DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[SiegePerilous02]

Lmao hate on that cartoon all you want! A generation still grew up with it and an entire generation still holds that as the definitive JL! It’s also one of the most watched things on HBO Max, not bad for some “cartoon”. You’re only saying Nubia is more attention grabbing because you’re a comic book Wonder Woman fan!

And you're only saying Hawkgirl would be a better choice because of your nostalgia for an older cartoon and a weirdly dismissive attitude towards Wonder Woman characters when we're discussing a WW film. It's not like anybody is advocating for WW characters to be inserted into some other franchise.

In no reality is Artemis or Nubia more attention grabbing or popular than Hawkgirl! Just look at the buzz on social media that was created when Alicia Vikander and Eiza Gonzalez were rumored for those roles… Nubia who? Artemis who? Characters that DC forgot about in the 70’s and 90’s or one that’s been in outside media constantly… kind of a no brainer!

Black Panther didn't have a JLU type of appearance before the release of his film, and look how well he did. I don't think people would be dismissive of Nubia in a post-BP world, especially if we marry her to the Wonder Woman brand.

Then I guess you need to visit Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Twitter and Reddit more often if you think that. Certainly more exciting to see Shayera in the DCEU than Donna/Cassie/Artemis/Nubia/Yara lmao

Lol at using Reddit and Youtube comments as a serious metric for anything.

A certain type of nostalgia sucks, the nostalgia for the less diverse 60’s-80’s is problematic. The nostalgia for the more inclusive 2000’s is better. Don’t worry though, in about 20 years their will be nostalgia for the current DC that will replace the 2000’s nostalgia, then I’ll be the grumpy old man yelling at the kids saying how much better things were in my era. That’s just how life is ahha

You say that, but you're advocating for Hawkgirl based on her cartoon appearance where she was a white woman and saying she'd be a better choice over two women of color (Nubia and Artemis) who actually have a reason to be in the film.

Doesn't sound too diverse or inclusive to me.

[Fire Angel]

You say that, but you're advocating for Hawkgirl based on her cartoon appearance where she was a white woman and saying she'd be a better choice over two women of color (Nubia and Artemis) who actually have a reason to be in the film.

Doesn't sound too diverse or inclusive to me.

Well to be fair she has a 0% chance of being casted white for diversity quota.

[SiegePerilous02]

Well to be fair she has a 0% chance of being casted white for diversity quota.

And a diversity quota can still be satisfied with characters who are already POC who already exist and are relevant to the franchise being adapted and having something to add beyond fanservice for a cartoon that ended over a decade ago.

So using Hawkgirl as a diversity requirement for Wonder Woman is stupid.

[I'm a Fish]

Lmao hate on that cartoon all you want! A generation still grew up with it and an entire generation still holds that as the definitive JL! It’s also one of the most watched things on HBO Max, not bad for some “cartoon”. You’re only saying Nubia is more attention grabbing because you’re a comic book Wonder Woman fan!

In no reality is Artemis or Nubia more attention grabbing or popular than Hawkgirl! Just look at the buzz on social media that was created when Alicia Vikander and Eiza Gonzalez were rumored for those roles… Nubia who? Artemis who? Characters that DC forgot about in the 70’s and 90’s or one that’s been in outside media constantly… kind of a no brainer!

And like I said Captain America’s third film featured a team up and so did Thor’s third film! Captain Marvel is getting a team up for her 2nd and so is Dr Strange. Don’t see why Diana can’t get a team up, especially when there is precedence in the comics

Nubia actually would be more attention grabbing if they went with her original origin and made her Diana’s twin sister.

[Holt]

Because sidekicks are lame concept and you don’t really need any of them beside Robin for a Titans film anyway. Rumors saying WW3 will be a female heroes team up film and have lots of action (Supergirl and Hawkgirl showing up apparently)

Not putting any stock in a Grace Randolph rumor.

[Robotman]

And a diversity quota can still be satisfied with characters who are already POC who already exist and are relevant to the franchise being adapted and having something to add beyond fanservice for a cartoon that ended over a decade ago.

So using Hawkgirl as a diversity requirement for Wonder Woman is stupid.

Unfortunately that's not how WB operates when it comes to DC properties.

