DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[Castling]

Still saying the cape is in your closet when that’s blatantly not true? Dunno if he’s just putting on a brave face, keeping quiet because he does actually have plans, or outright delusional. If he’s not in Flash he’s done. Even if he is in Flash he probably is still done unless he’s content to play sidekick to Supergirl, there will never be another Cavill solo film again. We’re coming up on 10 years since MoS and Snyder had him kill Zod again in BvS and help kill Steppenwolf in JL. Whatever chance there was to “explore” that is done.

Don't forget the African warlord he killed to save Lois in the first act of BvS.

[Robotman]

If Black Adam makes a big profit I can definitely see WB trying to set up a Superman vs Black Adam movie. If it’s something the Rock really wants to happen and assuming that Black Adam has become a big time property in a few years, I can see them trying to get something done with Cavill. The fact that they are acquaintances off camera and they have the same argent would help things along.

Unfortunately that’s the only way we’d ever get another Superman that wasn’t an Elseworld or a heavy handed social commentary with Kal as just the prop.

As a Superman fan I am looking forward to the Val Zod project. So at least there’s that.

[John Venus]

Still saying the cape is in your closet when that’s blatantly not true? Dunno if he’s just putting on a brave face, keeping quiet because he does actually have plans, or outright delusional. If he’s not in Flash he’s done. Even if he is in Flash he probably is still done unless he’s content to play sidekick to Supergirl, there will never be another Cavill solo film again. We’re coming up on 10 years since MoS and Snyder had him kill Zod again in BvS and help kill Steppenwolf in JL. Whatever chance there was to “explore” that is done.

He is doing really well outside of the WB sphere. Between 'The Witcher' and Mission Impossible, he has the most successful career out of all the live action Supermen. I think he's just being a pro and keeping his options open should WB ask him to come back again.

So Superman needs to kill someone, just to try it out and see if he likes it, and now has a reason not to kill? So he would have gone on a killing spree then if he hadn't killed Zod, because he never would have had a reason not to, and hey, killing is fun for Clark otherwise?!? Interesting take on the character....

Yeah, I don't mind Superman killing in a situation that warrants but it's flawed if you're using it to explain why he has a no kill rule.

Captain Marvel can't catch a break. First he loses his name and now he might lose his enemy. WB still has no clue what to do with these characters.

His movies are doing pretty well. Shazam, Aquaman, WW and Gunn's Suicide Squad are what's holding the remnants of the DCEU up. This is the first time in almost a century that it felt like Captain Marvel/Shazam is getting ahead of Superman (at least in the live action film department). I just wish we can get some interactions between Billy and WW and Aquaman.

I don't mind Black Adam becoming more of a DCU rogue. That's been the case since he appeared in Johns JSA and later the 52 weekly series. Billy has plenty of rogues of his own. He just needs more cross overs.

I could see them skipping Donna because I don't think WB wants to A. Give people hope we're getting a DCEU Titans and B. Make Diana a mentor figure. Doesn't help that Donna's white, so it's not like she can ride the diversity wave we're seeing right now in superhero films (unless they racebend). If they try to expand the role of the Amazons I suspect they'll go the Nubia and Artemis route in a parallel to the MCU's The Marvels.

I don't think Donna necessarily has to be white and given that DCEU WW has been active since WW1, it would be easy to do Donna's original origin. However, it should have been done in the second movie not the third one.

I think it's a safe bet that the third movie will include some kind of legacy character for WW. I think the idea of it having a lot of superheroines in it is just your usual internet rumor mongering.

Cassie would be easy to do since she is another daughter of Zeus. Yara is from a whole tribe of Amazons and involves a different mythology entirely but I wouldn't put it past WB to introduce her there. Nubia could be introduced as Diana's 'lost sister' and I guess Phobos and Deimos could serve as the villains..

I guess they could a 'War of the Amazons' type story wherein Diana discovers other Amazonian Tribes and they all come into conflict with each other and Diana has to stop the war between them. That would allow Artemis, Nubia and Yara to be brought in pretty easy, skipping the Wonder Girl's altogether.

Diana was really bad in that show, but I think Hawkman may take the cake for worst treatment. Man, who did he piss off on the production staff?

Nobody hated him.

They were just adapting what was in vogue in the comics at the time. Geoff Johns work on Hawkman centered on Carter chasing Kendra and trying to convince her that they were reincarnated soul mates who were separated. The only difference is, the comic story line ultimately went nowhere but on the show, Carter eventually realized he was being a creep and backed off.

