DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[Frontier]

Yeah I think they still have an edge animation wise especially with the Batman and Superman shows coming up. WW getting a game is an encouraging sign, but Marvel did already achieve a success besides Spider-Man with Guardians. I’d say video games wise they’re fairly evenly matched. Films though? I look at the future lineup and I don’t see a single film that could possibly equal Endgame or NWH, nor do what we know about their future plans makes me think they ever will. We’re likely getting a JL movie with a lineup of:

Wonder Woman
Supergirl
Batgirl
Flash
Aquaman
Shazam
And maybe Black Adam?

That’s such a huge divergence from what people expect from JL that I don’t think it’s going to perform well, assuming of course they can even get Gal back for it.

Yeah, it's extremely hard to compete with the MCU at this point. I think we can just hope WB get some semblance of their house in order and some plan and just stick to it.

[Pinsir]

I'm just going to straight up say it, but this attitude of venting and screaming absolutely turns this place into a toxic cesspool. "OMG! A spiderman movie made money!" Yeah, fun fact, the least successful live-action Spiderman movie (AS2) made 200 million+ more money than the three superhero movies that Disney published this year.

> "Uh, Hawkeye made Arrow look bad!" What? These serve entirely different audiences and from what I heard, Hawkeye got bad ratings. From what I've heard none of the MCU shows have been major hits, with except maybe WandaVision. Those shows also cost a lot, 25 million per episode. It cost less than that to produce all Squid Game and that show had more viewers than Disney+ subscribers.
> "Disney has infinite money!" Which is why they to announce a Shang-chi sequel almost 4 months after the movie released and once the Disney+ numbers were available. I've hinted at this before, but I'll say it now, Black Widow and Eternals flopped, Shang-chi barely broke even if then. Yes, Black Widow flopped, flop refers to a failure in box office gross, you can't change a century old definition to suite your interests, MCU fans.

[Vordan]

I've hinted at this before, but I'll say it now, Black Widow and Eternals flopped, Shang-chi barely broke even if then. Yes, Black Widow flopped, flop refers to a failure in box office gross, you can't change a century old definition to suite your interests, MCU fans.

Indeed but that doesn’t really make our situation any better lol. If MCU movies that have the power of the MCU brand behind them to prop them up are still struggling, what does that mean for DC’s upcoming projects that mainly star B & C-Listers with the occasional racebend too? Peacemaker is not going to put up large numbers, and I frankly don’t think Batgirl will either. Black Adam, Aquaman, and Blue Beetle are the only three I think have a chance of doing great, with Adam mainly succeeding because it’s the Rock, Beetle because it’s the first Latino superhero movie, and Aquaman 2 being more dumb fun.

But Flash just doesn’t look great and that’s a problem because it seems to be the BvS of the lineup in terms of WB pinning all their plans on it to set up the future. If no one goes to see the movie that’s setting up Supergirl, they probably aren’t going to see Supergirl either. If Flash is setting up a Multiversial JL and it flops, no one is going to go see their JL movie either. Real problem is that Flash doesn’t seem to be setting up a “classic” universe like people want. Instead of getting a Batman and Superman who aren’t killers we just aren’t going to get a Batman and Superman at all.

[The Kid]

Yeah I think they still have an edge animation wise especially with the Batman and Superman shows coming up. WW getting a game is an encouraging sign, but Marvel did already achieve a success besides Spider-Man with Guardians. I’d say video games wise they’re fairly evenly matched. Films though? I look at the future lineup and I don’t see a single film that could possibly equal Endgame or NWH, nor do what we know about their future plans makes me think they ever will. We’re likely getting a JL movie with a lineup of:

Wonder Woman
Supergirl
Batgirl
Flash
Aquaman
Shazam
And maybe Black Adam?

That’s such a huge divergence from what people expect from JL that I don’t think it’s going to perform well, assuming of course they can even get Gal back for it.

Yeah with the fantastic Harley Quinn show and other solid entries like YJ and their animated film offerings and upcoming shows, DC still has the edge in animation. That said, if we include Marvel as a brand, they do have the unbeatable Spiderverse films but that's only really one project so in that sector, they're being carried by Sony

DC was ahead in video games for a while but I think it's even now. Suicide Squad/Wonder Woman/Gotham Knights vs. Spider-Man 2/Wolverine/Midnight Suns with a few unannounced Marvel and DC projects so I'd call it a wash.

