DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[Rightoya]

Watching that comparison video; I just don't see what was so great about Snyder's version. It had unnecessary moments, was darker, and confirmed the Snyder-fanatics are simply that.

Is there even anyone outside of the Zac Snyder fandom who thinks even just 1 of his DCEU movies is great?

[WonderLight789]

I agree with you. But, honestly, I don't know if Wonder Woman's feats in the DCEU have actually been all that bad or showcased her in a negative light. I've never really walked away from one of these movies and thought "Diana came off as weak to me."

But, if I'm being honest, even in the comics, Wonder Woman has always been shown as someone who can go toe to toe with Superman, yes, BUT that's really by virtue of the fact that she's a trained Amazon warrior and martial artist. She's always been shown to be in the same strength class as Clark, but he still outclasses her in terms of raw strength. It's the fact that she has such superior skills and training as a fighter that gives her an edge over Clark in an actual match.

Actually. In the comics she is Superman's punching bag 90% of the time. He sis shown too strong for her to handle in most battles. And Her allegedly amazing fighting skills as the best warrior in DC are never relevant in her battles against SM, where he easily trashes her. And they are never relevant in most battles of the last 12 years. As she has almost 0 feats of real fighting skills ironically, and carries a sword while fighting as if she never trained with a sword one day of her life. If shazam and black adam should be considered peers to SM, and their powers come from the same type of source as WW, aka the Gods. Why should Diana be treated differently? You see how the sexist attitude becomes more and more obvious by the minute? There is a double standard here, and it can not be denied.

[Jabare]

So WW is not allowed to even be comparable to SM in DCEU after her movie was a big hit and she is a huge icon. But BA who hasn't proven himself yet and is not even close to be the icon she is, is allowed to be SM equal or above? Is there any reason for this other than sexism?

There's no reason she can't be stronger. And if we just take her first movie, she might have been but the Justice League movie kills that argument. Although she has moments of weakness in the second movie that is due to the wish.

We'd have to ask the writers, producers and head honchos at DC.

You mean this era:



because i very much doubt that.



That might be true, but is also not very impressive, because that was after Wonder Woman got depowered and barring odd bugs bunny showings she just very slowly catched up again to her peers who got crazy poweful in the Silver age.



Just like with Shazam, you will just find less examples of him getting misportrayed because he is male, not part of the trinity, and has less appearances in general.



What general consensus, the general consensus of openly sexist people back then, the general consensus of people who barely read comic books but think Superman is the strongest being in the DC verse, or the general consensus of comic book readers who compare their feats and also know that Shazam is not the equal of Superman and often not even of Wonder Woman in that regard?



Can you name these writers, because i can maybe think of 2 or 3 at best who truly portray her as impressive or proficient in these?



But you are aware that this is just DC completely shitting on the whole core of the character Wonder Woman, yes?



That are 2 of her weakest and worst versions.



You mean when the entire Justice League except Superman gets disrespectful portrayed? Because if we go by these kinds of portrayals, nobody in the Justice League equals the pure might of Batman.



I am very sure you could at some places even make a poll about a not holding back Superman versus Anti Crisis Wonder Woman that Superman wins, but that is just because Superman is generally overrated and Wonder Woman generally underrated with most people at best knowing DCEU, DCAU or Injustice Wonder Woman.



You even mentioned multiple examples, and i could name you specific writers who are well known for that, Superman and Batman should better get kept as far away from Wonder Woman as possible because they are far too often just toxic for other heroes and especially for Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman gests disrespected a lot, especially if Batman and even more so Superman are involved.



Wonder Woman is just the most obvious example, but yeah the almost entire Justice League is just an absolute joke and they are basically the cheerleaders of Superman or going by Zac Snyder's view probably Jesus in the DCEU, and that Shazam gets overshadowed by his own villain just because the Rock is on a ego tip just fits so perfectly to the cursed DCEU.


Well i am very sure the DCEU is dommed anyway, so the Rock's ego trip can at worst or depending on your view at best end it quicker.

I'm aware of Wonder Woman's impressive feats in the 40s, but she also had that ridiculous bondage weakness. Don't get me ranting on how they handled her with the JSA either. I know it was the 40s, but still.

yes Batman is DC's top dog, and I feel he's more then likely to come out on top vs anybody for some reason or another. Superman is number 2. Wonder Woman at times is number 3, and given respect and other times she'll get jumped by another prominent hero.