[chief12d]

Lol, God the Hawks are such an annoying mess



Yeah, the Amazons seem to be considered scene stealers in the DCEU. Nobody had a problem with them in WW84 and their scene in the Snyder Cut got a lot of positive reactions. I think building a bigger plot around them and pushing a powerful POC woman like Nubia (already getting a bigger push in the comics than she's ever had) seems like a no brainer to get interest back. Cashing in on some nostalgia for a cartoon that ended over a decade ago with Hawkgirl seems less attention grabbing than Nubia or Artemis (who should be a woman of color as well).

The underuse of the Amazons in WW84 was one of the chief complaints about the movie across the board. Even people who liked the movie wanted more of them. All WB has to do is lean into that for the end of the trilogy and the movie will instantly be better received, even more if the group's embodied in interesting POC like Nubia and Artemis (who I also believe should/will be made Middle Eastern).

Leaning into the mythology, exploring the other Amazonian factions, and staying away from romance will do more to build interest in WW3 than Hawkgirl. Now it doesn't need to be an either-or situation but the main secondary characters in WW3 should be Amazons. Just like how the main secondary characters in BP were Wakandan and Aquaman's supporting cast was Atlantean. Hawkgirl doesn't have the modern day relevance or connectivity to Wonder Woman to be anything other than a cameo/Easter egg for the final installment. If she were insanely popular then I could see the logic, but she's only a step above Nubia and Artemis in popularity while bringing less to the story.

[Johnny]

A certain type of nostalgia sucks, the nostalgia for the less diverse 60’s-80’s is problematic. The nostalgia for the more inclusive 2000’s is better. Don’t worry though, in about 20 years their will be nostalgia for the current DC that will replace the 2000’s nostalgia, then I’ll be the grumpy old man yelling at the kids saying how much better things were in my era. That’s just how life is ahha

Doesn't that include Hawkgirl as well then? Shayera Hol was created in 1961 which makes her part of that same "problematic nostalgia" you're referring to, yet you use a 20 year old animated show as evidence of her popularity. Isn't that a bit ironic.

[SiegePerilous02]

Leaning into the mythology, exploring the other Amazonian factions, and staying away from romance will do more to build interest in WW3 than Hawkgirl. Now it doesn't need to be an either-or situation but the main secondary characters in WW3 should be Amazons. Just like how the main secondary characters in BP were Wakandan and Aquaman's supporting cast was Atlantean. Hawkgirl doesn't have the modern day relevance or connectivity to Wonder Woman to be anything other than a cameo/Easter egg for the final installment. If she were insanely popular then I could see the logic, but she's only a step above Nubia and Artemis in popularity while bringing less to the story.

Yep. Patty Jenkins said the last shot of Barbara Minerva was meant to hint that her story wasn't done, and Diana returning to the island seems to be the natural trajectory for the trilogy. Even if it was by Snyder, the last shot of her in the Snyder Cut gazing into the distance while holding the arrow the Amazons sent her hints that a return to Paradise Island was in her future. So across two creators, Themyscira is an end point for DCEU Wonder Woman. It's already being set up for a plot with the Amazons and Cheetah, and the new villain that would be the most natural fit and build the most hype is Circe. WW3 is potentially being set up to be filled with a female cast as the focus so I don't see how much room Supergirl or Hawkgirl would have.

Doesn't that include Hawkgirl as well then? Shayera Hol was created in 1961 which makes her part of that same "problematic nostalgia" you're referring to, yet you use a 20 year old animated show as evidence of her popularity. Isn't that a bit ironic.

Yep, the Silver/Bronze Age Hawkgirl was the basis for DCAU Shayera, and she was part of the all white cast of the JL in those comics. I'd be happy to see Hawkgirl get the live action treatment regardless of who was cast as her, and seeing Wonder Woman team up with other female characters would be very cool in another context.

But in her own film, calling for Hawkgirl to appear and stepping over the women of Diana's cast for her benefit (Some of whom are POC themselves) makes the "diversity" thing seem insincere/inconsistent.

