DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[InfamousBG]

Because he has too much baggage, too little appeal/star power, and is demanding too much pay and too much creative control. Honestly makes more sense to replace him than to try and negotiate.

Baggage? So its money? LOL!!!

I hated Man of Steel but it still brought in tons of $$$ and was a huge success. Just because you do not like him still cant change the facts.

Money. That is funny. Look at what Disney and Marvel did with paying their actors. They stuck around for 10 or more years, did a great job and people kept coming back to the theaters.

Now I am not saying WB/DC is the same as Disney/Marvel but WB has tons of $$$$. They can throw more money around better than anyone. So I doubt it is a $ issue.

Creative control? He would probably have a better say than what they did with that character. WB and DC has no idea how to use him at all. Look what they did back in 2006 with that awful Superman Returns.

What other baggage does Cavill have?

[Vordan]

Baggage? So its money? LOL!!!

I hated Man of Steel but it still brought in tons of $$$ and was a huge success. Just because you do not like him still cant change the facts.

No it wasn’t, that’s why they switched from the original plan of a stand-alone Superman trilogy to the shared universe in the first place. MoS made less profit than Shazam which is why there’s a Shazam 2 but there will be no MoS2.

Money. That is funny. Look at what Disney and Marvel did with paying their actors. They stuck around for 10 or more years, did a great job and people kept coming back to the theaters.

Did you miss all the pay disputes that surrounded the MCU or something? RDJ forcing Disney to pay his co-stars more by threatening to walk away? Scarlet suing Disney?

Now I am not saying WB/DC is the same as Disney/Marvel but WB has tons of $$$$. They can throw more money around better than anyone. So I doubt it is a $ issue.

This is naive. It’s always about money.

Creative control? He would probably have a better say than what they did with that character. WB and DC has no idea how to use him at all. Look what they did back in 2006 with that awful Superman Returns.

That’s true, he likely would do better than any of the execs at WB.

What other baggage does Cavill have?

He and Affleck were the “faces” of the DCEU which means rightly or wrongly they are associated with the state it’s in. The general audience associates Cavill with three poor showings as Superman in MoS, BvS, and JL. There’s no real affection or attachment to his version of the character. He also comes with a toxic fanbase of Snyderbros who only want him to show up under Snyder’s direction and will raise a fuss on social media if he’s not. Finally he hasn’t been playing ball with WB and instead has made life difficult for them. He pulled out on doing the Shazam cameo literally on the day it was supposed to be shot for example. In contrast Ezra has shot all the cameos they wanted him to which is why WB is affording Ezra more leeway. I don’t really blame Cavill for playing tough with WB but it hasn’t endeared him to the execs and means there’s no one in his corner anymore.

It’s far easier to simply drop him and recast the role, most people wouldn’t care if Cavill departed since his portrayal was hardly beloved. That WB hasn’t done that is because they’re incompetent morons who were initially planning on erasing Superman entirely from the shared universe, but the Discovery merger seems to have changed that.

See I dont have a link or even a source but a few on here were saying the other day that they heard that Affleck will be in other movies. If not that is ok.

I just hope they dont ruin Keaton after all this time.

They’re leaving the door open for Affleck to return one last time in a Crisis movie, but he will not be the Batman of the shared universe going forward. Keaton will be the guy cameoing in Batgirl, Aquaman 2, and any future DC or JL movies.

[Holt]

Not really the opposite at all though?

You were the one who said you’d rather he just be removed from continuity. I’m the one saying the post credit tease says to me they’ve likely reversed course on that.

But why recast him?

They tried to get Cavill back and he said no. Depending on who you believe it was money or creative control, take your pick. The headless Shazam cameo you mentioned was a result of that. Unless his reps have changed their stance there’s no reason to reboot the character out of existence when you could just put someone new in the suit.

[Last Son of Krypton]

"Plan changed" is the old excuse when you run fake news for too long and don't turn out true.

If there was ever a plan to erase SM, James Gunn would've been forced to cut him from the Peacemaker finale like he had to do with Batfleck and Cyborg because they didn't belong to the future of the DCEU post-Flash. WB wouldn't allowed to keep SM if the character (or even an actor) were secure for the future.

The Black Adam sequel being with SM as well the post credit scene were always the plan. Everyone and their mother knows that. I mentioned it like one million of time. It was made explicitly know or teased by The Rock, the producers and others close to the project.

Superman being hidden from test screening doesn't mean jack, as this thing is the norm for a production wanting to avoid these type of leaks too early.

[Holt]

The test screenings for Flash seemingly indicated it and the sources on those like Viewer Anon were fairly reliable. Specifically a scene at the end where Aquaman seems to act like he’s always known Supergirl and is confused when Barry tells him there used to be a Superman instead. That scene got described by a few different sources so I can totally buy it at least was the plan at first, especially with WB’s history of dumbass decisions.

The first look at Sabbac.

