DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[jetengine]

Name recognition and popularity of the characters is important, but those things only go so far. We saw this happen before; Batman v. Superman had one of the highest opening weekends of all time, yet it sank like a rock in its second weekend and ultimately fell below studio expectations because it had negative word of mouth that ended up discouraging repeat viewing. And then the sequel outright tanked despite the popularity of its characters and Wonder Woman having had her own hit movie by that point. By contrast, Joker has had absolutely incredible repeat viewing because of stellar word of mouth, and Joaquin Phoenix's performance absolutely contributed to that.

It is in much the same way Robert Downey Jr. is not a huge box office draw on his own (his last non-Marvel movie flopped), yet his performance absolutely contributed to the character of Iron Man becoming so popular among audiences. People genuinely connected with Joker as a film, and Phoenix's performance is a big part of that.

This.

If all we had was the name and "Youll shoot up the cinema" ads followed by someone like Jai Courtney acting on screen it would have made a modest success but nothing like the dales its doing now, especially considering the frankly mixed reveiws its getting.

[Agent Z]

This.

If all we had was the name and "Youll shoot up the cinema" ads followed by someone like Jai Courtney acting on screen it would have made a modest success but nothing like the dales its doing now, especially considering the frankly mixed reveiws its getting.

The reviews are positive for the most part.

[jetengine]

The reviews are positive for the most part.

69% Critical review would say otherwise on RT

[Osiris-Rex]

69% Critical review would say otherwise on RT

All kinds of problems with RT. First they recently allowed 600 new critics to give their score. So who knows what sort of vetting process was used to determine if these new critics are even qualified to judge a movie.
Second, a lot of the negative reviews didn't judge the movie on its merits, but rather on the critics own political leanings. And 69% is still considered Fresh. So yes, the reviews are mostly positive.

[jetengine]

All kinds of problems with RT. First they recently allowed 600 new critics to give their score. So who knows what sort of vetting process was used to determine if these new critics are even qualified to judge a movie.
Second, a lot of the negative reviews didn't judge the movie on its merits, but rather on the critics own political leanings. And 69% is still considered Fresh. So yes, the reviews are mostly positive.

Everything is political, the film is political. Stop picking and choosing because something you like is being criticised.

[WillieMorgan]

Everything is political, the film is political. Stop picking and choosing because something you like is being criticised.

Yeah? Whilst I agree that Joker can easily be placed into a current political context, perhaps you'd like to explain the political narrative behind, say, Sonic The Hedgehog (picked out at random)?

If you don't think a good number of the 'professional' critics on RT didn't approach the film with already fully formed and predisposed biases against it then that's extremely myopic on your part. It didn't suit their narrative so the knives were out. Many of them were quite open about it. I'd tell you to stop being so biased yourself but ordering people around is actually against CBR rules, or most certainly frowned upon. Perhaps you were unaware of that.

I finally got around to seeing Joker yesterday and it was pretty good. Luckily for everyone else in the theatre I managed to keep my inner incel at bay. Phew .

[jetengine]

Yeah? Whilst I agree that Joker can easily be placed into a current political context, perhaps you'd like to explain the political narrative behind, say, Sonic The Hedgehog (picked out at random)?

If you don't think a good number of the 'professional' critics on RT didn't approach the film with already fully formed and predisposed biases against it then that's extremely myopic on your part. It didn't suit their narrative so the knives were out. Many of them were quite open about it. I'd tell you to stop being so biased yourself but ordering people around is actually against CBR rules, or most certainly frowned upon. Perhaps you were unaware of that.

I finally got around to seeing Joker yesterday and it was pretty good. Luckily for everyone else in the theatre I managed to keep my inner incel at bay. Phew .

As in the games ? Easy.

Eggman espouses corporate eco destruction. Dude literally takes animals from their happy lives and turns them into deathbots for his own use His levels are often rife with excess pollution or fill other levels. Add in his authoritarian stance (he claims to want to create a technocracy but we never see what he constitutes as peers so....) and youve got a villain who will take whatever he wants for his own personal gain but especially exploiting natural resources.

Sonic on the otherhand opposes this, both as a pro eco character (save the animals, restore the status quo of a seemingly ok earth) and with something of a libertarian streak since his independence (ability to run and go anywhere) is a big deal to him. We rarely see Sonics home andhe often only intervenes when something effects him.

[WillieMorgan]

As in the games ? Easy.

Eggman espouses corporate eco destruction. Dude literally takes animals from their happy lives and turns them into deathbots for his own use His levels are often rife with excess pollution or fill other levels. Add in his authoritarian stance (he claims to want to create a technocracy but we never see what he constitutes as peers so....) and youve got a villain who will take whatever he wants for his own personal gain but especially exploiting natural resources.

Sonic on the otherhand opposes this, both as a pro eco character (save the animals, restore the status quo of a seemingly ok earth) and with something of a libertarian streak since his independence (ability to run and go anywhere) is a big deal to him. We rarely see Sonics home andhe often only intervenes when something effects him.

That's absolute gold. Thank you very much.

You've kind of got me there. I'm sure that was the driving force at the forefront of Sonic Team's minds when they were putting those early games together. I'm sure that the millions of gamers who played those old Megadrive/Genesis games took that message on board as they were zooming through those levels collecting rings and avoiding spikes. I mean, why wouldn't they? Anyone would think they just wanted to play a good videogame.