[Johnny]

I guess I just find it odd how that cartoon had two white gingers on its roster, yet it's somehow lauded as being "inclusive" just because WW isn't the only female member and Hal Jordan and Barry Allen are not in it, even though that had been the case for years in the comics prior to it as well. All people usually mean by "the right type of nostalgia" is "push my favorites". I honestly don't get the point of people always trying to make it more legit-sounding by using words such as "inclusion" and "diversity" when it's so transparent what they are actually saying. We're fans, not politicians. lol

[Fire Angel]

don't get the point of people always trying to make it more legit-sounding by using words such as "inclusion" and "diversity" when it's so transparent what they are actually saying. We're fans, not politicians. lol

You can thank Twitter for that.

[SiegePerilous02]

I guess I just find it odd how that cartoon had two white gingers on its roster, yet it's somehow lauded as being "inclusive" just because WW isn't the only female member and Hal Jordan and Barry Allen are not in it, even though that had been the case for years in the comics prior to it as well. All people usually mean by "the right type of nostalgia" is "push my favorites". I honestly don't get the point of people always trying to make it more legit-sounding by using words such as "inclusion" and "diversity" when it's so transparent what they are actually saying. We're fans, not politicians. lol

I think putting John on the team was a good call and worked out, but it's not the only call they could have made. It's not like Hal and Barry being on the team means other moves like adding Vixen (or more women in general), Ryan Choi, Steel, Aztek, etc would be automatically prevented from happening.

And while the founding members having an additional woman is a good idea by itself, JL/U wrote Diana terribly in general and she and Shayera disliked each other for the first few seasons. So it's not like it is a total "yay feminism!" moment lol.

[El_Gato]

Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl teaming together appeals to me far more than any of the Wonder Girls, a part from Yara Flor, she’s interesting! Also since when is Artemis a POC? She’s Whiter than Hawkgirl! You have a point with Nubia but I’d rather get Vixen! Diana teaming up with Shayera and Mari would be awesome, then you can successfully spin the other two off in ways you probably couldn’t with Nubia, unless that Amazon movie happens.

Give me a team up!

[Johnny]

I think putting John on the team was a good call and worked out, but it's not the only call they could have made. It's not like Hal and Barry being on the team means other moves like adding Vixen (or more women in general), Ryan Choi, Steel, Aztek, etc would be automatically prevented from happening.

And while the founding members having an additional woman is a good idea by itself, JL/U wrote Diana terribly in general and she and Shayera disliked each other for the first few seasons. So it's not like it is a total "yay feminism!" moment lol.

I honestly forgot about that. lol Haven't seen the show in so long I don't remember a lot of the interactions. Ironically the first thing that usually comes to mind when I think of JLU is "WonderBat". How sad is that. Though what they did to Hawkman is a close second.

Now I'm not going to sit here and act like I'm not grateful for growing up during that time, but for all the good things the DCAU did, every once in a while it would do something that would make me have a migraine. I think Batman Beyond was the show that I loved the most with little to no complaints about it. Well there was that one episode where Ra's al Ghul took over Talia's body but we don't talk about that.

[SiegePerilous02]

Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl teaming together appeals to me far more than any of the Wonder Girls, a part from Yara Flor, she’s interesting! Also since when is Artemis a POC? She’s Whiter than Hawkgirl! You have a point with Nubia but I’d rather get Vixen! Diana teaming up with Shayera and Mari would be awesome, then you can successfully spin the other two off in ways you probably couldn’t with Nubia, unless that Amazon movie happens.

Give me a team up!

Considering her region of origin and when we get her properly drawn, no. No she is not.

ArtemisEarthOne.jpg

ArtemisFull.jpg

Vixen should be getting another media push, and a general team up movie with all the ladies would be awesome. But she and Shayera have **** all to do with Diana's story, unlike Nubia and Artemis. Putting them in her movie to appeal to the nostalgia of a cartoon that treated Wonder Woman very poorly to begin with is unnecessary and a bit insulting to the icon we're looking to have them ride the coattails of.

I honestly forgot about that. lol Haven't seen the show in so long I don't remember a lot of the interactions. Ironically the first thing that usually comes to mind when I think of JLU is "WonderBat". How sad is that. Though what they did to Hawkman is a really close second.

Diana was really bad in that show, but I think Hawkman may take the cake for worst treatment. Man, who did he piss off on the production staff?