DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[Alpha]

They did that previously with Batman: Hush and looked at what happened. People hated it. I prefer The Long Halloween be standalone. It will be divided into 2 parts. I prefer they stick to standalone movies because their previous animated universe ( the DCAMU) wasn't particularly well received. Even Justice Society: World War 2 isn't being well received. The criticism is mainly towards the plot, but Wonder Woman and Black Canary were amazing. Having the same animation style doesn't mean it will be in the same universe. Despite the similar designs, animation, and voice cast, Superman: Brainiac Attacks is not considered a sequel to Superman: The Animated Series nor is it connected to the DC Animated Universe.

Whatever you thought of Batman Hush, being in a shared universe had nothing to do with why people disliked it.

[Vakanai]

What's stupid about it? I don't think they're gonna change the story at all.

We don't know that they won't change the story to "fit" - after all, look at how they changed Hush, or the Court of Owls. So, how might they decide to change this? Maybe Joker or Riddler will be the killer. Never mind the fact that by choosing to have it be in their shared universe they ruined/wasted their chance to have it in an artstyle more closely resembling that of the comic book. Now we're stuck with it being drawn in the flat, uninspired house style. And what do we gain having it be a part of their shared universe? How does it being included in their new universe make anything better? The answer is it doesn't. We gain nothing by having it be a part of this new rebooted universe, we just risk possible story changes and are saddled with a less interesting art style. So it's lesser than it could've been on an art front, and it risks unappealing changes on the plot front. What was the reason to include it in the shared universe setting? How does that make it a better film at all than if it had been a true standalone?

[Vakanai]

Whatever you thought of Batman Hush, being in a shared universe had nothing to do with why people disliked it.

They changed it radically. Can you honestly say that they would have felt as free to change it so badly if it wasn't part of the shared universe?

[Lightning Rider]

Random idea, but I think if they were to start fresh in a few years, I think I'd skip origins and build up to a new Justice League film with smaller team movies. 3-5 movies with 3-4 heroes at a time in the same film taking on individual threats, maybe building up to an Secret Society movie.

Superman and Supergirl, ft. the Atom, against Brainiac & rescuing Kandor (maybe Lex in the background)

Wonder Woman, Shazam, Aquaman against Circe & some Greek gods/monsters in the underworld (maybe Cheetah makes an appearance)

Flash and Green Lantern(s) try to contain the Rann-Thanagar war (Sinestro teaser)

J'onn, Black Canary, and Green Arrow take on Ma'alefa'ak or Count Vertigo

A Batfamily film, or Batman & the outsiders ft. Vixen, Black Lightning, & Katana (maybe Nightwing too) against the Court of Owls or Royal Flush Gang.

That sets up a lot of relationships/characters while avoiding redundancy.

How would you all plan movies with that formula in mind? (might make this a thread on its own...)

[Vakanai]

Random idea, but I think if they were to start fresh in a few years, I think I'd skip origins and build up to a new Justice League film with smaller team movies. 3-5 movies with 3-4 heroes at a time in the same film taking on individual threats, maybe building up to an Secret Society movie.

Superman and Supergirl, ft. the Atom, against Brainiac & rescuing Kandor (maybe Lex in the background)

Wonder Woman, Shazam, Aquaman against Circe & some Greek gods/monsters in the underworld (maybe Cheetah makes an appearance)

Flash and Green Lantern(s) try to contain the Rann-Thanagar war (Sinestro teaser)

J'onn, Black Canary, and Green Arrow take on Ma'alefa'ak or Count Vertigo

A Batfamily film, or Batman & the outsiders ft. Vixen, Black Lightning, & Katana (maybe Nightwing too) against the Court of Owls or Royal Flush Gang.

That sets up a lot of relationships/characters while avoiding redundancy.

How would you all plan movies with that formula in mind? (might make this a thread on its own...)

Honestly, I'd rather they just revisit the old Justice League Mortal idea and kick off a universe with Justice League first, skipping origins - even the team has been around for a bit.

For individual smaller team films featuring JL members?

Wonder Woman and JLD.

Superman and Supergirl timetraveling with Flash to a smaller LoSH future to take on Reverse-Flash and Time Trapper.

