DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[SiegePerilous02]

I think our focus on Nightwing, shouldn't exclude just how beloved a
character, how well known Dick Grayson is as a character. People have
been following his exploits for 80 years. They might not know Nightwing,
but they know Grayson, the same way they do Clark Kent, Bruce Wayne,
Diana Prince.

As for how skillfully WB could produce a decent Nightwing movie that is
another question. I see no reason why it couldn't be tremendous. But this
is the WB we are talking about. They have been so scared of being left
behind by Marvel, that they have produced a series of dreadful films. How
much trust can we really have that they will produce a film that makes
people think, that returns the true values that DC Comics promotes? I am
highly dubious.

I imagine it would be a film very Snyder-esque. My expectations are also not that
high either for the coming Batman film. Now having said that, I am willing to
raise my hand if wrong. But how many times have we been let down by these
movies? Shouldn't we be by this point a little realistic about what we are going to see.
The track record is pretty clear.

I don't think Dick's civilian identity is close to Clark Kent or Bruce or even Diana Prince at this point, but it's sort of in a weird area where they know who Robin is and what his role is. And most of that comes from Dick's forays into other media, so they know him on some level. I guess if anyone was to name a civilian ID for Robin, his name has the highest odds of being named due the Adam West show and BTAS at the very least being so prolific, not to mention some of the recent stuff.

As for their track record, post-Snyder most of their films have been pretty solid to great with WW84 being the only major disappointment. I don't trust them wholesale (not by a long shot), but I wouldn't automatically dread any upcoming movies either.

[godisawesome]

I would add to the discussion about audience intelligence by pointing out that there are often just as many times where someone expresses shocking amount of ignorance about a reboot or new character… but it means nothing in terms fo the film making cash. Those who may have mixed up Batman Begins with B&R weren’t run off. Anyone who’s mixed up the Spidermen hasn’t slowed down the properties resurgence.

Confused audiences are a complete non-factor compared to making an entertaining film. It’s nonsense. And I even oversaturation is a bit of nonsense most of the times it’s brought up as a possibility; while it’s possible to have happen, the modern media landscape is actually friendly to niche diversification provided quality is still good enough - streaming services and geek culture is now the most useful pipeline for marketing.

Characters need sot be assessed as raw assets. Multiple Robins, Batgirls, Flashes, Green Lanterns, etc., are truly only limited by how many successful products can be released with them. The trade off with multiple characters with the same ID is how well someone can sell them to the audience individually, vs whether or not you have the personnel and skill level to do it.

[RobinGA]

I'm dreading every film, until something better appears.
I understand that not everyone feels the same way.

[Nite-Wing]

Most of the DC films released over the last 3 years have been good
I don't know why the internet conspiracy machine works in overdrive to change the narrative and present everything as a mess
I mean obviously I know certain Anti Snyder and Pro Snyder people have their own objectives behind those opinions and want to push their own narratives but in the grand scheme of movies since Justice League
I think DC is on the upswing
They are producing good movies
Obviously The MCU is where they will never be level wise because they lack the decade plus of story beats and slow story progression still now that there's HBO Max productions going forward we can see what WB/DC will do when given the chance to actually set up things instead of rushing to compete in a fanboy driven war

[Pinsir]

I'm dreading every film, until something better appears.
I understand that not everyone feels the same way.

The issue right now is a group of devoted anti-DC fans who will spin every film into a loss. The hyperbolic negativity that surrounds these films is insane.

[Sutekh]

The issue right now is a group of devoted anti-DC fans who will spin every film into a loss. The hyperbolic negativity that surrounds these films is insane.

They are much easier to enjoy in a vacuum. I still rewatch the Green Lantern movie from time to time, and it's heartily reviled. And I still have zero desire to rewatch the Batman flicks by Nolan, because I found them kind of lifeless, apart from some clever lines by Alfred or Lucius. I've got my own issues with the Justice League / B v S stuff, but it's easier to watch and enjoy the whacky elements or scenery-chewing acting of Birds of Prey or The Suicide Squad, or glorious Themiscrya-set scenes in Wonder Woman, without drowning in the negativity of online detractors of DC films in general.

