DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[Frontier]

Agreed, though I'd say that the current Birds of Prey already was drastically altered compared to the original Birds of Prey. The shift from Oracle to Batgirl radically changed both the team dynamics and the type of stories that were told.

Yeah, I agree...especially with how they tried to replace Oracle, but then tried to make Batgirl as Oracle work, and it just didn't feel the same .

And it was also kind of rough seeing them try to fit Grayson Helena into Post-Crisis Huntress' slot.

[Jim Kelly]

Nothing against Jurnee Smollett-Bell, but I feel like WB should be casting a big name or a rising star to play the Black Canary. She's one of the most important DC heroines and deserves her own franchise, yet she's always being downgraded to supporting roles on screen. It would have been better if Smollett-Bell was playing a different character that takes the Black Canary codename, rather than Dinah Lance herself, so a bigger star could step into the role later.

[Frontier]

Nothing against Jurnee Smollett-Bell, but I feel like WB should be casting a big name or a rising star to play the Black Canary. She's one of the most important DC heroines and deserves her own franchise, yet she's always being downgraded to supporting roles on screen. It would have been better if Smollett-Bell was playing a different character that takes the Black Canary codename, rather than Dinah Lance herself, so a bigger star could step into the role later.

Especially when Black Canary's live-action record is so spotty...

[Osiris-Rex]

You realize there's an incredibly high chance the lesson WB will take if the movie bombs is that the franchise and/or characters aren't worth $hit and there won't be a SS styled reboot? That if it fails, we won't get another BoP movie in our lifetimes? Do you still want it to bomb with that more probable outcome just for the slim hope of a reboot that doesn't include Harley? Especially when we know nothing about the quality of the film itself? What if it is a good movie despite the differences from the comics? Should it still bomb then?

Look how long it took to get another live action version of Birds of Prey after the Birds of Prey TV show flopped and was cancelled after one season.

[Agent Z]

Nothing against Jurnee Smollett-Bell, but I feel like WB should be casting a big name or a rising star to play the Black Canary. She's one of the most important DC heroines and deserves her own franchise, yet she's always being downgraded to supporting roles on screen. It would have been better if Smollett-Bell was playing a different character that takes the Black Canary codename, rather than Dinah Lance herself, so a bigger star could step into the role later.

Black Canary has been a supporting character or part of an ensemble for the majority of her existence. I know she's a fan favorite but let's not act like she's Wonder Woman who actually has held a solo series since her inception.

And no, they don't need a big name or rising star to play BC.

Especially when Black Canary's live-action record is so spotty...

Why should Smollett-Bell lose out on a role just because of other adaptations' mistakes with Black Canary?

[SiegePerilous02]

If we're talking about the heroes (which you certainly weren't since you said comics), even that isn't always the case as seen with Guardians of the Galaxy.

"The spirit of the comics" isn't always consistent and repeatedly changes over time. And it certainly isn't always needed for the films. Most people going to see BOP wouldn't have heard of or cared about the comics.

Comics to me is short hand for the comic version since this is a thread about movies. And so? There will always be exceptions to the rule and it doesn't really matter when they go off script when it's done really well. The DCEU has tried to do their own thing and I think it's been crap.

The difference between the Guardians and Iron-Man vs. the big name DC heroes is that the audience has no pre-conceived notions of them to be challenged. For the majority, this is their introduction. Not so for Superman and Batman. They have firm ideas of what they expect from them, and they want it in a good movie. The DCEU failed with those two after MOS (and even that was divisive), whereas WW, Aquaman and Shazam nailed the spirit enough to please the casuals, critics and most of the comics fans while still doing a bit of their own thing. As they have to do as adaptations, a balance has to be struck.

BOP could turn out well, but the studio has not done enough to earn full trust again. They're getting better, but this is still sending up some red flags. How could a BOP film with Harley at the front and no Barbara Gordon NOT cause some people to be nervous?

[Frontier]

Black Canary has been a supporting character or part of an ensemble for the majority of her existence. I know she's a fan favorite but let's not act like she's Wonder Woman who actually has held a solo series since her inception.

She's not Wonder Woman, but as far as DC female heroes go I think she's pretty popular and well-known.

Why should Smollett-Bell lose out on a role just because of other adaptations' mistakes with Black Canary?

