids, or just people inspired by them, then the WWII stuff would be fine. But right now, it's just this weird insistence by fans who hate change imo.

I don't think people really cared all that much about it in their modern comic runs.

That's not really an argument for keeping a tie in to a war with fewer and fewer veterans still living.
When the last soldier who served in a war has died, I don't think that we should still have all these heroes remain veterans of said war.

[Frontier]

Did it? I admit to having missed several episodes of the second season due to weather and reception difficulties, but I honestly don't recall them really mentioning or using WWII in any of the episodes I saw, or any reference in season one. And you know what? That's worked just fine for me.

I think they explicitly mention they'd been around since WWII. Charles McNider (Dr. Mid-Nite) was confirmed to be born in the 1930's I believe.

Maybe you view it that way, but I really don't believe that being the team of the past has done them any favors.

I think that has more to do with DC not knowing what to do with/mis-managing their IP's. The JSA isn't the only victim of this, and the fact that they've had successful modern runs indicates that their backstory isn't really the issue but a writing/commitment one.

All that matters in that respect is the sense of history and legacy itself, which frankly doesn't need to rely on WWII to work. The more that era is removed, the more that the older members of the JSA should just not exist in the current line up at all. If they were to have all died off and all the current members were their grandkids or more likely great grandkids, or just people inspired by them, then the WWII stuff would be fine. But right now, it's just this weird insistence by fans who hate change imo.

Yeah, but that sense of history is kind of tied to them fighting in WWII and beating up Nazi's. The older members who still exist on the present-day team usually have a plot related reason why they're still alive and able to fight crime and they're usually the ones who don't have a direct descendant on the team.

I think the biggest exception is Alan's kids but I think you can probably come up with something for them.

That's not really an argument for keeping a tie in to a war with fewer and fewer veterans still living.
When the last soldier who served in a war has died, I don't think that we should still have all these heroes remain veterans of said war.

I mean, if most people don't seem to find an issue with it from what I can tell, I don't think it's that much of a barrier of entry, nor do I think that in a fictional universe it's wrong to incorporate characters who were part of a pivotal moment of history that should still be remembered.

[Vakanai]

I think they explicitly mention they'd been around since WWII. Charles McNider (Dr. Mid-Nite) was confirmed to be born in the 1930's I believe.

If they mentioned it then it must've been a very minor line or in one of the handful of second season episodes I missed.
If he was born in the 1930s then he was too young to have been a hero during WWII.

I think that has more to do with DC not knowing what to do with/mis-managing their IP's. The JSA isn't the only victim of this, and the fact that they've had successful modern runs indicates that their backstory isn't really the issue but a writing/commitment one.

No one has said that their backstory is the issue, but it is a issue. It's not doing them any favors.

Yeah, but that sense of history is kind of tied to them fighting in WWII and beating up Nazi's. The older members who still exist on the present-day team usually have a plot related reason why they're still alive and able to fight crime and they're usually the ones who don't have a direct descendant on the team.

It doesn't have to be tied to it however. That sense of history can be accomplished without it. And it would allow them to exist without a forced plot related reason, as well as their spouses and kids.
What does the WWII angle add to the team now that can't easily be accomplished without it? Besides the fun of having punched Nazis. I mean, a time travel story arc could provide that.

I mean, if most people don't seem to find an issue with it from what I can tell, I don't think it's that much of a barrier of entry, nor do I think that in a fictional universe it's wrong to incorporate characters who were part of a pivotal moment of history that should still be remembered.

Most people in this instance being an ever dwindling subgroup of comic book fans. I think ditching the complicated backstory could help with that.
And it was a pivotal moment of history. This isn't a history book tho, it's superheroes. If they're not fighting Nazis in WWII in their ongoing now, what's the point? It oddly dates them. Unless we keep them in that era, it doesn't serve a purpose now.

[Lightning Rider]

Does the WWII stuff matter to the current team so much we need to keep coming up with "fixes" to keep it? The easiest fix would be to just drop it.

I think it matters greatly to the legacy of the original members, yes.

[Frontier]

If they mentioned it then it must've been a very minor line or in one of the handful of second season episodes I missed.
If he was born in the 1930s then he was too young to have been a hero during WWII.

They don't really dwell a lot on the timeline issues between how old the JSA are meant to be and how long they've been around, let alone how old Pat was because all the Seven Soldiers stuff and the JSA.

No one has said that their backstory is the issue, but it is a issue. It's not doing them any favors.