Do I wish they could be better? Do I wish I could get Legion of Super-Heroes (literally my favorite superhero franchise of all time) and JSA and Titans and Young Justice movies as enjoyable as some of the stuff Marvel puts out? Sure, but bitching about it ain't gonna make it so, and I get nothing out of crapping on movies that others love, like that recent Joker film, which did nothing for *me* but clearly wasn't made *for me*.

[Robotman]

Most of the DC films released over the last 3 years have been good
I don't know why the internet conspiracy machine works in overdrive to change the narrative and present everything as a mess
I mean obviously I know certain Anti Snyder and Pro Snyder people have their own objectives behind those opinions and want to push their own narratives but in the grand scheme of movies since Justice League
I think DC is on the upswing
They are producing good movies
Obviously The MCU is where they will never be level wise because they lack the decade plus of story beats and slow story progression still now that there's HBO Max productions going forward we can see what WB/DC will do when given the chance to actually set up things instead of rushing to compete in a fanboy driven war

Since 2018 the only DC movie that, in my opinion, was truly bad was Wonder Woman 84. Everything else has been good to great. The problem is BvS, Suicide Squad (2016), and Jostice League made the brand toxic and they've had to slowing climb out of the muck.

Gunn's Suicide Squad (which is one of my favorite comic book movies!) was a much needed palette cleanser and I think there is a lot of positives on the way like Black Adam, Aquaman 2, and the HBO Max movies and shows.

My concern is the Flash movie. Micheal Keaton's return is going to bring back a lot of the general audience that has given up on DC as a property. If it sucks it'll reaffirm people's opinion of the brand.

[Samm]

Since 2018 the only DC movie that, in my opinion, was truly bad was Wonder Woman 84. Everything else has been good to great. The problem is BvS, Suicide Squad (2016), and Jostice League made the brand toxic and they've had to slowing climb out of the muck.

Gunn's Suicide Squad (which is one of my favorite comic book movies!) was a much needed palette cleanser and I think there is a lot of positives on the way like Black Adam, Aquaman 2, and the HBO Max movies and shows.

My concern is the Flash movie. Micheal Keaton's return is going to bring back a lot of the general audience that has given up on DC as a property. If it sucks it'll reaffirm people's opinion of the brand.

2022 is going to be a HUGE year for DCEU, the biggest since 2016 and one that can change the narrative surrounding Dc on Film. Next year we’re getting Black Adam, The Flash, Aquaman 2 on top of HBO Max shows like Peacemaker and GLC.

[Vakanai]

The mistake here is comparing when Batman Begins came out to now. That was before the big superhero genre boom, general audiences are much more in tune with superhero reboots. Now that we are post Bale and Affleck and onto Pattinson, they very well know all these aren't sequels to each other.




Yeah we can't trust that Hollywood to make the smart decisions, but that doesn't change the fact that there are smart avenues they can possibly take. Although yes, ideally spinning off all Bat-family members from Batman would be ideal, but it's not impossible to do try it without him. They are attempting it with Batgirl and while she's a big icon, she's less iconic and probably less popular than Robin.




Maybe we don't know for a certainty that Harley is that big of a hit with general audiences and she and Nightwing may be on more equal footing with them than we realize. Basically, that means this is all hard to predict.



It's not a joke. We don't know how the films will evolve or what Reeves' plans are, and how he'd execute Robin if he did include him (it should not be forced on him if he doesn't want it, but we don't know what he wants). But you've already had the Robin-less Batman you prefer in the last two cinematic takes. Time for the Batman & Robin fans to possibly have their turn again. It's not fair to automatically dismiss the big mainstream avenues he could appear in (both this and the Caped Crusader cartoon) when there is a wealth of solo Batman material that already exists.