That wasn't me criticizing Smollet-Bell, just that Black Canary doesn't have the best track record in live-action adaptions and deserves to be done justice .

[Stromberg]

Nothing against Jurnee Smollett-Bell, but I feel like WB should be casting a big name or a rising star to play the Black Canary. She's one of the most important DC heroines and deserves her own franchise, yet she's always being downgraded to supporting roles on screen. It would have been better if Smollett-Bell was playing a different character that takes the Black Canary codename, rather than Dinah Lance herself, so a bigger star could step into the role later.

She's probably at least as well known as Henry Cavill, Gal Gadot, Jason Momoa, Ray Fisher and Ezra Miller were when they were cast and probably moreso in a few of those cases so it doesn't bother me.
The casting did surprise me at first but the thing that has sold me is that she is beautiful but she has a friendly, approachable look and she can be sassy...all Dinah traits.
I think she's gonna be a great Black Canary...again, as long as they get the character right in the script.

[Jokerz79]

Black Canary has been a supporting character or part of an ensemble for the majority of her existence. I know she's a fan favorite but let's not act like she's Wonder Woman who actually has held a solo series since her inception.

And no, they don't need a big name or rising star to play BC.




Why should Smollett-Bell lose out on a role just because of other adaptations' mistakes with Black Canary?

I don't mind the actress playing her but dismissing Black Canary bothers me she is a Golden Age hero and member of both the Justice Society of America and Justice League a long time supporting character in Green Arrow books and while not having their names in the title Birds of Prey was her and Barbara's book and if Black Adam can get one of the biggest stars on Earth right now it wouldn't be uncalled for Black Canary to get the same.

[Last Son of Krypton]

James Gunn's 'The Suicide Squad' Casts 'Ant-Man' Actor David Dastmalchian as Polka-Dot Man (Exclusive): https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...ot-man-1205280

Also, from Gunn Instagram:



https://www.instagram.com/p/Bw2QaHKgLgT/

[Agent Z]

The difference between the Guardians and Iron-Man vs. the big name DC heroes is that the audience has no pre-conceived notions of them to be challenged. For the majority, this is their introduction. Not so for Superman and Batman. They have firm ideas of what they expect from them, and they want it in a good movie. The DCEU failed with those two after MOS (and even that was divisive), whereas WW, Aquaman and Shazam nailed the spirit enough to please the casuals, critics and most of the comics fans while still doing a bit of their own thing. As they have to do as adaptations, a balance has to be struck.

BOP could turn out well, but the studio has not done enough to earn full trust again. They're getting better, but this is still sending up some red flags. How could a BOP film with Harley at the front and no Barbara Gordon NOT cause some people to be nervous?

Because we've already seen people site stuff like Smollet-Bell's race as one of those red flags and the fact that almost every live action DC product as of late has been getting this type of pre-release backlash is getting old, regardless of what the final product turns out like. We had people declaring Aquaman and WW DOA and insisting that every DC movie has been a flop because it didn't make all the Avengers Money. Hell, we get people calling for these movies to fail just because they don't match the vision of them they have in their head.

And this also taking into account that several of Barbara's fans have been adamant that they saw BoP as making Barbara stale but now they suddenly realize how important she is to the team? Especially when Cass is on this movie's line up? I don't think it's a coincidence and much of this comes across bad faith acting on many's parts here.

I mean really, isn't the constant stream of negativity in this thread just a little bit tiring for you guys?

[Agent Z]

I don't mind the actress playing her but dismissing Black Canary bothers me she is a Golden Age hero and member of both the Justice Society of America and Justice League a long time supporting character in Green Arrow books and while not having their names in the title Birds of Prey was her and Barbara's book and if Black Adam can get one of the biggest stars on Earth right now it wouldn't be uncalled for Black Canary to get the same.

I'm not dismissing her, I'm stating facts.

The JSA hasn't mattered to anyone outside of a very niche group of comic fans in more than a century and her golden age origins mean nothing to a modern audience. Hell, the Golden Age BC isn't even the one that is most well known. Her time in the JL is often over shadowed by WW and frankly I'm not too sure her presence in Green Arrow books have done her much good overall.

Finally, I don't see why anyone thinks having a big name play her will automatically help when Wonder Woman and Aquaman didn't need those and that is no guarantee of success.

