DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Have they already gone back on it? I thought the Venditti origin was still intact, albeit not many in-universe knowing the reincarnation cycle goes back before Khufu.

Venditti's new origin is still there to explain away all the post-Hawkworld inconsistencies, but his final story arc resolved all that so that it's no longer something future creators have to deal with, unless they want to. Given how reincarnation happy Hawkman/Hawkgirl stories have been recently, I think that's for the best.

[Robanker]

Venditti's new origin is still there to explain away all the post-Hawkworld inconsistencies, but his final story arc resolved all that so that it's no longer something future creators have to deal with, unless they want to. Given how reincarnation happy Hawkman/Hawkgirl stories have been recently, I think that's for the best.

Oh, that I remember. He basically took the reincarnation cycle out back and put it in the ground and it's absolutely for the best. If Carter or Kendra die, just revive them like other superheroes and let any and all new Hawks have a fresh start. The Venditti run really did some Herculean work moving heaven and earth to fix that mess for it to get mucked up again.

So you know it will be.

[Steel Inquisitor]

The gripe is you got POC sitting collecting dust.

Yeah that black girl might get excited by Cyclone but I RATHER have her excited about an ESTABLISHED black female.

Because when that little girl (and more importantly her PARENTS or GRANDPARENTS) go looking for something with that black Cyclone.

What will they find???????????

The same thing they found with Thunder and Lightning, Rocket, BOP Black Canary, Darla, CW Iris Flash & Batwoman (for now). NOTHING.

So who at DC is going to INVEST repeat INVEST in her to get material out there with her face on it? HER face not her in a team book. A book that is all about HER.

If she is going to be in comics make sure she is NOT Wallace West black ghetto stereotype 2.0 that need Priest to come save him.

If no one is going to do that-go get Bendis's Naomi or Nubia or Tonya Spears.


That is the issue with racebent casting-where is the extra material to KEEP someone interested.

That's reasonable.

[achilles]

That's reasonable.

No, no it isn't. Tanya Spears is an abomination created so DC could kill off the classic Power Girl. Kill her off now, horribly, as a warning to future writers who would create a Tanya Spears, and to future editors who mandate them. Everything else said there is fine though.

[Frontier]

No, no it isn't. Tanya Spears is an abomination created so DC could kill off the classic Power Girl. Kill her off now, horribly, as a warning to future writers who would create a Tanya Spears, and to future editors who mandate them. Everything else said there is fine though.

They didn't kill Karen off though...? At this point they almost have nothing to do with each other.

[Vordan]

No, no it isn't. Tanya Spears is an abomination created so DC could kill off the classic Power Girl. Kill her off now, horribly, as a warning to future writers who would create a Tanya Spears, and to future editors who mandate them. Everything else said there is fine though.

Uh an “abomination”? And they never killed Karen off, she just went back to Earth 2. She’s still around even now.

[achilles]

They didn't kill Karen off though...? At this point they almost have nothing to do with each other.

They didn't, but it's hard to argue that wasn't the intention when they created a new character that nu52 PG actually anoints as the new Power Girl the same panel she leaves for the nu52 version of Earth 2, otherwise known as the dumping ground for characters who would never matter again. Perhaps they either thought better of pulling the actual trigger, or they thought that burying her where she'd never really be seen again was enough. But the original intent was obvious. And...that option is still there, should DC care to use it.

[Artemisfanboy]

They didn't, but it's hard to argue that wasn't the intention when they created a new character that nu52 PG actually anoints as the new Power Girl the same panel she leaves for the nu52 version of Earth 2, otherwise known as the dumping ground for characters who would never matter again. Perhaps they either thought better of pulling the actual trigger, or they thought that burying her where she'd never really be seen again was enough. But the original intent was obvious. And...that option is still there, should DC care to use it.

I want to say you're overreacting, but I'm dealing with my own fears about them changing Maxine in the comics despite people trying to reassure me it shouldn't happen from experience with other characters. And if I'm afraid they may ignore Maxine's appearance in Doomsday Clock, who to say they won't make other changes like arbitrarily drop Karen from the team? So I'm more sympathetic to your fears than I may have been a few days ago. I'll say that I'm not against Tanya existing, and I don't consider her threat to Karen. Afterall while Tanya was around in Teen Titans, New 52 Karen was over in Earth 2 Society continuing to be mishandled and for them to demonstrate they didn't understand her at all. I do hope they returned Karen from Deathstroke and Doomsday Clock is brought back and handled much better. I also think Tanya could use a new code name to differentiate her from Karen.

While I could read Skyvolt's and Inquisitors comments in way that'd make me wince, I'm going to assume they want DC to use characters that have been actually created as minorities, instead of racebending other characters, and they do not want to see Maxine or any of those other characters to have their races changed in the comics to match the movie or show.

Getting ahead of myself, if they make any serious changes to the JSA team we saw in Doomsday Clock beyond adding a missing member such as Shayera or using Jesse's Jesse Quick Identity over her Liberty Belle one, like changing Maxine or dropping members like Karen, it might piss me off enough I walk away. Now I'm trying to calm down and take things as they come, but I'd be lying if I didn't say I currently in a state of anxiety over the potential JSA relaunch. The level of uncertainty about it is killing me and I'd wish they'd be more forth coming with the details, whether I end up liking them or not. The fact we know more about the Crime Syndicate's book than the JSA's is bothering me. Given how they've been dragging their feet on this makes me even wonder if anybody but Johns cared about bringing them back. If it wasn't for the small tease from Hitch I'd be really despondent, and even then it shows the Golden age team, not the modern day one.

