DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[Samm]

So? That's Marvel. That's one all consuming, got to watch everything to "keep up" interconnected 3-4 film a year juggernaut. I honestly don't think people can handle two shared universes of that size and scope, and most aren't interested in having a second one. You can't have everyone just copy the biggest thing ever, no one's going to come even. So if you can't match them, why not do what they won't? DC can be the contrast of the MCU, the opposite, do it's own thing. Because as successful as homogeony is, I don't think we all want just another MCU on our hands but with DC characters. We've already got the MCU doing what the MCU does.

Then WB is just going to have to settle for mediocre box office from its DC characters with that approach (ie Shazam, BOP, WW84, TSS). Occasionally they’ll get a Joker or Aquaman but without a shared universe and making audiences follow the story they’ll never be as consistent, as popular or as strong a brand as Marvel

[Vakanai]

Then WB is just going to have to settle for mediocre box office from its DC characters with that approach (ie Shazam, BOP, WW84, TSS). Occasionally they’ll get a Joker or Aquaman but without a shared universe and making audiences follow the story they’ll never be as consistent, as popular or as strong a brand as Marvel

...seriously? Who said anything about them not doing a shared universe? Not me. This isn't even that thread were I already stated my take - that they can do a shared universe and non-shared movies both. The DCEU ain't dead, so where's this coming from? Also, the movies you've cited as mediocre are them doing a shared universe, so saying that not doing a shared universe will doom them to mediocre box office returns, by listing shared universe movies with mediocre box office return is very, very weird.

Edit: You basically just said that if DC doesn't make shared universe films like Shazam, BOP, WW84, TSS they'll be doomed to mediocre box office returns like Shazam, BOP, WW84, TSS...just what?

[Vakanai]

Embracing the multiverse was their best chance to succeed once the Snyder shared universe exploded. The big concern now is if The Flash movie, which seems like it will be the new lynch pin and way forward for DC movies, ends up being terrible. I'm very excited about Aquaman, Black Adam, and the HBO Max projects but I still don't have a lot of faith in Ezra.

I disagree. I think the big thing will be The Batman movie. The Flash might set up the multiverse angle, but The Batman is the movie that's actually set entirely elsewhere in the multiverse and might show what such movies might be like.

[Vordan]

I disagree. I think the big thing will be The Batman movie. The Flash might set up the multiverse angle, but The Batman is the movie that's actually set entirely elsewhere in the multiverse and might show what such movies might be like.

No, Joker already established that Elseworld stories can “work”. What the Flash is doing is attempting to allow for Elseworlds while also still continuing with the universe Snyder set up, albeit on a different direction. If the Flash fails, then once Maoma and Gadot finish their trilogies that will be the end of that take. They’ll probably keep some people around on HBO Max but I expect they’ll just go full standalones like you want on the film side. If there’s another JL movie it would likely be like Mortal in that it would be fresh new actors.

[Johnny]

Didn't Black Widow flop at the box office?

Not a flop per se, but obviously underperformed. Though that had the Disney+ excuse as well, which was why ScarJo sued Disney.

[Vakanai]

No, Joker already established that Elseworld stories can “work”. What the Flash is doing is attempting to allow for Elseworlds while also still continuing with the universe Snyder set up, albeit on a different direction. If the Flash fails, then once Maoma and Gadot finish their trilogies that will be the end of that take. They’ll probably keep some people around on HBO Max but I expect they’ll just go full standalones like you want on the film side. If there’s another JL movie it would likely be like Mortal in that it would be fresh new actors.

Disagree - Joker was just as much "that film" of the year as it was an Elseworlds and had a lot of factors for why it was so must see. We'd need something closer to a normal superhero film outside of the shared universe to really see if it works (even The Batman seems too sure of a thing to be fair). Meanwhile you say The Flash failing would re-doom the DCEU after Gadot and Mamoa finish up, but that's ignoring all the other DCEU films in the pipeline like Black Adam (which is probably gonna be big) and Batgirl and honestly there's like oodles of titles right now in the DCEU (basically everything not The Batman or The Batman related, and black Superman).
I've made no secret I'm not huge on the shared universe phenomena, but your doom and gloom for the DCEU and placing all your hopes on The Flash to keep it going seems...weird to me. The DCEU is safe and ain't going anywhere.

[Pinsir]

Then WB is just going to have to settle for mediocre box office from its DC characters with that approach (ie Shazam, BOP, WW84, TSS). Occasionally they’ll get a Joker or Aquaman but without a shared universe and making audiences follow the story they’ll never be as consistent, as popular or as strong a brand as Marvel

Are you pretending there isn't a global pandemic? Also are we pretending that Black Widow and Shang-chi aren't underperorming as well (they're both likely flops too)?

