DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[Flash Gordon]

The hot takes about "Snyder fans aren't true DC fans", "Snyder movies all flopped" and "No one wants to watch them" is as old as it is inaccurate.

Yeah, it's just fanspeak nonsense. If the Snyder movies were as lambasted as claimed here, there wouldn't be an entirely new JL movie coming out. I'm not really into his vision of the DCU (though I do think it makes interesting movies), but it's ridiculous to insist that no one is.

The constant talk of "insider knowledge" about AT&T falling apart is getting old.

[Goldrake]

Ironic considering their convinced that the MCU was copying a (to paraphrase) “stolen outline of Snyder’s vision that that snake Johns leaked to his old buddy Feige” etc etc

Due to the fact that JL failed enough to see Johns and Berg out the door and that there was enough to Fisher’s claims to see Whedon kicked; Snyder may well have to be put back in charge if only to keep some measure of hype for DC movies going forward

Its really pick and choose, so the story goes that Johns failed in JL but conveniently its forgotten that he scored
a massive a hit with Aquaman, that snyder not even in his dreams will ever achieve, he didn't even manage to do that with Batman and Superman, the two most recognized superhero movies around.
The only hype that you can get from snyder is from his cult and it doesn't translate into box office success as we have seen.
Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Shazam proof that the audiences have embraced them unlike the previous movies of the DCEU. We all know what was the difference is these movies and those that preceded them.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Yeah, it's just fanspeak nonsense. If the Snyder movies were as lambasted as claimed here, there wouldn't be an entirely new JL movie coming out. I'm not really into his vision of the DCU (though I do think it makes interesting movies), but it's ridiculous to insist that no one is.

It's not about fans complaining about anything, it's what WB's brass think and Hamada is the top of that pyramid and he thinks the Snyder Cut is a one-off and has no interest in doing new project with Snyder at the moment. This is ignoring the fact that if the public loved Snyder's DCEU he wouldn't be in movie jail at the moment on HBO Max and the current DCEU is moving in the opposite direction with tone. Have you seen WW '84? It's more like Donner's Superman than Man of Steel. The future of the DCEU is Wan's Aquaman, not Snyder's Superman. He may be getting the Snyder Cut in theatres but it's still tied to HBO Max, not the current DCEU. He's siloed off. Never said nobody's interested in his vision of the DCEU.

The constant talk of "insider knowledge" about AT&T falling apart is getting old.

That's a straw man, I was speculating on what we know and the likeliness of what's going to happen based on Snyder's history with WB and what a fluke The Snyder Cut is. Instead you'd have me believe Snyder's going to return in control with his plans intact before the Snyder Cut is releases and that there are no barriers at WB for Snyder now. Which is ridiculous. "Falling apart" implies AT&T signed off on Snyder doing more than the Snyder Cut when all we have is him and other associates from Justice league boosting a hashtag to let him gain control back of the DCEU. This isn't about your boredom of what's going on in the DCEU, it's about the facts.

[Flash Gordon]

It's not about fans complaining about anything, it's what WB's brass think and Hamada is the top of that pyramid and he thinks the Snyder Cut is a one-off and has no interest in doing new project with Snyder at the moment. This is ignoring the fact that if the public loved Snyder's DCEU he wouldn't be in movie jail at the moment on HBO Max and the current DCEU is moving in the opposite direction with tone. Have you seen WW '84? It's more like Donner's Superman than Man of Steel. The future of the DCEU is Wan's Aquaman, not Snyder's Superman. He may be getting the Snyder Cut in theatres but it's still tied to HBO Max, not the current DCEU. He's siloed off. Never said nobody's interested in his vision of the DCEU.

Wan's AQUAMAN is the best of the best. That's what I want more of. I don't want everything to be the same though. Diversity in narrative and tone and aesthetic, these are all great things. Snyder's stuff is really distinct.

This gatekeepy stuff with "it's in theatres but really isn't in theatres" is no fun though.

That's a straw man, I was speculating on what we know and the likeliness of what's going to happen based on Snyder's history with WB and what a fluke The Snyder Cut is. Instead you'd have me believe Snyder's going to return in control with his plans intact before the Snyder Cut is releases and that there are no barriers at WB for Snyder now. Which is ridiculous. "Falling apart" implies AT&T signed off on Snyder doing more than the Snyder Cut when all we have is him and other associates from Justice league boosting a hashtag to let him gain control back of the DCEU. This isn't about your boredom of what's going on in the DCEU, it's about the facts.

Well you got all the facts, so really who am I to argue?

[Vakanai]

Alright, so I haven't really been on since early November - what movie/show news has dropped past couple months?

[SiegePerilous02]

Made less than Marvel =/= failure. And not agreeing with you on how Superman and Batman, two characters who have been reinterpreted numerous times for decades, is not the same thing as not understanding the characters. That type of gatekeeping nonsense is textbook fandom toxicity. I've seen plenty of Superman fans who takes on the character are a lot less accurate than they would like to admit or just ignore aspects of the character they don't like.