No I'm not assuming that, and I never said a Nightwing or Robin movie would be a 100% sure thing because none of these are sure things. But you saying he is on the same level as D-listers like Hourman or Polka Dot Man when he's shown up in the DCAU, both the Arkham and Injustice games, a starring role in Titans and Young Justice and will be in the Gotham Knights game is transparent hyperbole. He's already had plenty of exposure, he's still definitely in the middle ground but his cache is nowhere near their level.

Let's just cut to the chase - you love Nightwing, I don't, you want him to do great in his solo movies, I don't care - I don't care to the point I don't even want to continue this debate any further because it's just time and energy spent arguing on something I don't give two figs about (and I suspect more of the audience than you care to admit would feel the same). So let's agree to disagree.

Also sorry if that is more curt than it should be, knee pain kept me from sleeping like I should so I'm not putting much thought into word choices right now.

[Vakanai]

I think our focus on Nightwing, shouldn't exclude just how beloved a
character, how well known Dick Grayson is as a character. People have
been following his exploits for 80 years. They might not know Nightwing,
but they know Grayson, the same way they do Clark Kent, Bruce Wayne,
Diana Prince.

As for how skillfully WB could produce a decent Nightwing movie that is
another question. I see no reason why it couldn't be tremendous. But this
is the WB we are talking about. They have been so scared of being left
behind by Marvel, that they have produced a series of dreadful films. How
much trust can we really have that they will produce a film that makes
people think, that returns the true values that DC Comics promotes? I am
highly dubious.

I imagine it would be a film very Snyder-esque. My expectations are also not that
high either for the coming Batman film. Now having said that, I am willing to
raise my hand if wrong. But how many times have we been let down by these
movies? Shouldn't we be by this point a little realistic about what we are going to see.
The track record is pretty clear.

1. Why on earth after they've done all they can to distance themselves from Snyder (the Cut was AT&T, not WB) do you think that any film going forward would be Snyder-esque?
2. Everything about The Batman has looked and sounded great so far.

[SiegePerilous02]

Let's just cut to the chase - you love Nightwing, I don't, you want him to do great in his solo movies, I don't care - I don't care to the point I don't even want to continue this debate any further because it's just time and energy spent arguing on something I don't give two figs about (and I suspect more of the audience than you care to admit would feel the same). So let's agree to disagree.

Also sorry if that is more curt than it should be, knee pain kept me from sleeping like I should so I'm not putting much thought into word choices right now.

If you don't care, why feel the need to make this point yet again? What difference does it make if you truly are apathetic about the character?

But yes, we're not getting anywhere so I guess agree to disagree at this point.

[Vakanai]

If you don't care, why feel the need to make this point yet again? What difference does it make if you truly are apathetic about the character?

But yes, we're not getting anywhere so I guess agree to disagree at this point.

...because it was my last post on the topic? People usually leave with letting it known they're minds ain't changed on the subjects. Least I always do. Last word urge or something, who cares?

[SiegePerilous02]

...because it was my last post on the topic? People usually leave with letting it known they're minds ain't changed on the subjects. Least I always do. Last word urge or something, who cares?

Because it can kind of read as "agree to disagree, but you're still wrong". Instead of just outright dropping it, which I think is what we should do.

[Vakanai]

Because it can kind of read as "agree to disagree, but you're still wrong". Instead of just outright dropping it, which I think is what we should do.

...doesn't agree to disagree by it's very nature always read as "but I still think you're wrong" anyways? But yes, let's drop it.

[John Venus]

I'm dreading every film, until something better appears.
I understand that not everyone feels the same way.

Not dreading in my case. Just unexcited. I would have been excited if Batgirl, Zatanna, Black Canary and Static Shock were announced in 2013. But DC has an established track record with their adaptations and they tend to be either okay or disappointing. I enjoyed 'The Suicide Squad' though. They are going to have to earn the audiences trust and really get people invested in their universe.