[Frontier]

They did that previously with Batman: Hush and looked at what happened. People hated it. I prefer The Long Halloween be standalone. It will be divided into 2 parts. I prefer they stick to standalone movies because their previous animated universe ( the DCAMU) wasn't particularly well received. Even Justice Society: World War 2 isn't being well received. The criticism is mainly towards the plot, but Wonder Woman and Black Canary were amazing. Having the same animation style doesn't mean it will be in the same universe. Despite the similar designs, animation, and voice cast, Superman: Brainiac Attacks is not considered a sequel to Superman: The Animated Series nor is it connected to the DC Animated Universe.

If the plot issues don't have anything to do with the shared universe aspect, I don't see the issue.

They changed it radically. Can you honestly say that they would have felt as free to change it so badly if it wasn't part of the shared universe?

Well, they changed Gotham by Gaslight too (for similar reasons) and that was an Elseworld.

[Alpha]

They changed it radically. Can you honestly say that they would have felt as free to change it so badly if it wasn't part of the shared universe?

Yes. Look at Justice League Crisis on Two Earths and Justice League Doom. Those movies weren't in a shared universe (well, I guess the former sort of was but not really) and yet the stories were basically rewritten. None of the changes they made to Hush had anything to do with it being in a shared universe. The reason why they changed who the identity of Hush was so we wouldn't be watching a movie with a central mmystery until the end that everyone already knew the answer to. The Batman Catwoman also didn't have anything to do with being in a shared universe. She has never appeared before and didn't appear after that movie either.

Court of Owls on the other hand did change because of being in a shared universe, but then again, the original story isn't very good anyway. Once Bruce gets stuck in the labyrinth the story stops going anywhere. Scott Snyder didn't really have a point he wanted to make other than 'there's a secret society in Gotham that Bruce didn't know about". Heck, remember the trash with Lincoln March being Bruce's brother and them fighting in an old house? What was the point in that?

[Vordan]

They changed it radically. Can you honestly say that they would have felt as free to change it so badly if it wasn't part of the shared universe?

Outside of a few rare exceptions, DC has not recreated the stories panel for panel in these movies. They changed Under The Red Hood. Doomsday was a radically different movie from the Death of Superman. All-Star got changed. Doom and Crisis on Two Earths only took the basic concepts of Tower of Babel and Earth 2. The Red Son movie was a standalone Elseworld but that has changed too, and the Gotham by Gaslight movie is totally different with its reveal of who Jack the Ripper is. Hush’s changes were not because of the shared universe but because they wanted to include a “twist” like the original, but since everyone knew Elliot was Hush they decided to switch that up.

[Alpha]

Honestly, I'd rather they just revisit the old Justice League Mortal idea and kick off a universe with Justice League first, skipping origins - even the team has been around for a bit.

For individual smaller team films featuring JL members?

Wonder Woman and JLD.

Superman and Supergirl timetraveling with Flash to a smaller LoSH future to take on Reverse-Flash and Time Trapper.

Yeah all those ideas could be fun. Flash in the Legion of Super-Heroes future HELL YES!
Justice League Mortal HELL YESS
JLDark adapting Witching Hour with Wonder Woman FCK YEAH!

[Frontier]

Outside of a few rare exceptions, DC has not recreated the stories panel for panel in these movies. They changed Under The Red Hood. Doomsday was a radically different movie from the Death of Superman. All-Star got changed. Doom and Crisis on Two Earths only took the basic concepts of Tower of Babel and Earth 2. The Red Son movie was a standalone Elseworld but that has changed too, and the Gotham by Gaslight movie is totally different with its reveal of who Jack the Ripper is. Hush’s changes were not because of the shared universe but because they wanted to include a “twist” like the original, but since everyone knew Elliot was Hush they decided to switch that up.

The only one-to-one adaptions I can think of were Year One, Dark Knight Returns, and I guess New Frontier even though they cut some stuff out and added stuff like more Clark/Lois stuff and Batman being in the big battle with the Center.

I guess Flashpoint wasn't that different, just the beginning, Harley, and not mentioning Thawne was the one who killed Nora.

[Lightning Rider]

Honestly, I'd rather they just revisit the old Justice League Mortal idea and kick off a universe with Justice League first, skipping origins - even the team has been around for a bit.

For individual smaller team films featuring JL members?

Wonder Woman and JLD.

Superman and Supergirl timetraveling with Flash to a smaller LoSH future to take on Reverse-Flash and Time Trapper.