This obsession with movies having billion dollar returns is also silly and clearly not being applied even handily. Winter Soldier, GotG and Thor 3 were not billion dollar films and most MCU movies aren't either, but every DC movie needs to be a billion dollar film otherwise its treated as a failure.

[Primal Slayer]

Didn't Black Widow flop at the box office?

With COVID and D+, It didn't flop. It didnt even open in China to my knowledge.

[Pinsir]

With COVID and D+, It didn't flop. It didnt even open in China to my knowledge.

Adding D+ is basically an intentional cheat on Disney's part; flops are determined by well a film does in the theatre, not through additional revenue streams. All films also have additional revenue streams and that is why its actually rare for major films to actually produce a deficit, but no one has ever considered adding those to the movies box office total, until Disney basically encouraged people too.

The thing is, not only did Black Widow make less than twice its budget (the go to metric), last year it had an exuberant advertising campaign that included a super bowl ad that was flushed down the toilet when the date was moved. It's possible they 200 million on advertising alone.

[Vakanai]

This obsession with movies having billion dollar returns is also silly and clearly not being applied even handily. Winter Soldier, GotG and Thor 3 were not billion dollar films and most MCU movies aren't either, but every DC movie needs to be a billion dollar film otherwise its treated as a failure.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Glad somebody freaking said it! They way they talk you'd think WB was hemorr*****g money on these DC movies.

[Vakanai]

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Glad somebody freaking said it! They way they talk you'd think WB was hemorr*****g money on these DC movies.

Why was the word that means bleeding out censored? Oh because h a g is in the freaking middle of it...seriously? Isn't there a way to target those three letters only when they're used as a word and not part of a larger word? Who's in charge of that?

[Primal Slayer]

Adding D+ is basically an intentional cheat on Disney's part; flops are determined by well a film does in the theatre, not through additional revenue streams. All films also have additional revenue streams and that is why its actually rare for major films to actually produce a deficit, but no one has ever considered adding those to the movies box office total, until Disney basically encouraged people too.

The thing is, not only did Black Widow make less than twice its budget (the go to metric), last year it had an exuberant advertising campaign that included a super bowl ad that was flushed down the toilet when the date was moved. It's possible they 200 million on advertising alone.

When you have global pandemic, calling something a failure for a new normal is hard to do. 99% of movies "flopped". Black Widow has been a glorified success for a pandemic. Disney knew it wasnt going to be making back the budget. no studio expects to to at this moment.

Some want to compare it to a Pre-pandemic Marvel film which there is no way in hell one can.

[skyvolt2000]

Are you pretending there isn't a global pandemic? Also are we pretending that Black Widow and Shang-chi aren't underperorming as well (they're both likely flops too)?

This obsession with movies having billion dollar returns is also silly and clearly not being applied even handily. Winter Soldier, GotG and Thor 3 were not billion dollar films and most MCU movies aren't either, but every DC movie needs to be a billion dollar film otherwise its treated as a failure.

It's all about resentment towards Marvel.

Some do not like realizing two properties that were reviewed bombed and attacked in Black Panther and Cap Marvel made a billion.
A character that couldn't get a solo is now looking at his third movie in Antman.
A group that featured a character who was MIA in the 90s in Rocket Raccoon is now looking a 3rd movie.

Marvel took their trash and made it work. Because they had no choice.


While Dc had no restrictions and many characters showcased everywhere and the rest is history. With a war between DC and an echo chamber over staying with a universe everyone has made clear they are moving from and using a bitter actor to constantly attack WB.



Like you said we are in a pandemic. Yet you look on tv at some sporting events-you can't tell that we are.
Lets not forget the antics of some of these governors making everything an issue.

We going to see plenty of movies not do as well (based on budgets) because of Covid-19.

Films like Shazam probably don't have that issue.

[Pinsir]

When you have global pandemic, calling something a failure for a new normal is hard to do. 99% of movies "flopped". Black Widow has been a glorified success for a pandemic. Disney knew it wasnt going to be making back the budget. no studio expects to to at this moment.

Some want to compare it to a Pre-pandemic Marvel film which there is no way in hell one can.

I agree, BW and Shang-Chi's under performance does not mean the MCU is dead or dying. My issue has just been people are doing that when it comes to DC films.

[BatmanJones]

Are you pretending there isn't a global pandemic?

Thank you. Screenrant referred to Black Widow as a post-pandemic film. That blew my mind.

We’re not going to be post-pandemic until a lot of folks that have been suckered into believing in conspiracies get their damn shots. I’m not holding my breath. Except beneath my mask as I pass them.

I am resisting the urge to name the side of the political aisle they stand on, but we all know the answer to that. It’s seriously as if they’re pro-covid.

There is no way I’d go to the cinema now, especially in Texas where I sadly live.