The Hawks are basically two peas in a pod when it comes to teams. They make a good Battle Couple when it's a solo title but they have the same power and same abilities. Hence why most creators opt for using one instead of the other. The Satellite era JL and JL United opted to use Hawkman (though the former did use Shayera at times) while JLU and Scott Snyder's JL used Shayera and Kendra respectively. Both Hawkman and Hawkgirl/woman have dated other people besides each other at various points in their history so Shayera dating John isn't that unique either and it works for that universe.

[Frontier]

Don't forget the African warlord he killed to save Lois in the first act of BvS.

I think the implication was Superman didn't actually kill him but it was like Wonder Woman fighting those terrorists in the Snyder Cut where the idea of Superheroes showing restraint is just not how Snyder operates.

Nobody hated him.

They were just adapting what was in vogue in the comics at the time. Geoff Johns work on Hawkman centered on Carter chasing Kendra and trying to convince her that they were reincarnated soul mates who were separated. The only difference is, the comic story line ultimately went nowhere but on the show, Carter eventually realized he was being a creep and backed off.

The Hawks are basically two peas in a pod when it comes to teams. They make a good Battle Couple when it's a solo title but they have the same power and same abilities. Hence why most creators opt for using one instead of the other. The Satellite era JL and JL United opted to use Hawkman (though the former did use Shayera at times) while JLU and Scott Snyder's JL used Shayera and Kendra respectively. Both Hawkman and Hawkgirl/woman have dated other people besides each other at various points in their history so Shayera dating John isn't that unique either and it works for that universe.

Carter chasing Kendra was really more of an early thing in the JSA that he got over, and then in the actual Hawkman book they were partners with a will they or won't they dynamic.

[Lightning Rider]

Don't forget the African warlord he killed to save Lois in the first act of BvS.

Again, it's absolutely not reasonable to believe he killed a civilian on purpose like that. Ridiculous.

[SiegePerilous02]

Again, it's absolutely not reasonable to believe he killed a civilian on purpose like that. Ridiculous.

The Snyder movies aim to have "weighty" consequences to superhero violence, even against non-powered opponents. This is why Wonder Woman is incapable of stopping the terrorists in the Snyder Cut without killing them or severely injuring them when throwing them into walls and leaving blood stains from where their heads made collision. Snyder thought it was more realistic that way.

So it'd be weird to pretend that Superman either tackling that dude through the wall or grabbing him as he flew and yanking him behind him wouldn't result in severe injury or death. Unless suddenly superhero powers work like they do in the comics, until the plot needs them to stop doing that.

[John Venus]

I think the implication was Superman didn't actually kill him but it was like Wonder Woman fighting those terrorists in the Snyder Cut where the idea of Superheroes showing restraint is just not how Snyder operates.

Carter chasing Kendra was really more of an early thing in the JSA that he got over, and then in the actual Hawkman book they were partners with a will they or won't they dynamic.

The 'will they or won't they' dynamic was just a continuation of that. With Carter still convinced they were reincarnated eternal lovers and Kendra not sure whether it was her own feelings or Shiera's. It was only during her death in Blackest Night that she admitted that she loved Carter.

Either way, my point is, JLU wrapped up the plot line really quickly and didn't drag it out like the comics did.

[Lightning Rider]

The Snyder movies aim to have "weighty" consequences to superhero violence, even against non-powered opponents. This is why Wonder Woman is incapable of stopping the terrorists in the Snyder Cut without killing them or severely injuring them when throwing them into walls and leaving blood stains from where their heads made collision. Snyder thought it was more realistic that way.

So it'd be weird to pretend that Superman either tackling that dude through the wall or grabbing him as he flew and yanking him behind him wouldn't result in severe injury or death. Unless suddenly superhero powers work like they do in the comics, until the plot needs them to stop doing that.

I think it's clear Snyder sees Wonder Woman as having slightly different ethics to Superman.

But all the same, the "consequences" of Superman's appearance in the desert weren't constructed around that guy being smashed through a wall. They were around his appearance coinciding with a bunch of people being burned that he didn't kill. It doesn't make sense for him to be like "I only killed one of those guys!" Which of course he didn't. He says "I didn't kill those men."

It's quite conceivable that he's smashing the wall himself while holding the guy. If he flew at him in a push motion at that speed, he wouldn't just push him through a wall, he'd sever him in half. Which clearly didn't happen.

[Frontier]

The 'will they or won't they' dynamic was just a continuation of that. With Carter still convinced they were reincarnated eternal lovers and Kendra not sure whether it was her own feelings or Shiera's. It was only during her death in Blackest Night that she admitted that she loved Carter.

Either way, my point is, JLU wrapped up the plot line really quickly and didn't drag it out like the comics did.