I'd probably prefer that also, I just think it's a little difficult to balance.

Cool ideas though. LoSH needs its day.

[Vakanai]

Well, they changed Gotham by Gaslight too (for similar reasons) and that was an Elseworld.

That was also dumb - but Gotham by Gaslight is a shorter story, and doesn't introduce a villain that normally would be recurring like Hush. While both films got changed, there's an argument that the "whys" may be different.

Yes. Look at Justice League Crisis on Two Earths and Justice League Doom. Those movies weren't in a shared universe (well, I guess the former sort of was but not really) and yet the stories were basically rewritten. None of the changes they made to Hush had anything to do with it being in a shared universe. The reason why they changed who the identity of Hush was so we wouldn't be watching a movie with a central mmystery until the end that everyone already knew the answer to. The Batman Catwoman also didn't have anything to do with being in a shared universe. She has never appeared before and didn't appear after that movie either.

Court of Owls on the other hand did change because of being in a shared universe, but then again, the original story isn't very good anyway. Once Bruce gets stuck in the labyrinth the story stops going anywhere. Scott Snyder didn't really have a point he wanted to make other than 'there's a secret society in Gotham that Bruce didn't know about". Heck, remember the trash with Lincoln March being Bruce's brother and them fighting in an old house? What was the point in that?

Crisis on Two Earths wasn't an adaptation. It was inspired by an existing story, but it wasn't in any way intended to be an adaptation of that story. It was based on a script by the late great McDuffie for the DCAU JL series. They didn't make those episodes, but thought the script was too good not to use. So you can't say they changed it, because it's not an adaptation. Likewise Doom wasn't intended to be an adaptation either, but it's also not a great movie and not worth the time discussing - it's just not intended as an adaptation of the Tower of Babel storyline, it only uses the Batman contingency against the JL idea.

There's more changed adaptations in the shared universe than outside of it. Maybe being a part of the shared universe was just a coincidence, but the numbers just aren't promising enough to say the universe sharing had nothing to do with it.

[Vakanai]

Outside of a few rare exceptions, DC has not recreated the stories panel for panel in these movies. They changed Under The Red Hood. Doomsday was a radically different movie from the Death of Superman. All-Star got changed. Doom and Crisis on Two Earths only took the basic concepts of Tower of Babel and Earth 2. The Red Son movie was a standalone Elseworld but that has changed too, and the Gotham by Gaslight movie is totally different with its reveal of who Jack the Ripper is. Hush’s changes were not because of the shared universe but because they wanted to include a “twist” like the original, but since everyone knew Elliot was Hush they decided to switch that up.

True, they're not panel for panel adaptations, but your definition of adaptation is too broad. Crisis on Two Earths, Doom, and Doomsday aren't adaptations. They take ideas from existing comics, but they're original movies. All-Star got changed, but mostly to shorten the story into a cohesive plot for the limited time they had to tell it. They didn't so much change a lot as they left a lot out (or so I'm told, haven't read the book). Under the Red Hood mostly just changed the Superboy punch thing to the more insular Lazarus Pit explanation for bringing Jason back. Because including some other thing from some unrelated comic would be confusing to a wider audience.

Ignoring the original stories that take inspiration from the comics, and considering only real adaptations - the ones in the shared universe have the most changes that were also the most unneeded. The bulk of the rest can be explained by "not an adaptation" "trimmed stuff out for time" or "to work better as a standalone movie". The worst offenders happen to be Gotham by Gaslight, and the shared universe movies.

[Vakanai]

Yeah all those ideas could be fun. Flash in the Legion of Super-Heroes future HELL YES!
Justice League Mortal HELL YESS
JLDark adapting Witching Hour with Wonder Woman FCK YEAH!

Honestly, with all the time travel stories that the Flash gets involved in, the fact that there's not some classic Flash and the Legion of Super-Heroes crossover comic seems like a very obvious thing and it's weird it hasn't happened yet. Like, the Flash can travel to the future and he's never had a big story with these guys? How has someone not thought of something like this yet?

[Vakanai]

I'd probably prefer that also, I just think it's a little difficult to balance.

Cool ideas though. LoSH needs its day.

If they ever do another Superman origin story, they should skip the Krypton explosion, childhood scenes in Smallville, and just do a LoSH story for Clark becoming Superman for the first time. That's how you do his origin and mix it up.