DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[Vakanai]

Think you're confusing me with someone else. I haven't mentioned connectivity; I don't think it's all that important one way or the other---it's how good the movie is. The Suicide Squad, (or SS...which is it---the good one?) was good. Taxi...er, Joker, was also good. Aquaman I hear was fun. Some others, not so much.

I did - it's because you quoted me/replied to my post that was a response to another poster. Since you responded to a response aimed at another I didn't look at the name and just assumed it was the same poster, sorry.

And yes, we all know that Taxi Driver was a huge inspiration to Joker, at some point that gag has to stop - most of us, and most of the audience, have never and will never see Taxi Driver.

[El_Gato]

When will WB learn!!? In order to sell your lesser known characters you need a well established and connected universe! Otherwise you get box office duds like Shazam, BOP, and now TSS. Joker and Batman can survive without a shared universe, because they’re the biggest DC characters, none of the others can.

Since they’re still going the “unconnected solo route” they should continue to expected 300M to 600M grossers! That’s probably where Black Adam will end up. Marvel changed the game (like they did in the comics) and now DC is struggling to keep up lol How ironic! I think putting Blue Beetle and Batgirl on HBO was the right call, Zatanna and Static should also be sent there! DC has a toxic brand name and no connective universe, those films would be flops in theaters because of this

[Pinsir]

When will WB learn!!? In order to sell your lesser known characters you need a well established and connected universe! Otherwise you get box office duds like Shazam, BOP, and now TSS. Joker and Batman can survive without a shared universe, because they’re the biggest DC characters, none of the others can.

Since they’re still going the “unconnected solo route” they should continue to expected 300M to 600M grossers! That’s probably where Black Adam will end up. Marvel changed the game (like they did in the comics) and now DC is struggling to keep up lol How ironic! I think putting Blue Beetle and Batgirl on HBO was the right call, Zatanna and Static should also be sent there! DC has a toxic brand name and no connective universe, those films would be flops in theaters because of this

Ah yes, Shazam, a true box office bomb that is getting a sequel and a spin off.

[Vordan]

When will WB learn!!? In order to sell your lesser known characters you need a well established and connected universe! Otherwise you get box office duds like Shazam, BOP, and now TSS. Joker and Batman can survive without a shared universe, because they’re the biggest DC characters, none of the others can.

Since they’re still going the “unconnected solo route” they should continue to expected 300M to 600M grossers! That’s probably where Black Adam will end up. Marvel changed the game (like they did in the comics) and now DC is struggling to keep up lol How ironic! I think putting Blue Beetle and Batgirl on HBO was the right call, Zatanna and Static should also be sent there! DC has a toxic brand name and no connective universe, those films would be flops in theaters because of this

Static is also a HBO Max exclusive I believe.

[achilles]

I did - it's because you quoted me/replied to my post that was a response to another poster. Since you responded to a response aimed at another I didn't look at the name and just assumed it was the same poster, sorry.

And yes, we all know that Taxi Driver was a huge inspiration to Joker, at some point that gag has to stop - most of us, and most of the audience, have never and will never see Taxi Driver.

Actually, it wasn't a bad idea. Taking the basic plot from one thing, putting on another, and doing a good twist on it is a staple these days. Do it right like they did, and it can really work. And frankly, its better than a lot of other ideas I've seen around.

[chief12d]

When will WB learn!!? In order to sell your lesser known characters you need a well established and connected universe! Otherwise you get box office duds like Shazam, BOP, and now TSS. Joker and Batman can survive without a shared universe, because they’re the biggest DC characters, none of the others can.

Since they’re still going the “unconnected solo route” they should continue to expected 300M to 600M grossers! That’s probably where Black Adam will end up. Marvel changed the game (like they did in the comics) and now DC is struggling to keep up lol How ironic! I think putting Blue Beetle and Batgirl on HBO was the right call, Zatanna and Static should also be sent there! DC has a toxic brand name and no connective universe, those films would be flops in theaters because of this

Technically WB does have a shared universe, the difference between them and Marvel is Disney makes it a point to make the MCU feel like a TV series where every film acts as an episode in a wider story. Barring a few examples, most MCU projects build on a wider story with a singular end point and set of payoffs. The DCEU has little dynasties that operate within the same universe but are functionally independent.

You have the Suicide Squad corner, your Shazam corner, the Wonder Woman corner, etc. They basically have nothing to do with each other outside some Easter eggs and fan head cannon. So you’re right that DC is putting themselves at a substantial disadvantage when they decide to give a C-list hero a movie without the shared universe and expectation that the story told will “matter” in the near future. People just aren’t gonna care as much. But DC does have a shared universe that is relatively stable. It’s just not the centerpiece of their marketing but it has on average delivered better movies than what they were doing before.

[Vakanai]

When will WB learn!!? In order to sell your lesser known characters you need a well established and connected universe! Otherwise you get box office duds like Shazam, BOP, and now TSS. Joker and Batman can survive without a shared universe, because they’re the biggest DC characters, none of the others can.