[Last Son of Krypton]

The test screenings for Flash seemingly indicated it and the sources on those like Viewer Anon were fairly reliable. Specifically a scene at the end where Aquaman seems to act like he’s always known Supergirl and is confused when Barry tells him there used to be a Superman instead. That scene got described by a few different sources so I can totally buy it at least was the plan at first, especially with WB’s history of dumbass decisions.

This scene was reported in at least 15 different ways. It's useless for this discussion as no one can report it right. I'll stick with what Peacemaker showed, as well as Gunn and The Rock's words. The whole marketing of BA revolves around Adam being the anti-hero SM and that the two will clash. There was never a point when he was supposed to be the anti hero Supergirl, lol.

Let's be realistic and use as reference the words of the people doing these movies as source not of people being confused by the Flash ending and making guesses. Are we supposed to believe that the WB execs that demanded to cut certain characters didn't know the plan? Or The Rock and his production company? They are a little Feige on their own to not know and run for years hyping this BA/SM thing.

The first look at Sabbac.

That's Mephisto!

[Holt]

Given how disorganized they’ve been with their whole universe? Yeah, I can totally see it tbh. There’s very little I’d put past WB/DC regarding this franchise.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Given how disorganized they’ve been with their whole universe? Yeah, I can totally see it tbh. There’s very little I’d put past WB/DC regarding this franchise.

But they are better organized now and make long term plans and connecting more each franchises. The Flash and BA were filmed simultaneously. There is no way they added a set up for a sequel without knowing ****. Both movies were written to have a SM cameo, and going off social media detectives, Cavill started following the BA producer and liking the BA filiming related posts, so he was at least in talks during the filming of both movies. If **** happened at the 11th hour is not something I can pretend to know. We'll see in Oct, when BA is out. You never know if headless SM has a surprise face reveal saved for the theater.

[Holt]

But they are better organized now and make long term plans and connecting more each franchises. The Flash and BA were filmed simultaneously. There is no way they added a set up for a sequel without knowing ****.

That is actually something I could very easily see happening with this studio, actually. Perhaps we'll never know unless that Flash scene's original iteration is released as a deleted extra, but I've no reason to doubt it was in there as described originally.

[Last Son of Krypton]

The timing of this tweet lol https://twitter.com/TheRock/status/1542932925766717440

The Rock himself teasing a Superman's cameo.

That is actually something I could very easily see happening with this studio, actually. Perhaps we'll never know unless that Flash scene's original iteration is released as a deleted extra, but I've no reason to doubt it was in there as described originally.

spoilers:

It's Aquaman being drunk and making a joke about Supergirl using being a man (SM).

end of spoilers It's a joke in a middle credit scene. It's not going to "transgendering" SM going forward.

[Jcogginsa]

There will be an animated crossover with RWBY, Set in the world of the RWBY/Justice League Crossover Comics

[Holt]

spoilers:

It's Aquaman being drunk and making a joke about Supergirl using being a man (SM).

end of spoilers It's a joke in a middle credit scene. It's not going to "transgendering" SM going forward.

Eh? I know. This all started with me saying that's probably not going to be the case. Where we differ is if Superman being removed ever was going to be the plan, which I'm not convinced it wasn't.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Eh? I know. This all started with me saying that's probably not going to be the case. Where we differ is if Superman being removed ever was going to be the plan, which I'm not convinced it wasn't.

Don't believe me but Gunn's words about Peacemaker's finale and The Rock and his production company working on the BA/SM project since ever should tell you that SM wasn't never going to be taken off the table.

Don't use screening leaks as reference, especially for a movie like Flash with an Inception-like of ending that leave the audience with their own theories. Also, at test screenings, they shown unfinished movies, and keep scenes or cameos hidden to avoid early leaks. They aren't the final edit you'll see in theaters. We saw it with The BM and its The Joker cameo.

[Holt]

Don't believe me but Gunn's words about Peacemaker's finale and The Rock and his production company working on the BA/SM project since ever should tell you that SM wasn't never going to be taken off the table.

Don't use screening leaks as reference, especially for a movie like Flash with an Inception-like of ending that leave the audience with their own theories. Also, at test screenings, they shown unfinished movies, and keep scenes or cameos hidden to avoid early leaks. They aren't the final edit you'll see in theaters. We saw it with The BM and its The Joker cameo.

I'm aware that test screenings don't use finished films. That's why I can entirely believe there's an early post-credit scene based on nixed plans that wound up being misleading was attached to Flash.

[Last Son of Krypton]

I'm aware that test screenings don't use finished films. That's why I can entirely believe there's an early post-credit scene based on nixed plans that wound up being misleading was attached to Flash.

I see the "trans joke" mean nothing for the future of the SM's franchise. We see things differently, it's ok. I don't see how there could've ever been such a plan if they have the marketing/hype surrounding BA telling otherwise. This wasn't just The Rock hyping himself, you know. It's also WB marketing.

Supergirl is also a SM's legacy character, you should expect SM in her solo like BM is in Batgirl by default.

If you'll see SM played by an actual actor, you'll change your mind I guess?