Honestly, it's only live action films where they are getting embarrassed and that happens to be the most important medium when it comes to pop culture

[Primal Slayer]

I dont know why WB/DC doesnt lean more on the likes of Bruce Timm and co. or Greg Weisman and co. when it comes to live action. Have them be apart of the plotting of the universe, stories, etc...seems like a no-brainer. Instead they want to get people who want to change their characters and try to make a statement piece.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

I think as DC fans, we just have to accept the fact that Marvel will always be the dominant force in both comics and movies over DC. To continue to deny this is only going to lead to lots of frustration.

Everything that Marvel did right in building their comic universe, they did right with their movie universe -- beginning with a single voice at the top that created a solid foundation for everything else to follow -- whether it be Stan Lee as EIC of the comics or Kevin Feige as EP of the MCU.

DC handles its movies the same way they handle their comics -- disorganized, always retrenching and course correcting, and always trying to make themselves into another Marvel. Personally, as much as I like the DC characters and the comics I grew up with, I know they can never create a cohesive universe with the same internal consistency and lived-in feel that Marvel did in both the comics and the movies.

The MCU is now 13 years old. To older fans like me, that might not seem a long time, but to a kid who was 10 years old back in 2008, he is now 23 years old and has gone from being in the 5th grade to being a college graduate and out in the workforce. He's grown up with Marvel. A lot of his childhood memories going to the movies with friends and family are centered around Marvel movies -- not with DC. It will be his experiences with the MCU that he'll share with his children, and that multi-generational aspect is a very powerful thing that really only Star Wars previously had at that level. I'm so glad Stan Lee got to see his characters achieve that international success he was always chasing.

All of that said, I don't think things are so dire at DC. I just think with DC, they don't have the same goodwill that Marvel has, so people look at their offerings on a case-by-case basis. A DC movie can't piggyback off the success of the previous ones because the goodwill isn't there. However, they will still do well enough to exist, but it just won't have the synergistic effect of a shared universe.

Again, it mirrors what happened in the comics industry so exactly, it's astonishing, but as I said at the outset, we have to accept this because Marvel is so firmly entrenched at number one in both comics and movies that nothing will really ever change that.

I think a better goal regarding the DCEU is just to hope for a string of good movies that do well enough at the box office that they keep making more and don't even think about competing with Marvel for box office dominance because it's wasted energy.

[Vordan]

The Reevesverse is not going to be connected to any of the Multiverse stuff DC is doing

[skyvolt2000]

Indeed but that doesn’t really make our situation any better lol. If MCU movies that have the power of the MCU brand behind them to prop them up are still struggling, what does that mean for DC’s upcoming projects that mainly star B & C-Listers with the occasional racebend too? Peacemaker is not going to put up large numbers, and I frankly don’t think Batgirl will either. Black Adam, Aquaman, and Blue Beetle are the only three I think have a chance of doing great, with Adam mainly succeeding because it’s the Rock, Beetle because it’s the first Latino superhero movie, and Aquaman 2 being more dumb fun.

How about we accept we are in a pandemic that is screwing up stuff left and right?

Along with a now toxic climate that is trying to derail everything. Especially those projects that star POC or LGBTQA or women as leads.
Because SOMEBODY has to have an issue with it that does not involve the script or production.

Meanwhile as Pinsir said stuff like Squid Game is being made cheap and at times WAY better than what DC and Marvel are tossing out without the toxic entitlement behavior.

And how Shang and Widow perform is NONE of the business of DC. NONE. Marvel does not tell DC what to do nor does DC tell Marvel what to do.

Black Panther made a BILLION. Where is the DC black lead movie at??

Dc needs to WORRY about DC.

If MONEY is the issue-you got a HUGE library of characters. HUGE.

What can be made for under $100 million? $50 million?

What could be made to ride out this pandemic and give DC time to get the BEST script for a Superman or WW or Justice League?

Lets not forget Disney is screwing themselves with Disney + as is HBO Max and Paramount Plus.

I am NOT going to pay extra for those. When I know 90% of that stuff will be a dvd or blue ray and at the public library to check out.