It's not really just about the amount of money it made, but more when and how it made it. it definitely wasn't an outright failure, but the steep second box office drop after the first weekend was alarming and not something that happens if audiences are going for what you're selling. Superman and Batman meeting up for the first time every on the big screen is the easiest sell in the world, that's why the movie was front loaded. But the poor word of mouth and lack of repeat business was going to tell the studio that casual audiences weren't going to keep showing up. And they were right, because JL was a clear sequel to BvS and is considered a flop. And the Snyder vs. Whedon stuff wasn't really a factor for anyone but online fans.

If the movie was a clear hit with critics and more importantly, general audiences, I think fans who still bitched about the changes from the comics would be guilty of toxic gate keeping. But when seemingly most of the fans, general audiences and critics are all on the same page of either being apathetic or outright hating this, I don't think pointing out that Snyder may not get it can really be considered toxic, but actually just common sense. At least not every version of that criticism should be.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Wan's AQUAMAN is the best of the best. That's what I want more of. I don't want everything to be the same though. Diversity in narrative and tone and aesthetic, these are all great things. Snyder's stuff is really distinct.

This gatekeepy stuff with "it's in theatres but really isn't in theatres" is no fun though.

Walter Hamada isn't gatekeeping when he says The Snyder Cut isn't part of the DCEU.

Well you got all the facts, so really who am I to argue?

Just I thought, there is no argument just feelings.

[Frontier]

Alright, so I haven't really been on since early November - what movie/show news has dropped past couple months?

WW1984 on HBOMax...Cyclone cast in Black Adam...some castings for Peacemaker's show on HBOMax...

[Vakanai]

WW1984 on HBOMax...Cyclone cast in Black Adam...some castings for Peacemaker's show on HBOMax...

Ah. Outside WW84 mostly news I can't have an opinion on since I don't know the characters as well.
Thanks!

[HsssH]

If the movie was a clear hit with critics and more importantly, general audiences, I think fans who still bitched about the changes from the comics would be guilty of toxic gate keeping. But when seemingly most of the fans, general audiences and critics are all on the same page of either being apathetic or outright hating this, I don't think pointing out that Snyder may not get it can really be considered toxic, but actually just common sense. At least not every version of that criticism should be.

Difference between BvS theatrical and directors cut is not about getting or not getting some characters, yet one is much better than the other.

[Goldrake]

It's not about fans complaining about anything, it's what WB's brass think and Hamada is the top of that pyramid and he thinks the Snyder Cut is a one-off and has no interest in doing new project with Snyder at the moment. This is ignoring the fact that if the public loved Snyder's DCEU he wouldn't be in movie jail at the moment on HBO Max and the current DCEU is moving in the opposite direction with tone. Have you seen WW '84? It's more like Donner's Superman than Man of Steel. The future of the DCEU is Wan's Aquaman, not Snyder's Superman. He may be getting the Snyder Cut in theatres but it's still tied to HBO Max, not the current DCEU. He's siloed off. Never said nobody's interested in his vision of the DCEU.



That's a straw man, I was speculating on what we know and the likeliness of what's going to happen based on Snyder's history with WB and what a fluke The Snyder Cut is. Instead you'd have me believe Snyder's going to return in control with his plans intact before the Snyder Cut is releases and that there are no barriers at WB for Snyder now. Which is ridiculous. "Falling apart" implies AT&T signed off on Snyder doing more than the Snyder Cut when all we have is him and other associates from Justice league boosting a hashtag to let him gain control back of the DCEU. This isn't about your boredom of what's going on in the DCEU, it's about the facts.

perfect, audiences want Aquaman or WW type of movies, not snyderverse.
Aquaman was a massive hit, snyder not even close.
Now his stans can blame Johns, Hamada etc, facts are that audiences worldwide have spoken which movies they prefer.

[SiegePerilous02]

Difference between BvS theatrical and directors cut is not about getting or not getting some characters, yet one is much better than the other.

Better yes. "Much,"...eh. Some plot points get clarified, but it still has the same issues as the theatrical cut. It's just longer.

While the director's cut is a little better regarded, I don't think it's changed the narrative surrounding the film a great deal outside of the Snyder fans.

[HsssH]

While the director's cut is a little better regarded, I don't think it's changed the narrative surrounding the film a great deal outside of the Snyder fans.

Has that ever happened?

[SiegePerilous02]

Has that ever happened?

Can't think of many examples though I'm sure others could.

But if the narrative hasn't changed, the director's cut isn't much better. Or at best it's a little less bad than it was before. And it's pointed out as being bad even by people who aren't as hung up on the characters changes as diehard fans are.

[Flash Gordon]

Can't think of many examples though I'm sure others could.

But if the narrative hasn't changed, the director's cut isn't much better. Or at best it's a little less bad than it was before. And it's pointed out as being bad even by people who aren't as hung up on the characters changes as diehard fans are.

I think a lot of that has to do with studio suits chopping the movie up for a theatrical release. Most people have seen that one and only that one and it's a really bad movie. The Ultimate Cut is how the actual movie is meant to be seen and it slaps, unfortunately it has to be sought out.