DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[Vordan]

I don't the first one eas flop but it was a disappointment when it came to box office like man of steel and bvs.


Most critics and audiences would disagree with this looking at box office and critic and audience scores.

The first two Thor movies have been pretty consistently viewed as the weakest, Loki aside. Was really only with Ragnarok that Thor got a hit. That’s my understanding at least.

[Myskin]

She didn't though? She just stopped Ares from making it worse.

The ending - after battling Ares in bad CGI Super Sayian mode - destroys any possible interesting ambiguity the movie had kept up to that moment regarding why men go at war with each other.
As someone else suggested long ago, it would have been way more interesting if - after killing the General - war simply hadn't stopped and Ares and his awful moustache hadn't appeared at all.

[Vordan]

The ending - after battling Ares in bad CGI Super Sayian mode - destroys any possible interesting ambiguity the movie had kept up to that moment regarding why men go at war with each other.
As someone else suggested long ago, it would have been way more interesting if - after killing the General - war simply hadn't stopped and Ares and his awful moustache hadn't appeared at all.

War didn’t stop though, WWI carried on, that was the whole point of Ares ending monologue about the evils of men and supposedly why Diana “walked away” (but not really).

[Frontier]

The first two Thor movies have been pretty consistently viewed as the weakest, Loki aside. Was really only with Ragnarok that Thor got a hit. That’s my understanding at least.

Ironically the least "Thor" of the Thor movies.

The ending - after battling Ares in bad CGI Super Sayian mode - destroys any possible interesting ambiguity the movie had kept up to that moment regarding why men go at war with each other.
As someone else suggested long ago, it would have been way more interesting if - after killing the General - war simply hadn't stopped and Ares and his awful moustache hadn't appeared at all.

The whole point of the final fight and Diana's resolve was that despite the fact that men will continue to go to war, the world is still beautiful and worth fighting for in-spite of that.

Ares told her he had nothing to do with WWI, he just helped fan the flames of the escalating conflict to make it worse which is why she had to stop him.

[mace11]

The first two Thor movies have been pretty consistently viewed as the weakest, Loki aside. Was really only with Ragnarok that Thor got a hit. That’s my understanding at least.

Weakest does not mean crap and they were not flops.
Thor 1 has rt scores over 75% for example.

[skyvolt2000]

Talking squirrel and sentient tree are not "risky characters" but a core Batfamily member and a teenager with lighting powers are. WB logic.

I will say this-get ready to see a LOT more of this "logic" when it comes to POC and even female lead films that don't fit the norm.

Both of those scream a theater release. Yet studios will hide behind the pandemic to justify cutting corners.

Now in Static's case the most common name for the lead is Caleb from Stranger Things. We know Skylan Brooks (Dark Minds) wants the role too.

Or Tyler James Williams's little brother from Lab Rats.


I have already seen claims of justifying this movie because of Black Lightening had a show.

Yeah Static had one FIRST and like Miles Morales-his powers are way different from Jefferson. The issue is which version do you go by?

Old school version

New 52 version

Cartoon version

Loser Young Justice Version

Old school version doesn't pander to make folks feel good like the others.

[SiegePerilous02]

The ending - after battling Ares in bad CGI Super Sayian mode - destroys any possible interesting ambiguity the movie had kept up to that moment regarding why men go at war with each other.
As someone else suggested long ago, it would have been way more interesting if - after killing the General - war simply hadn't stopped and Ares and his awful moustache hadn't appeared at all.

Men still go to war with each other of their own volition. Ares was just looking to egg them on and make it worse, so defeating him at most prevented a greater disaster. He makes this very clear in his villain monologue, and the lesson Diana learns to embrace humanity for both the good and bad.

The ambiguity isn't removed because Ares is explicitly not behind making men evil.

[achilles]

The ending - after battling Ares in bad CGI Super Sayian mode - destroys any possible interesting ambiguity the movie had kept up to that moment regarding why men go at war with each other.
As someone else suggested long ago, it would have been way more interesting if - after killing the General - war simply hadn't stopped and Ares and his awful moustache hadn't appeared at all.

IMO, the first movie would have been much better had they dispensed with the characters of Luttendorf, (a real person who would never have been caught dead within a hundred miles of the front lines), and Dr. Poison, who let's face it contributed nothing essential to the plot save an obvious and useless red herring that couldn't have been done with a one line explanation of how they got the poison gas, concentrated on developing Ned Flanders instead, and also getting rid of the Howling Stereotypes, who also did nothing. That's a lot of dead plot space which could have been used to focus on the main plot, (since the other threads went nowhere), and to strengthen the characters who mattered.