[skyvolt2000]

i think a better goal regarding the dceu is just to hope for a string of good movies that do well enough at the box office that they keep making more and don't even think about competing with marvel for box office dominance because it's wasted energy.

this......

[Lightning Rider]

DC fans just have to bide our time IMO. This messy iteration of the cinematic universe is coming to an end within the next 5 years. It sucks we probably won't get a classic JL roster in a long time, but I don't think WB is just going to sit on those properties. Our day will come, successful cowd-pleasing DC movies will come again, even if they aren't as expansive as the MCU.

[Primal Slayer]

We want what we cant have. Of course if they give us actual good content that will calm fans down for a bit but there will always be that yearning for more now that we've seen it can be done successfully.

Overall this is probably the best time to ever be a comic fan in general whether you are DC or Marvel. Both are thriving in different ways. WB is known to shelve things for x amount of time when it doesnt work out. Green Lantern failed and its been 10 years and the character hasnt seen the light of day in live action since. By the time the show gets off the ground, it'll have been 11/12 years. So it'll likely be another 10 years until we get a new JL movie so...2027 (ew). Unless all of these new films coming out hit it out the park and someone comes in and is willing to take another chance at it (who knows how WB/DC will change when Discovery takes over)

[mace11]

> "Uh, Hawkeye made Arrow look bad!" What? These serve entirely different audiences and from what I heard, Hawkeye got bad ratings. From what I've heard none of the MCU shows have been major hits, with except maybe WandaVision. Those shows also cost a lot, 25 million per episode. It cost less than that to produce all Squid Game and that show had more viewers than Disney+ subscribers.
> "Disney has infinite money!" Which is why they to announce a Shang-chi sequel almost 4 months after the movie released and once the Disney+ numbers were available. I've hinted at this before, but I'll say it now, Black Widow and Eternals flopped, Shang-chi barely broke even if then. Yes, Black Widow flopped, flop refers to a failure in box office gross, you can't change a century old definition to suite your interests, MCU fans.

What are you talking about?
Each mcu show is a major hit.
Falcon and winter soldier had more views then wandavision,loki had more views then falcon and winter soldier.
The only ones that had lower views was what if and that is a mcu cartoon.

Hawkeye premiere was lower then other live action disney plus shows but it was still higher then mandalorian season 1 and season 2.
Anyway we have wait and see how the next episodes did.

Hawkeye did not have bad ratings.
Just look at the rt scores.

HAWKEYE 92% AUDIENCE 90%

Black widow flopped at the box offie but if you combine the D plus money overall it did not flop.
Eternals is still questionable but if does end up flopping in the end is not a hard flop like ww84 and the suicide squad.
Shang chi is successful and clearly broke even etc..

[Primal Slayer]

I'm just going to straight up say it, but this attitude of venting and screaming absolutely turns this place into a toxic cesspool. "OMG! A spiderman movie made money!" Yeah, fun fact, the least successful live-action Spiderman movie (AS2) made 200 million+ more money than the three superhero movies that Disney published this year.

> "Uh, Hawkeye made Arrow look bad!" What? These serve entirely different audiences and from what I heard, Hawkeye got bad ratings.

> "Disney has infinite money!" Which is why they to announce a Shang-chi sequel almost 4 months after the movie released and once the Disney+ numbers were available.

Arrow/Hawkeye serve the same exact audience. And my memory may be a bit vague but Im pretty sure that Disney announced Shang-Chi 2 in the end credits of the movie.

[charliehustle415]

Well, well, well

https://bleedingcool.com/tv/hbo-max-...eroes-tv-show/

Some of you are not going to be happy about this but there is a LofSH showing in development by Bendis

[Robotman]

Black Adam and Aquaman 2 will do fine. It’s the Flash movie that is super concerning and could be another BvS situation. The appeal of having Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman in the same movie brought in a big opening weekend and had everyone’s attention, but the film (especially the theatrical cut) was so bad that it made the DC brand toxic for years. Michael Keaton returning as Batman should once again bring the eyes of the movie watching world onto the DCU. but if the actual Flash film is bad it could reaffirm the consensus that DC is a shitty product. But the silver lining would probably be the end of Ezra Miller as The Flash.