Well, they had hooked up prior to that but that was the first time Kendra had actually confessed her feelings.

I don't think anyone wanted them to drag it out on JLU, but it wasn't a great use of Hawkman in my opinion.

I think it's clear Snyder sees Wonder Woman as having slightly different ethics to Superman.

But all the same, the "consequences" of Superman's appearance in the desert weren't constructed around that guy being smashed through a wall. They were around his appearance coinciding with a bunch of people being burned that he didn't kill. It doesn't make sense for him to be like "I only killed one of those guys!" Which of course he didn't. He says "I didn't kill those men."

It's quite conceivable that he's smashing the wall himself while holding the guy. If he flew at him in a push motion at that speed, he wouldn't just push him through a wall, he'd sever him in half. Which clearly didn't happen.

I think it's fair to see, the way it was shown, that he was just ramming a guy through multiple walls. Maybe if you analyze it in-depth you can come up with a less severe outcome, but I can see why people would immediately assume otherwise.

It's a fault in Snyder's execution in my opinion.

[SiegePerilous02]

I think its the intention of the film for Superman to not have killed him and for him to be telling the truth when he says "I didn't kill anybody."

But it happens so fast and is kind of sloppily done that a lot of people had a "what the **** is talking about?" reaction when Clark said that later. The fact that it's even being discussed as vague when it should be a very clear as a plot point isn't a good sign.

I think it's clear Snyder sees Wonder Woman as having slightly different ethics to Superman.

Probably. But even so we're having to guess because Superman's ethics aren't very thoroughly explored either.

I also don't think he understands her ethics. Even as someone who is willing to kill when necessary, it's usually not against opponents who are pretty much ants to her that she can dispatch quickly.

[Castling]

I think it's clear Snyder sees Wonder Woman as having slightly different ethics to Superman.

But all the same, the "consequences" of Superman's appearance in the desert weren't constructed around that guy being smashed through a wall. They were around his appearance coinciding with a bunch of people being burned that he didn't kill. It doesn't make sense for him to be like "I only killed one of those guys!" Which of course he didn't. He says "I didn't kill those men."

It's quite conceivable that he's smashing the wall himself while holding the guy. If he flew at him in a push motion at that speed, he wouldn't just push him through a wall, he'd sever him in half. Which clearly didn't happen.

You're overthinking it. Snyder isn't that complex. He's the guy who said it's naive to think people don't get killed when dealing with superheroes.
Hence, it's highly likely that Superman put a man through several walls instead of using superspeed to disarm him.

[John Venus]

Well, they had hooked up prior to that but that was the first time Kendra had actually confessed her feelings.

I don't think anyone wanted them to drag it out on JLU, but it wasn't a great use of Hawkman in my opinion.

Neither was it in the comic books. People were okay with it back then simply because Hawkman had been declared 'radioactive' up until that point.

But the show can't be blamed for adapting what was going on in the comics and they at least had Carter acknowledge his shortcomings and move on.

Now that I think about, the Johns led Hawkman ongoing became a mess after a certain point. I recall a storyline wherein Carter got beaten and tortured just so he would be sufficiently edgy enough to demand a leadership role so he could go to war against Black Adam in the JSA title. It struck me as such a forced way of creating a conflict.

[Frontier]

Neither was it in the comic books. People were okay with it back then simply because Hawkman had been declared 'radioactive' up until that point.

But the show can't be blamed for adapting what was going on in the comics and they at least had Carter acknowledge his shortcomings and move on.

Now that I think about, the Johns led Hawkman ongoing became a mess after a certain point. I recall a storyline wherein Carter got beaten and tortured just so he would be sufficiently edgy enough to demand a leadership role so he could go to war against Black Adam in the JSA title. It struck me as such a forced way of creating a conflict.

I mean, I felt like the comics went a lot more in-depth with Carter's personality and heroism than we got in JLU, because the idea was to sell his character to people again after Johns brought him back and tried to reconcile the Hawks again. In JLU he felt like a last-minute addition just to have him in there.

One of the arcs of Johns' Hawkman run was Carter learning to control and manage his anger and savage side as Hawkman in his new life and in the modern world.

[Vordan]

Looks like Hawkman might finally be getting more love in outside media with Black Adam. Assuming he doesn’t get ripped in half by Adam to show what a badass Black Adam is.

[Frontier]

Looks like Hawkman might finally be getting more love in outside media with Black Adam. Assuming he doesn’t get ripped in half by Adam to show what a badass Black Adam is.

He is leading the team, so other than Atom-Smasher and Adrianna I think his dynamic with Adam will be the most significant.