To be honest I doubt the older team being around in WWII is the reason DC isn't currently publishing a JSA book nor would it be something that prevents people from reading a JSA book.

It doesn't have to be tied to it however. That sense of history can be accomplished without it. And it would allow them to exist without a forced plot related reason, as well as their spouses and kids.
What does the WWII angle add to the team now that can't easily be accomplished without it? Besides the fun of having punched Nazis. I mean, a time travel story arc could provide that.

I mean, if you want to create a fictional WWII equivalent that accomplishes the same idea, fine...but people would still probably look at it and go "oh yeah, that's basically just WWII in all but name" and I feel like people have taken bigger plot contrivances at face-value.

I think WWII creates a very strong, iconic, and recognizable vibe and historical significance to the original team and why they were so important. Especially when "punching Nazi's" is something they did on the regular and not in a one-off unless it's the modern day team like in that Johns run where they chase Per Degaton into the past.

Most people in this instance being an ever dwindling subgroup of comic book fans. I think ditching the complicated backstory could help with that.
And it was a pivotal moment of history. This isn't a history book tho, it's superheroes. If they're not fighting Nazis in WWII in their ongoing now, what's the point? It oddly dates them. Unless we keep them in that era, it doesn't serve a purpose now.

I mean, I'm only 27 and I think it's a big part of the whole story of the JSA and their historical significance. I think a lot of fans would feel the same way.

I don't think of it as a history book any more than your typical comic book backstory that informs the characters or significant events. Like, unless you want the classic JSA to be young 20-somethings in the present-day DCU, it's more to inform the modern-day JSA having to live up to what their predecessors did which was fight the good fight during one of the most trying time in world and American history.

Like what do people expect/want from the JSA?

[Lightning Rider]

What does the WWII angle add to the team now that can't easily be accomplished without it? Besides the fun of having punched Nazis. I mean, a time travel story arc could provide that.

The generation that helped defeat fascism has been venerated for over half a century in popular culture. Although nostalgia can cover up the societal flaws of the era, people still associate the WWII generation with certain values and qualities that thus inform how they see the original JSA. These themes, both aesthetically and with respect to character choices, are very easily conjured up in a WWII context. There is no easily translatable parallel in more recent history that accomplishes the same feat. Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, the Philippines - no other American war of intervention is viewed the same way. The simple black-and-white morality that the average person conceptualizes when thinking of World War 2 also fights right into the superhero construct that the original JSA was made from.

Why throw that all away when an audience will easily buy any of the half-dozen explanations we've come up with?

(This is almost akin to asking whether Captain America benefits from being a WWII hero.)

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

How does that account for the ages of their spouses and kids? Turning them into these immortal beings outliving all their loved ones changes them more than just amending their history, like comics do for virtually every other character.

So then how would you explain their spouses, offspring and legacies? Would Jen and Todd still be the daughter and son of Alan or would they be his great great grandchildren? 80+ years is a long time and I think it’s way easier to tie them to a fictional war then it would be to tie them to WW2…

You mean the same Jen who was born with the powers of the Starheart infused into her physical being and the same Todd who has a physical link to the Shadowlands, both of which are mystic and/or cosmic forces that could easily be said to grant them an extended lifespan?

Also, who says that Alan couldn't have fathered them well after the war? If he has an extended lifespan due to his powers, then who's to say he didn't have them in the 80s?

It's really not as insurmountable of an issue as you're painting it to be. The same thing you're describing is also present in Captain America comics. Sharon Carter was originally Peggy Carter's niece. Now, she's her grandniece. In a number of years, she'll be her great-grandniece. It's really not that big of a deal.

[Vakanai]

They don't really dwell a lot on the timeline issues between how old the JSA are meant to be and how long they've been around, let alone how old Pat was because all the Seven Soldiers stuff and the JSA.

To be honest I doubt the older team being around in WWII is the reason DC isn't currently publishing a JSA book nor would it be something that prevents people from reading a JSA book.

I mean, if you want to create a fictional WWII equivalent that accomplishes the same idea, fine...but people would still probably look at it and go "oh yeah, that's basically just WWII in all but name" and I feel like people have taken bigger plot contrivances at face-value.

I think WWII creates a very strong, iconic, and recognizable vibe and historical significance to the original team and why they were so important. Especially when "punching Nazi's" is something they did on the regular and not in a one-off unless it's the modern day team like in that Johns run where they chase Per Degaton into the past.

I mean, I'm only 27 and I think it's a big part of the whole story of the JSA and their historical significance. I think a lot of fans would feel the same way.