I don't want to derail the thread but will ask for just one more example. Peppa Pig. Obviously Peppa Pig is a children's show and I doubt that either of us are too clued up on it. When you're obsessively reaching to try and make a point though I'm sure you'll come up with something.

[jetengine]

That's absolute gold. Thank you very much.

You've kind of got me there. I'm sure that was the driving force at the forefront of Sonic Team's minds when they were putting those early games together. I'm sure that the millions of gamers who played those old Megadrive/Genesis games took that message on board as they were zooming through those levels collecting rings and avoiding spikes. I mean, why wouldn't they? Anyone would think they just wanted to play a good videogame.

I don't want to derail the thread but will ask for just one more example. Peppa Pig. Obviously Peppa Pig is a children's show and I doubt that either of us are too clued up on it. When you're obsessively reaching to try and make a point though I'm sure you'll come up with something.

Im reaching so much when the guys who created Sonic even mention they had environmentalism in mind during his creation.

Just because your head is in the sand doesnt mean its not there.

[Thomas Crown]

If the takeaway WB gets from this is all their movies need to be dark again, rather than ya know the tone fitting the character, they deserve whatever catastrophe they inevitably bring upon themselves.

Actually, the biggest takeaway WB should get from this is:

1- Don't try to be like the MCU.
2- Let the directors do their work.
3- Don't listen to bloggers and haters.

When they did exactly the opposite of this...we got "Josstice League". Hopefully, this still can be corrected.

[WillieMorgan]

Im reaching so much when the guys who created Sonic even mention they had environmentalism in mind during his creation.

Just because your head is in the sand doesnt mean its not there.

To anyone possibly thinking of clicking on that link hoping to see some sort of in-depth analysis of the political machinations behind the creation of Sonic The Hedgehog please don't bother. I'll copy and paste the entire related content right now:

"The team also drew influence from early ‘90s trends, including a boom in environmental awareness and eco-friendly attitudes. The original Sonic, with its cool furry mascot and friendly woodland creatures battling robots, was based on the idea of “nature” versus “environmental development.”

“It was an era where we began to think about our environment more,” Yashuahara said. “That idea was rooted into [Sonic].”

That is literally it. Somehow we've gone from that to Sonic being the world's first libertarian hedgehog! And apparently I'm the one with my head in the sand.

I'm done with this now as it will derail the thread. My final point on this will be that everything is political if you are willing to jump through more hoops than Sonic ever did to find it.

[skyvolt2000]

I don't want to derail the thread but will ask for just one more example. Peppa Pig. Obviously Peppa Pig is a children's show and I doubt that either of us are too clued up on it. When you're obsessively reaching to try and make a point though I'm sure you'll come up with something.

To some folks the politics in that would be a kid's show showing a family of two married parents and their kids. When in reality it's just a kid's show.

Generally most stuff to people is just a movie or show or a game.

No normal person is going to make 40+ hours of youtube videos attacking Cap Marvel.
No normal person is going to make 20+ hours worth of youtube videos going off on Star Wars Last Jedi .
No normal person is going to make 10+ hours worth of videos going off on Ryan Coolger and making person attacks on his family over Black Panther.
No normal person is going to rally folks to boycott 20 books at Marvel because they starred POC, women & LGBTQ.
No normal person is going to say Joker is an attack on black women.

Yet we saw all of that. Because they don't like it and since "diversity" is a hot button topic that fuels youtube revenue and prays on the weak-we see it.

Normal folks are not doing that.

[Holt]

Don't listen to bloggers and haters.

"Bloggers and haters" wouldn't have meant anything to them had it not been for those poor legs I mentioned. Hence picking a tone and creative team that suits the specific character better than the latter. Which is why they've had tremendous success recently with Aquaman and Joker.

[WillieMorgan]

To some folks the politics in that would be a kid's show showing a family of two married parents and their kids. When in reality it's just a kid's show.

Generally most stuff to people is just a movie or show or a game.

No normal person is going to make 40+ hours of youtube videos attacking Cap Marvel.
No normal person is going to make 20+ hours worth of youtube videos going off on Star Wars Last Jedi .
No normal person is going to make 10+ hours worth of videos going off on Ryan Coolger and making person attacks on his family over Black Panther.
No normal person is going to rally folks to boycott 20 books at Marvel because they starred POC, women & LGBTQ.
No normal person is going to say Joker is an attack on black women.

Yet we saw all of that. Because they don't like it and since "diversity" is a hot button topic that fuels youtube revenue and prays on the weak-we see it.

Normal folks are not doing that.

I can't comment on the list that you've included there but it does sound like the sort of entitled nonsense that sections of fandom are capable of. Like you say, normal people aren't wired up that way and just evaluate entertainment on it's respective merits rather than constantly looking to score cheap political points. And most of us are 'normal' in that regard.

There's even more proof of that yet again this weekend as Joker soars to 849 million worldwide. It's profitability must be through the roof.

[Johnny]

Everything is political, the film is political. Stop picking and choosing because something you like is being criticised.

You mean to tell me The Care Bears was political? My childhood is ruined.