Really, I just want know what they're planning. I can handle not liking it and having to walk away if I dislike it enough. It wouldn't be the first time DC has disappointed me enough I've done it. But I'd really like the uncertainty removed so I can make my own decision about whether I want to spend my time on them.

[Pinsir]

It's pretty obvious why red-headed characters are often race bent into black characters; most red-headed characters were in supporting roles and their red-hair was an easy way to demarcate them from the hero. Well, this isn't the 1990's anymore, you can't have an all white cast, but you can't race bend the main character, so...

It should also be noted that a lot of side kicks in the good ol' days that weren't red-headed, we're, uh...racial caricatures, designed that way to help further distinguish between them and the protagonist.

[The Darknight Detective]

The percentage of redheads is two per cent. Of that, how many are the carrot tops you normally see in comic books?

[Pinsir]

You asked a question. It has been answered. Do you understand the difference between Marvel TV and Marvel Studios?

Studios are not self-aware entities that produce media, the people employed by them do. If Taika Watiti or James Gunn or Jon Favarou or those dudes who made the Cap movies were involved sure, maybe you could make the connection, but I don't think any of them are.

Also, it should be noted that the reply to yours wasn't a defense of my initial argument, as I considered your response to be something of a non-sequitor. The argument I was responding was, as I understood it, "Marvel projects are basically guaranteed successes due to their brand name." and my response was, "Well Marvel projects like this have failed before." So providing reasons for their failure doesn't really address my argument.

[Vordan]

The percentage of redheads is two per cent. Of that, how many are the carrot tops you normally see in comic books?

We carrot tops need love too

[achilles]

I want to say you're overreacting, but I'm dealing with my own fears about them changing Maxine in the comics despite people trying to reassure me it shouldn't happen from experience with other characters. And if I'm afraid they may ignore Maxine's appearance in Doomsday Clock, who to say they won't make other changes like arbitrarily drop Karen from the team? So I'm more sympathetic to your fears than I may have been a few days ago. I'll say that I'm not against Tanya existing, and I don't consider her threat to Karen. Afterall while Tanya was around in Teen Titans, New 52 Karen was over in Earth 2 Society continuing to be mishandled and for them to demonstrate they didn't understand her at all. I do hope they returned Karen from Deathstroke and Doomsday Clock is brought back and handled much better. I also think Tanya could use a new code name to differentiate her from Karen.

While I could read Skyvolt's and Inquisitors comments in way that'd make me wince, I'm going to assume they want DC to use characters that have been actually created as minorities, instead of racebending other characters, and they do not want to see Maxine or any of those other characters to have their races changed in the comics to match the movie or show.

Getting ahead of myself, if they make any serious changes to the JSA team we saw in Doomsday Clock beyond adding a missing member such as Shayera or using Jesse's Jesse Quick Identity over her Liberty Belle one, like changing Maxine or dropping members like Karen, it might piss me off enough I walk away. Now I'm trying to calm down and take things as they come, but I'd be lying if I didn't say I currently in a state of anxiety over the potential JSA relaunch. The level of uncertainty about it is killing me and I'd wish they'd be more forth coming with the details, whether I end up liking them or not. The fact we know more about the Crime Syndicate's book than the JSA's is bothering me. Given how they've been dragging their feet on this makes me even wonder if anybody but Johns cared about bringing them back. If it wasn't for the small tease from Hitch I'd be really despondent, and even then it shows the Golden age team, not the modern day one.

Really, I just want know what they're planning. I can handle not liking it and having to walk away if I dislike it enough. It wouldn't be the first time DC has disappointed me enough I've done it. But I'd really like the uncertainty removed so I can make my own decision about whether I want to spend my time on them.

IF they decide to give Spears a new code name, and retcon her so that she has no connection to PG, I'm fine with her. As for Maxine...I'd say you have reason to fear that. Sorry to say. It's all fun and games until they try something like a Kord with your own personal favorite. That's what I was afraid would happen to PG with the introduction of Spears. With Maxine, another character I grew to like...I don't think she's in danger of being killed off so much as simply being retconned. I'd say we'll know about her when she makes her first new appearance. That's really DC's window to change her.

[Johnny]

It's pretty obvious why red-headed characters are often race bent into black characters; most red-headed characters were in supporting roles and their red-hair was an easy way to demarcate them from the hero. Well, this isn't the 1990's anymore, you can't have an all white cast, but you can't race bend the main character, so...

It should also be noted that a lot of side kicks in the good ol' days that weren't red-headed, we're, uh...racial caricatures, designed that way to help further distinguish between them and the protagonist.

Yeah, you can have an all-anything cast including white. Just because you can insert diversity into everything doesn't mean you should or need to. I doubt most regular moviegoers care as much about diversity as modern-day Hollywood would like you to believe. General audiences don't tend to look at something like Game of Thrones and say there's too many white people there. Give them a fun trailer and they'll go see the movie or tune in for the show.

[The Darknight Detective]

We carrot tops need love too

Heh. My parents actually thought I was going to be a redhead when I was a baby, because I had red eyebrows for a time. My mustache did have some red mixed in with the brown (before I had to shave it off ten years ago because it was turning grey like my hair).