Since they’re still going the “unconnected solo route” they should continue to expected 300M to 600M grossers! That’s probably where Black Adam will end up. Marvel changed the game (like they did in the comics) and now DC is struggling to keep up lol How ironic! I think putting Blue Beetle and Batgirl on HBO was the right call, Zatanna and Static should also be sent there! DC has a toxic brand name and no connective universe, those films would be flops in theaters because of this

Yeah, none of those movies flopped because of a lack of cinematic universe connections (never mind Shazam didn't flop at all). Connected or not, MCU movies do well because MCU is a reliable brand - hate to say it, but the DCEU is not reliable. The DCEU has been wildly inconsistent in quality, especially early on. That hurt the brand. Making things more connected has no influence on any of this. They have to rebuild the brand by consistently putting out quality content. They need to re-earn viewer trust, not with connectivity but continued quality.

[Vakanai]

Actually, it wasn't a bad idea. Taking the basic plot from one thing, putting on another, and doing a good twist on it is a staple these days. Do it right like they did, and it can really work. And frankly, its better than a lot of other ideas I've seen around.

Now that I agree with. Joker may have worn its inspirations on its oversized clown shoes, but it wore those inspirations well and was rewarded for it.

[Vakanai]

So you’re right that DC is putting themselves at a substantial disadvantage when they decide to give a C-list hero a movie without the shared universe and expectation that the story told will “matter” in the near future.

I disagree - I think those C-list heroes are at a disadvantage because the DCEU is still struggling to shake off the critical failure of the early DCEU. It isn't that these movies don't "matter" to some huge multi film plan, it's that people remember MoS/BvS/SS/JL and that they might've had some problem or another with BOP and/or WW84, and that's why new films struggle. Connected universe isn't as important as quality, and DCEU has too mixed a history of that.

[Alpha]

Actually, it wasn't a bad idea. Taking the basic plot from one thing, putting on another, and doing a good twist on it is a staple these days. Do it right like they did, and it can really work. And frankly, its better than a lot of other ideas I've seen around.

He put three films together and made one really boring film. Joker didn't have a coherent idea, it was just mumbling towards some kind of point that had already been made by way better movies, and it still forgot what it was trying to say. I don't mind thematic remakes (I love both Goodfellas and Boogie Nights) but you need a reason to steal from other movies, and a point you wanna make. Joker didn't even have a point to make, it was just dumb and lazy, and I was offended by all the people that thought there was value in it. It was like a recycled box full of pig crap.

[Robotman]

I would LOVE to see James Gunn’s next DC project be something like Harley and Ivy vs Gotham. Gotham City Sirens meets The Warriors! Someone like Penguin puts a huge bounty on their heads and they have to fight their way through Gotham and all the different crime territories.

[Vakanai]

He put three films together and made one really boring film. Joker didn't have a coherent idea, it was just mumbling towards some kind of point that had already been made by way better movies, and it still forgot what it was trying to say. I don't mind thematic remakes (I love both Goodfellas and Boogie Nights) but you need a reason to steal from other movies, and a point you wanna make. Joker didn't even have a point to make, it was just dumb and lazy, and I was offended by all the people that thought there was value in it. It was like a recycled box full of pig crap.

In your opinion, obviously. Clearly we differ on this, as do a whole lot of other people. It was a good movie.

[El_Gato]

Ah yes, Shazam, a true box office bomb that is getting a sequel and a spin off.

The spin-off is because of The Rock, not because Shazam was some roaring success. 350M+ for a superhero film today is laughable, but it made money because it had an insanely low budget.

Yeah, none of those movies flopped because of a lack of cinematic universe connections (never mind Shazam didn't flop at all). Connected or not, MCU movies do well because MCU is a reliable brand - hate to say it, but the DCEU is not reliable. The DCEU has been wildly inconsistent in quality, especially early on. That hurt the brand. Making things more connected has no influence on any of this. They have to rebuild the brand by consistently putting out quality content. They need to re-earn viewer trust, not with connectivity but continued quality.

Except they did. A solid cinematic universe that has an overarching story is incredibly important when trying to get your audience to come out and see you non A-list characters. People want to follow a story, see development and characters interact. They want to see consequences form one film effecting anther. That’s a big reason why the MCU is the most successful Hollywood franchise of all time, more than doubling second place, and why it’s done what no other franchise has been able to, have their sequels increase with every installment. A loosely connected cinematic universe would not have gotten the Avengers to 2.8 B in one movie (or 7.8B in only 4 installments)! If Marvel followed the DC route, The Avengers films would have likely equaled the Justice League or Suicide Squad numbers. This loosely connected approach is going to lead to mediocre box offices for all future installments because people want to see build up and a story taking place!

Hopefully Gunn is right about future DCEU films connecting more because if not then DC is in for some bi trouble at the box office

[Alpha]

In your opinion, obviously. Clearly we differ on this, as do a whole lot of other people. It was a good movie.

I don't think anyone that has seen Taxi Driver and specially King of conedy will disagree with me when I say they are way more relevant than Joker. But for the more mainstream audience look at Fight Club and tell me that's not a much better film than Joker.

And tell me right now what message Joker was trying to send

[The True Detective]

I don't think anyone that has seen Taxi Driver and specially King of conedy will disagree with me when I say they are way more relevant than Joker. But for the more mainstream audience look at Fight Club and tell me that's not a much better film than Joker.

And tell me right now what message Joker was trying to send

Why are all of your posts so bizarrely aggressive? Vakanai simply said they think Joker was a good movie and that a lot of people agreed. It made over $1B so I'd say a good number of people actually liked it and think it was a good movie. Sometimes you come off as trying to bait people into arguments over trivial things.