I know we are talking about Wonder Woman generally, but my original intent was really about the film versions and their effect on portrayals in other mediums. I wasn't clear about that

Will see what happens with the third Wonder Woman movie, but my expectations for Warner are pretty low across the board in generally right now

[WonderLight789]

Sorry, but that's not how that works. Current WW, in the comics, is a DEMI-GODDESS, who later was promoted to full god. In previous iterations, you'd be right, since, in that previous iteration, her strength came from Demeter, which made her STRONGER than Shazam, AND Zeus, for that matter. And btw? By your reasoning, Perseus, Hercules and a number of Zeus' kids should possess immense strength, but only Hercules did, who was later promoted to full godhood as "The God of Strength", a power that Shazam derives his own strength from. So, at the very least, both Shazam and WW are on par, if both were written logically.

But you are definitely wrong about WW's ranking as being "sexist", especially in comparison to Superman's power-set, who derives his energy from the Sun. He'll always be #1, as far as modern comics is concerned.

Sorry but yes. That is how it works. Current WW aka Rebirth WW. Was established to receive powers from athena , Hera, Artemis, Demeter, Hephaestus, Aphrodite and Hermes. Wonder Woman Rebirth run by Ruka issue number 6.

If shazam and WW were to be writen logically. WW has been stated stronger than Hercules and shown as such since 1942. And in current canon she still has the strength of a God above Hercules.

Superman is only above WW because of sexism. as she was created to be his literal equal. But the sexist industry people rather have a male character with Godly powers like ba be equal to SM. Than a female character with Godly powers. Sure sexism had nothing to do with this, lol.

[Rightoya]

Sorry, but that's not how that works. Current WW, in the comics, is a DEMI-GODDESS, who later was promoted to full god.

Are you not aware that the New 52 is over since 2016? Wonder Woman had arguably 2 new or at least changed origins since then, heck this is technically the origin of the current Wonder Woman:

But you are definitely wrong about WW's ranking as being "sexist", especially in comparison to Superman's power-set, who derives his energy from the Sun. He'll always be #1, as far as modern comics is concerned.

Why is the sun preventing that from being sexist, and since when is Superman #1 in modern comics again?

[WonderLight789]

There's no reason she can't be stronger. And if we just take her first movie, she might have been but the Justice League movie kills that argument. Although she has moments of weakness in the second movie that is due to the wish.

We'd have to ask the writers, producers and head honchos at DC.



I'm aware of Wonder Woman's impressive feats in the 40s, but she also had that ridiculous bondage weakness. Don't get me ranting on how they handled her with the JSA either. I know it was the 40s, but still.

yes Batman is DC's top dog, and I feel he's more then likely to come out on top vs anybody for some reason or another. Superman is number 2. Wonder Woman at times is number 3, and given respect and other times she'll get jumped by another prominent hero.

I know we are talking about Wonder Woman generally, but my original intent was really about the film versions and their effect on portrayals in other mediums. I wasn't clear about that

Will see what happens with the third Wonder Woman movie, but my expectations for Warner are pretty low across the board in generally right now

We don't need to ask DC and WB why. We know it is because of sexism. WW proved her worth in 2017. Yet she was treated as fodder next SM. But a character not even 30% as icon, thart hasn't proven his worth yet. Is añready alllowed to be SM equal. While WW can't even put up a decent fight. Sexism.

[Rightoya]

There's no reason she can't be stronger. And if we just take her first movie, she might have been but the Justice League movie kills that argument.

I don't even think that it truly does, because the DCEU is such a mess that they could easily just claim Wonder Woman was depowered in Justice League, she even forgot how to fly and other powers since 1984 and World War 1 after all.

I'm aware of Wonder Woman's impressive feats in the 40s, but she also had that ridiculous bondage weakness. Don't get me ranting on how they handled her with the JSA either. I know it was the 40s, but still.

Is your point that Shazam was stronger than Wonder Woman because he had no specific weakness, because that would make him stronger than Superman too and not his true peer?

yes Batman is DC's top dog, and I feel he's more then likely to come out on top vs anybody for some reason or another. Superman is number 2. Wonder Woman at times is number 3, and given respect and other times she'll get jumped by another prominent hero.

Right, but that is obviously just a silly concept in general, and a sign of DC's extreme incompetence.

I know we are talking about Wonder Woman generally, but my original intent was really about the film versions and their effect on portrayals in other mediums. I wasn't clear about that

Fair, her terrible DCEU portrayal will surely not help Wonder Woman, and i don't think his own portrayal or the Rock's ego trip will help Shazam either.

Will see what happens with the third Wonder Woman movie, but my expectations for Warner are pretty low across the board in generally right now

Well my expectations are very low too.

[Rightoya]

I don't know if Wonder Woman's feats in the DCEU have actually been all that bad or showcased her in a negative light.