[Castling]

The difference between the Guardians and Iron-Man vs. the big name DC heroes is that the audience has no pre-conceived notions of them to be challenged. For the majority, this is their introduction. Not so for Superman and Batman. They have firm ideas of what they expect from them, and they want it in a good movie. The DCEU failed with those two after MOS (and even that was divisive), whereas WW, Aquaman and Shazam nailed the spirit enough to please the casuals, critics and most of the comics fans while still doing a bit of their own thing. As they have to do as adaptations, a balance has to be struck.

BOP could turn out well, but the studio has not done enough to earn full trust again. They're getting better, but this is still sending up some red flags. How could a BOP film with Harley at the front and no Barbara Gordon NOT cause some people to be nervous?

If you operate under the notion that the Birds of Prey are some wildly popular franchise with the general audience, you'd be mistaken. Like the Guardians, there are fervent fans of the comics, but the general audience really couldn't tell you the first thing about the Birds (as a team or their individual members). They're not going to care that Barbara Gordon isn't there. They wouldn't care even if it's announced that she is there. That's why Harley Quinn (who the general audience knows) is there. She's the brand, and hopefully the Birds can ride Harley's popularity to new-found star status.

Note: competing Harley Quinn's on TV shows, i.e. Gotham or Arrowverse, haven't been able to hold a candle to the torch that is Margot Robbie's Harley. The closest competitor would be the Harley from the video games (Arkham, Injustice).

[Frontier]

James Gunn's 'The Suicide Squad' Casts 'Ant-Man' Actor David Dastmalchian as Polka-Dot Man (Exclusive): https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...ot-man-1205280

Also, from Gunn Instagram:



https://www.instagram.com/p/Bw2QaHKgLgT/

Ah, I thought he was going to be reprising Abra Kadabra

[SiegePerilous02]

Because we've already seen people site stuff like Smollet-Bell's race as one of those red flags and the fact that almost every live action DC product as of late has been getting this type of pre-release backlash is getting old, regardless of what the final product turns out like. We had people declaring Aquaman and WW DOA and insisting that every DC movie has been a flop because it didn't make all the Avengers Money. Hell, we get people calling for these movies to fail just because they don't match the vision of them they have in their head.


And this also taking into account that several of Barbara's fans have been adamant that they saw BoP as making Barbara stale but now they suddenly realize how important she is to the team? Especially when Cass is on this movie's line up? I don't think it's a coincidence and much of this comes across bad faith acting on many's parts here.

I mean really, isn't the constant stream of negativity in this thread just a little bit tiring for you guys?

Where are these Barbara Gordon fans who said the BOP was making her stale, and are they actually that numerous to warrant paying attention to them? And are they all the same people?

Some of the hyperbole is obnoxious, as films like WW, Aquaman and Shazam didn't deserve any of it. But dismissing all the negative criticism as being in the same league is sort of fighting hyperbole with hyperbole. Those who are wary of how BOP will turn out are not necessarily going to speak ill of WW, Aquaman and Shazam. Byrd even said in their post that those were good, so it's not constant negativity.

The studio is not consistent though, and this is a BOP movie with a non-BOP character at the forefront, lack of the actual lead, and details like Helena Bertinelli being a mob enforcer (or did that one change). We can look forward to WW84, Aquaman 2 and Shazam 2 and be allowed to voice concerns with how BOP appears to be shaping out to be.

If you operate under the notion that the Birds of Prey are some wildly popular franchise with the general audience, you'd be mistaken. Like the Guardians, there are fervent fans of the comics, but the general audience really couldn't tell you the first thing about the Birds (as a team or their individual members). They're not going to care that Barbara Gordon isn't there. They wouldn't care even if it's announced that she is there. That's why Harley Quinn (who the general audience knows) is there. She's the brand, and hopefully the Birds can ride Harley's popularity to new-found star status..

I didn't say they were a wildly popular franchise, just that the fans of the property have a right to be concerned if some of the details are changed. Best case is changes are made but you still end up with a good movie, worst case is they change stuff, give most of the focus to Harley, and it still sucks.

And if Harley is the brand, why not just name it a Harley movie with some of these other characters that you can spin off into a new film? You'd get the same result without fans wondering why a BOP movie isn't focused on the BOP.