DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[Frontier]

[QUOTE=Elmo;4828565]there never was the "DCEU" was never an official term, and all we ever knew was that Snyder's films followed a narrative that some other one-off films may or may not be connected to. so again, there was never a DCEU. the way it is now is how they always envisioned it.[/QUOTE[
I think the standalone nature became more pronounced after the failure of Synder's attempt at starting a DC Cinematic Universe.

I don't think there's any evidence out there that they ever were concerned about that.

I think they were concerned about it at the point where they were putting a bunch of character cameos in BvS to set-up characters with planned solo movies, but that didn't take off.

[Holt]

Can't wait.

[Frontier]

The costume looks so gorgeous in color .

[Ascended]

I don't think there's any evidence out there that they ever were concerned about that.

All the camoes in BvS? The fact we got "Batman v Superman" instead of Man of Steel 2? JL? Referencing Superman's death in Squad?

Come on man, obviously they were very intent on building a shared universe at first.

[Last Son of Krypton]

All the camoes in BvS? The fact we got "Batman v Superman" instead of Man of Steel 2? JL? Referencing Superman's death in Squad?

Come on man, obviously they were very intent on building a shared universe at first.

Suicide Squad was also set to include Steppenwolf and parademons as the main villains till a late change of plans.

[Elmo]

All the camoes in BvS? The fact we got "Batman v Superman" instead of Man of Steel 2? JL? Referencing Superman's death in Squad?

Come on man, obviously they were very intent on building a shared universe at first.

Again, Snyder’s narrative, not a shared universe. Not all of the planned out films conformed to that. Comments by Geoff Johns, Charles Roven, Diane Nelson all contradict what you’re saying right now. I’ve talked about it extensively in this thread; the plan was always to simply make DC movies, there was no contingency for them to be connected to one another even though some were connected.

[Elmo]

Just because they were making inter connected superhero movies does not mean they were attempting to build a universe. It’s just not true. The producers always acknowledged there were different styles, tones, universes that they could explore without having any continuity. They said that in the beginning!!!!

[SiegePerilous02]

Again, Snyder’s narrative, not a shared universe. Not all of the planned out films conformed to that. Comments by Geoff Johns, Charles Roven, Diane Nelson all contradict what you’re saying right now. I’ve talked about it extensively in this thread; the plan was always to simply make DC movies, there was no contingency for them to be connected to one another even though some were connected.

Can we really take their word for it and believe it's not (on some level) some form of retroactive damage control?
Because BvS especially is pretty transparent in wanting to set up other films, the big offender being Wonder Woman sitting at a laptop and looking at everyone's logos while her theme music screams at us from the background. That wasn't JUST a set up for JL, especially since the photo of her, Steve and the Oddfellows played a part in her movie.

Of COURSE they were attempting the build a universe. 4-5 whole films attempting to do it is all the evidence we need.

[Pinsir]

Alright, I just got back from watching BoP which I spontaneously chose to watch and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Here are some basic thoughts;

• It has a sort of Pulp Fiction feel to it, as parts of the film are shown out of order. I loved this element to it as I enjoyed placing each piece together. If thinking isn't something you're not interested in, then yeah, don't see the film.
• The characters are genuinely fantastic. I actually don't care at all for Harlequin the character, which is why I didn't really care about seeing this film, but I did like her in this. Cassandra Cain and Renee Montoya are the stand outs for me and they received the most screen time after HQ. Huntress was adorable and the actress who plays Black Canary can clearly act, though I think the character could have been fleshed out more. Ewan Mcgregor can do no wrong, PT > OT >>>>> ST.
• This film doesn't have much in terms of spectacle. Superhero films tend to have have fairly extravagant actions scenes and though the fight scenes in this film are good, the final one just doesn't have the same oompf as traditional cbms. The film is more interested in its characters.
• If you are in any way inclined towards incel philosophy, question whether giving women the right to vote led to the downfall of Western civilization or use the term 'femoid' unironically, you will hate this film. None of the women in film are pure 'waifus' they drink, curse and do drugs.
• There are several scenes in this film where MEN attempt to rape HQ. It's surprising to see the subject dealt with and I think it does make the film feel more visceral. The same is true for how the film depicts violence against women. If you are going to have female action stars, when they take a hit they should be hurt. Yes, no one likes seeing women get hurt, but I think its necessary for any female action protagonist.
• I think I only have four complaints; 1) I think Black Canary's meta-abilities could have been excised from the film 2) The way Black Mask learns about Black Canary being a snitch is because she left her phone on... 3) There is a point in the film where Black Mask calls the girls bitches and I think it would have been more in character for him to say the C-word instead 4) There may have been a few times where a character was aware of a fact that we the audience knew, but there was no reason for the character to know at the time.


For me personally, this was a good experience and I like this film. I'm glad its part of the DCEU.

[Frontier]

Can we really take their word for it and believe it's not (on some level) some form of retroactive damage control?
Because BvS especially is pretty transparent in wanting to set up other films, the big offender being Wonder Woman sitting at a laptop and looking at everyone's logos while her theme music screams at us from the background. That wasn't JUST a set up for JL, especially since the photo of her, Steve and the Oddfellows played a part in her movie.

Of COURSE they were attempting the build a universe. 4-5 whole films attempting to do it is all the evidence we need.

I also don't think they would've had the sequel to Man of Steel get rushed into a team-up movie if they weren't really betting on crafting a cinematic universe on par with Marvel.

[Elmo]

Can we really take their word for it and believe it's not (on some level) some form of retroactive damage control?
Because BvS especially is pretty transparent in wanting to set up other films, the big offender being Wonder Woman sitting at a laptop and looking at everyone's logos while her theme music screams at us from the background. That wasn't JUST a set up for JL, especially since the photo of her, Steve and the Oddfellows played a part in her movie.