I don't think of it as a history book any more than your typical comic book backstory that informs the characters or significant events. Like, unless you want the classic JSA to be young 20-somethings in the present-day DCU, it's more to inform the modern-day JSA having to live up to what their predecessors did which was fight the good fight during one of the most trying time in world and American history.

Like what do people expect/want from the JSA?

The generation that helped defeat fascism has been venerated for over half a century in popular culture. Although nostalgia can cover up the societal flaws of the era, people still associate the WWII generation with certain values and qualities that thus inform how they see the original JSA. These themes, both aesthetically and with respect to character choices, are very easily conjured up in a WWII context. There is no easily translatable parallel in more recent history that accomplishes the same feat. Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, the Philippines - no other American war of intervention is viewed the same way. The simple black-and-white morality that the average person conceptualizes when thinking of World War 2 also fights right into the superhero construct that the original JSA was made from.

Why throw that all away when an audience will easily buy any of the half-dozen explanations we've come up with?

(This is almost akin to asking whether Captain America benefits from being a WWII hero.)

Look, I get that this is a passionate issue for you two, and you're both willing to debate about this for days. I'm not, so I'm just going to end it by saying that I disagree, I don't feel keeping the WWII stuff in the characters backstories are important, and if it is then they should just remain in period pieces forever fighting the Nazis as it's the only way where it really makes sense going forward.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Like I said, you could say the same about Punisher and Iron Man with Vietnam or Reed Richards and Ben Grimm in WW2 and the Cold War.

What Lightning Rider said is pretty much the perfect response to this post. If you need to see it, find it below:

The generation that helped defeat fascism has been venerated for over half a century in popular culture. Although nostalgia can cover up the societal flaws of the era, people still associate the WWII generation with certain values and qualities that thus inform how they see the original JSA. These themes, both aesthetically and with respect to character choices, are very easily conjured up in a WWII context. There is no easily translatable parallel in more recent history that accomplishes the same feat. Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, the Philippines - no other American war of intervention is viewed the same way. The simple black-and-white morality that the average person conceptualizes when thinking of World War 2 also fights right into the superhero construct that the original JSA was made from.

Why throw that all away when an audience will easily buy any of the half-dozen explanations we've come up with?

(This is almost akin to asking whether Captain America benefits from being a WWII hero.)

He's right. The reason why it's so easy to say that Punisher is no longer a Vietnam veteran than it is to say that the JSA are no longer veterans of WWII is that nobody views those two conflicts the same way. It may sound glib, but Vietnam is largely viewed as a mistake: a war of American aggression that spiraled out of control and was pointless in the end. Same thing with Iraq. Same thing with Afghanistan. WWII on the other hand is largely viewed as the last time that America was definitively "on the right side" and it's held up in pop culture as the one conflict that embodies and engenders American values of freedom and standing against hatred.

So, to take that away from the JSA means you're taking away one of the things that cement them as people who will always fight for what's right. And it would be viewed as much more disrespectful to create a fictional stand-in for WWII than it was for Marvel to create one for Vietnam because, again, Vietnam is not venerated the same way as WWII is. And on top of that, everything associated with WWII is looked at as a turning point in history and an event of immense consequence for humankind. Why do you think we still have films and TV shows about it 80+ years after the fact?

So, imagine how well it would go over if DC or Marvel decided to create a "fake" WWII. Or if Marvel decided that Magneto was no longer a Holocaust survivor but a survivor of a fictional genocide of Jews and other minorities carried out by a dictator who was a lot like Hitler but wasn't actually Hitler. I shouldn't have to tell you that THAT...would come off as incredibly tone-deaf and blatantly offensive to not only the generation that served in WWII but anyone who has learned the lessons of WWII.

[Frontier]

Look, I get that this is a passionate issue for you two, and you're both willing to debate about this for days. I'm not, so I'm just going to end it by saying that I disagree, I don't feel keeping the WWII stuff in the characters backstories are important, and if it is then they should just remain in period pieces forever fighting the Nazis as it's the only way where it really makes sense going forward.

Well, I think it's less important to have the present-day JSA deal with WWII but if we're talking about any of the "old timers" then it's important to have something like WWII in their backstory.

[Vakanai]

Well, I think it's less important to have the present-day JSA deal with WWII but if we're talking about any of the "old timers" then it's important to have something like WWII in their backstory.

Why? Why WWII specifically? What does it do that the characters can't be them without WWII in their history?

[Beantownbrown]

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[Vakanai]

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It's not April Fool's Day...