[SiegePerilous02]

IMO, the first movie would have been much better had they dispensed with the characters of Luttendorf, (a real person who would never have been caught dead within a hundred miles of the front lines), and Dr. Poison, who let's face it contributed nothing essential to the plot save an obvious and useless red herring that couldn't have been done with a one line explanation of how they got the poison gas, concentrated on developing Ned Flanders instead, and also getting rid of the Howling Stereotypes, who also did nothing. That's a lot of dead plot space which could have been used to focus on the main plot, (since the other threads went nowhere), and to strengthen the characters who mattered.

You said this before that these characters didn't go anywhere, but it's a complaint that doesn't make sense.

The main characters who mattered in this movie were Diana, Steve, Antiope and Hippolyta, and I'd say all of them fulfilled their narrative function perfectly well. Everyone else is a support player, which every CBM has, so it seems odd to complain that they didn't go anywhere.

[Hypo]

Interesting profile on Walter Hamada and the upcoming plan for DC's movies.

Other thing that stood out to me in that article:

At least for now, Mr. Snyder is not part of the new DC Films blueprint, with studio executives describing his HBO Max project as a storytelling cul-de-sac — a street that leads nowhere.

[Vordan]

Other thing that stood out to me in that article:

Yeah I cited that in an earlier post too. I guess we’ll see if they’ll hold to that once the SC is out.

[Myskin]

Ares told her he had nothing to do with WWI, he just helped fan the flames of the escalating conflict to make it worse which is why she had to stop him.

Yes, she told her that, but he is actually personally doing his best to make the conflict continue at the end of the movie. After Ares is killed, I vaguely remember soldiers hugging (or smiling?) too. Basically war is over after Ares' death. There is a huge gap between what the characters say and what de facto happens at the end. It's one of the many problems several people have with the third act.

[SiegePerilous02]

Yes, she told her that, but he is actually personally doing his best to make the conflict continue at the end of the movie. After Ares is killed, I vaguely remember soldiers hugging (or smiling) too. Basically war is over after Ares' death. There is a huge gap between what the characters say and what de facto happens at the end. It's one of the many problems several people have with the third act.

I think they are celebrating the fact that are all not dead after the cackling lightning spewing God (**** they've never seen before or have cause to believe exists) vanished and they are no longer in any imminent danger.

Not literally the war is over entirely, just a shared "what the **** was that?" mentality and relief it was over and the steam had gone out of this little incident (one part of a large tapestry of war).

[Myskin]

I think they are celebrating the fact that are all not dead after the cackling lightning spewing God (**** they've never seen before or have cause to believe exists) vanished and they are no longer in any imminent danger.

Not literally the war is over entirely, just a shared "what the **** was that?" mentality and relief it was over.

Look, I'll tell you what I think.
I think that these movies are simply not made to deal with real-life, recognizable tragedies unless they are extremely distant in time or unless they are presented through the form of allegories. Sokovia and Wakanda are OK. Making characters with an extremely simplistic moral view such as Wonder Woman deal with World War I or Israeli-Palestinian conflict (as some moments in WW84 may suggest), not so much. Especially when - as it happens in the first movie - they claim to give some kind of closure, or a simplistic overview, to something as complicated as a world conflict.

[Frontier]

Yes, she told her that, but he is actually personally doing his best to make the conflict continue at the end of the movie. After Ares is killed, I vaguely remember soldiers hugging (or smiling?) too. Basically war is over after Ares' death. There is a huge gap between what the characters say and what de facto happens at the end. It's one of the many problems several people have with the third act.

Well, yeah, because he's a villain. He's not the cause of all war but he's still the God of War, and there was a purpose to Diana actually coming to Man's World to stop him.

I think the message with the soldiers at the end was that, basically, humanity won over Ares moreso than the actual war was over because life would go on no matter what. That's why Diana resolved to keep fighting.

Look, I'll tell you what I think.
I think that these movies are simply not made to deal with real-life, recognizable tragedies unless they are extremely distant in time or unless they are presented through the form of allegories. Sokovia and Wakanda are OK. Making characters with an extremely simplistic moral view such as Wonder Woman deal with World War I or Israeli-Palestinian conflict (as some moments in WW84 may suggest), not so much. Especially when - as it happens in the first movie - they claim to give some kind of closure, or a simplistic overview, to something as complicated as a world conflict.

Superheroes run on idealistic paradigms. They can't solve real world problems but however unrealistic their ideals are, they can still reach people through them.

Diana was shaken that her belief she could end all war by beating a god was wrong because she didn't really understand humanity, but she realized the good in humanity along with the bad to realize the world was beautiful and worth preserving even if she had to continue fighting against a society constantly at war with itself in one way or another. An unrealistic ideal, to be sure, but a grand one in my opinion.