Of COURSE they were attempting the build a universe. 4-5 whole films attempting to do it is all the evidence we need.

They were never committed to it though, it was all just part of the narrative that Snyder drew out on the wall in his office. They were always planning on doing films that weren’t necessarily connected and different imprints— the other films were fleshing out the specific story Zack Snyder was telling.
I would argue that the email scene was simply promotion versus “look at how expansive our universe is.” It was promoting the direct sequel, Justice League, and Wonder Woman which was in production.
They were introducing characters therefore introducing their properties. There was never a contingent that Wonder Woman or Suicide Squad had to follow Snyder’s continuity. That’s what they did, but that was never the point. They wanted to get these characters on screen. So yes, you can say they were trying to get on par with Marvel, but Marvel managed to get loads of their big names and lesser known in big budget films with whopping success, all within the span of a few years. people always focus on the universe part, and that Marvel’s greatest success was the connectivity of the films, and less so on the amount of material they have adapted or had adapted by the time Man of Steel had come out. DC really just wanted to put their players in the field, that’s all it was. The dozens of times they said “hey guys, we don’t care about continuity to be honest, we just love DC” sell me on this fact.

[Robotman]

Article about how BoP could still be a box office win for DC/WB

https://www.businessinsider.com/bird...ice-win-2020-2

With good word of mouth it could easily end up being profitable. The budget was relatively small at $86 mil, which is far less than most super hero flicks.

It also points out some huge mistakes that were made with the advertising. Also how the title and design hurt the film.

“The only recognizable aspect of "Birds of Prey" for general moviegoers was that it appeared to be a spinoff of "Suicide Squad." But while that movie opened with $133 million domestically, it didn't leave a great impression with audiences.“

Comic-book journalist Oliver Sava tweeted on Sunday, "I have talked to so many people who are writing ['Birds of Prey'] off because ['Suicide Squad'] was such a massive piece of s---."

At the end of the day I’d much rather have an outcome like Shazam (and hopefully BoP), where it’s loved by critics and fans even though it didn’t break box office records. Movies like BvS and Suicide Squad made a lot of money but did lasting damage to the brand.

[SiegePerilous02]

They were never committed to it though, it was all just part of the narrative that Snyder drew out on the wall in his office. They were always planning on doing films that weren’t necessarily connected and different imprints— the other films were fleshing out the specific story Zack Snyder was telling.
I would argue that the email scene was simply promotion versus “look at how expansive our universe is.” It was promoting the direct sequel, Justice League, and Wonder Woman which was in production.
They were introducing characters therefore introducing their properties. There was never a contingent that Wonder Woman or Suicide Squad had to follow Snyder’s continuity. That’s what they did, but that was never the point. They wanted to get these characters on screen. So yes, you can say they were trying to get on par with Marvel, but Marvel managed to get loads of their big names and lesser known in big budget films with whopping success, all within the span of a few years. people always focus on the universe part, and that Marvel’s greatest success was the connectivity of the films, and less so on the amount of material they have adapted or had adapted by the time Man of Steel had come out. DC really just wanted to put their players in the field, that’s all it was. The dozens of times they said “hey guys, we don’t care about continuity to be honest, we just love DC” sell me on this fact.

Yeah sorry, I can't buy any of that. You can't say the email scene was simply promotion while also saying things weren't going to necessarily be connected. It was not only promoting a direct sequel, it was promoting Diana's solo film. If it as unrelated to Snyder's story, why was he given a story credit for WW and why were things set up in BvS that were followed up in Wonder Woman? Why did Batfleck and Erza's Flash cameo in Suicide Squad and why did that film reference Superman's death?

This whole "we don't care about continuity, everything is going to be independent" stuff really only came about after WW and Aquaman were their only real all around successes and the Synder stuff was a failed experiment. Before that, they were transparent about trying to tush into a shared Marvel-style universe. If they were always planning on slowing down and doing more stand alone films after that, they never got to it so we can't know for sure.

At the end of the day I’d much rather have an outcome like Shazam (and hopefully BoP), where it’s loved by critics and fans even though it didn’t break box office records. Movies like BvS and Suicide Squad made a lot of money but did lasting damage to the brand.

Yeah, I would like this too. At least Shazam was legitimately good and not embarrassing. Hopefully BOP does make a turn around

[Nite-Wing]

Good box office is nice but ultimately WB/DC needs to focus on making good movies until they have built a brand confidence that rivals Marvel. Enough BvS and Suicide Squad type movies where they get terrible reviews but make money hurt the other films down the line
That said I do think there's a lot of zack snyder fans who have straight up sworn off anything from DC without his involvement. Its weird as hell
Either way Birds of Prey was great I wish it was marketed correctly and not banking on being a breakout hit like Joker or Deadpool

[Vakanai]

The joker is not a dceu movie and the dceu does not have more varied tones or story then the mcu.
The dceu tones are either dark,light or somewhere in the middle just like the mcu.
The mcu tends to have more varied light tones then the dceu however.

Of course the dceu darkest films are darker on average then the darkest of the mcu films so far and the lightest tone dceu films is not as light as lightest of the mcu films.

All vary in tone but my point is the mcu has more varied story and hero types.
You can't find magicians or sorcerers or superheroes becoming small or huge in the dceu so far,so that's my other point.
Anyway all these above makes the mcu films more varied then the dceu films.
Now it looks like the dceu will have more varied types of stories,hero types and maybe more varied tones down the road but the mcu is still ahead of the dceu when it comes to diversity of films.

Not fair, MCU has like triple the number of films.