That shouldn't even be a question.

I've never really walked away from one of these movies and thought "Diana came off as weak to me."

How looked the Justice League in Justice League in comparison to Superman to you?

But, if I'm being honest, even in the comics, Wonder Woman has always been shown as someone who can go toe to toe with Superman, yes, BUT that's really by virtue of the fact that she's a trained Amazon warrior and martial artist. She's always been shown to be in the same strength class as Clark, but he still outclasses her in terms of raw strength. It's the fact that she has such superior skills and training as a fighter that gives her an edge over Clark in an actual match.

Superman barring fringe cases never outclassed Wonder Woman even remotely as much in strength in canon comics from not around the Silver age as in the DCEU and it was in the comics still often questionable enough already, let alone in speed, and they are clearly not in the same class in any stat in the DCEU.

[krazijoe]

We don't need to ask DC and WB why. We know it is because of sexism. WW proved her worth in 2017. Yet she was treated as fodder next SM. But a character not even 30% as icon, thart hasn't proven his worth yet. Is añready alllowed to be SM equal. While WW can't even put up a decent fight. Sexism.

Sounds like you are trying to fit it into your narrative. We don't know if she is stronger than BA or Supes in the DCEU. When she did fight against Supes he was charged up but based on that, yeah he probably is stronger. BA? No idea, Shazam, no idea, anyone else, no idea.

[Jabare]

Is your point that Shazam was stronger than Wonder Woman because he had no specific weakness, because that would make him stronger than Superman too and not his true peer?

That plays a role but I take an average of showings usually. Not just the highest feat or greatest feat.

Get a time machine and talk to me 15 or 20 years ago and I'd make an argument for why Captain Marvel should be stronger than Superman. And why he was a more appealing character and a superior character.

The current me can't make that argument.

[80sbaby]

Sounds like you are trying to fit it into your narrative. We don't know if she is stronger than BA or Supes in the DCEU. When she did fight against Supes he was charged up but based on that, yeah he probably is stronger. BA? No idea, Shazam, no idea, anyone else, no idea.

Superman wasn't charged up when they fought. He had just been resurrected. He flat out overpowered her with one arm.

[Rightoya]

That plays a role but I take an average of showings usually. Not just the highest feat or greatest feat.

By average showings of the 1940s Wonder Woman and Superman are basically either unstoppable breakers of all rules of physics or in danger of thugs, i don't think this concept works for a time where as powerful as the story needs was not just a smartass phrase.

Get a time machine and talk to me 15 or 20 years ago and I'd make an argument for why Captain Marvel should be stronger than Superman. And why he was a more appealing character and a superior character.

The current me can't make that argument.

Well to be fair, i don't think Zac Snyder's Jesus Superman or anything like that is truly appaeling or a good character, he just manages to make other characters look bad which kind of makes him an even worse character.

[mace11]

Okay, and...what's the point of that statement? That's like me saying "if it rains, it'll be wet outside." Yeah, it would likely have been higher, but can we really say it would have been a "fresh" score, given the word of mouth around that show being so negative?



Okay, but given that this is what you said in your original post...

There is a critic score and average rating right there but you decided to use the audience scores only to back up your views.
The point is it was heavily review bombed so the audience score for she-hulk can't be use to say it was a bad show or certain you tube channels.
Once something is reviewed bombed it is even more less legitimate or not legitimate since you mention audience scores and certain you-channel to say it's bad.

...wouldn't the fact that Eternals got such a bad RT critic score contradict that?

Spinning i see.
Eternals is a early phase 4 movie, not recent and if you want to say phase 4 you have to include shows and movies.
After eternals no phase 4 projects from critics have been rotten,so clearly i am going by averages and not just critic scores but audience scores.
Even the reviewed bombed ones and i am including the shows.
If you compare the top highest RT scores to the lowest from phase 1 and 2 and 3,phase 4 on average has higher scores then any past phase.

So getting back to the original talk you so clearly want to remind me of.
Quality has not dropped if are you talking about the average critic,audiences and more important from my point of view.
Now let's move ON and agree to disagree.
Thanks.

[Castling]

Superman wasn't charged up when they fought. He had just been resurrected. He flat out overpowered her with one arm.

Well, thanks to Snyder, Diana is just Sword Woman as opposed to the Class A1 superhero she's supposed to be.

[80sbaby]

Well, thanks to Snyder, Diana is just Sword Woman as opposed to the Class A1 superhero she's supposed to be.

Well that's not just Snyder's fault. Too many writers downplay the advantage Diana's martial skills should give her. It's not even about physical strength. She can be weaker than him and should still be capable of dislocating his joints, as an example.