DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[mace11]

Top critic big screen comicbook superhero movies list.

If you go by RT critic scores the all top 2 superhero big screen movies are -
Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse 97%

Black Panther 96%

If you go by RT critic scores the live action top one is -
Black Panther 96%

The dark knight movies are not even on that list.Not even the dark knight.

If you go by RT average rating critic scores the top superhero big screen movies is-

Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse
8.80 out of 10 average rating

The Dark Knight
8.60 out of 10 average rating

If you go by RT average rating critic scores the top superhero big screen live action movies is-
The Dark Knight

The other 2 dark knight movies on not even in the top 3 in any of those lists.

[Holt]

Black Adam and Aquaman 2 will do fine. It’s the Flash movie that is super concerning and could be another BvS situation. The appeal of having Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman in the same movie brought in a big opening weekend and had everyone’s attention, but the film (especially the theatrical cut) was so bad that it made the DC brand toxic for years. Michael Keaton returning as Batman should once again bring the eyes of the movie watching world onto the DCU. but if the actual Flash film is bad it could reaffirm the consensus that DC is a shitty product. But the silver lining would probably be the end of Ezra Miller as The Flash.

As long as the movie is not a train wreck I think it’ll do fine. The stuff the director has said indicates it’ll have a more audience friendly tone than BVS or Man of Steel, so I don’t think it’ll be nearly as divisive.

[John Venus]

Yep, that's my overall stance on the whole Marvel vs. DC thing.

Marvel has better plateaus and higher peaks (Dark Pheonix Saga, Infinity Gauntlet, Born Again, Kraven's Last Hunt), but their work can be insanely inconsistent, but people eat it up regardless.

DC doesn't have output that's nearly as high, but I find their overall output is way more consistent. For example, Jonah Hex and Doom Patrol is just overall better written than the Punisher, Wolverine stuff....but more people will read the latter no matter what.

Marvel has better crossover events; Infinity Gauntlet, Secret Wars, Dark Pheonix and despite it's wildly fluctuating quality Disassembled, House of M, Civil War, Secret Invasion, Dark Reign and Rebirth is just one gigantic decade and a half long story arc.

OTOH, COIE, Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis (which should have never been billed as a Crisis cross over in the first place) which feels weird and random.

DC's most memorable story arcs are best limited to their individual franchises::

Batman: Death of the Family, Knightfall, Contagion/Legacy, NML.

Green Lantern: Emerald Twilight, Rebirth, Sinestro Corps War, Blackest Night, First Lantern,

Superman: Death of Superman

Wonder Woman: Gods and Mortals, War of the Gods, the story arc where Artemis took over, Hiketia, Sacrifice and hopefully the upcoming 'Trial of the Amazons'.

DC has tons of famous, iconic, storylines though...many of which have been adapted in animated movies.

Which ones are you talking about? All we've getting are Superman and Batman focused adaptations. If not that, then JL focused stuff. The only exception was the Flashpoint movie.

[Holt]

As for Marvel’s future, they’ll probably be fine. They’re currently in, to use a sports analogy, a rebuilding year. They lost two of their big marquee heroes in Iron Man and Captain America, and 2021 was (theatrically at least) mostly dedicated to introducing newer properties (even Black Widow was clearly a launch pad for the character of Yelena Belova). Eternals was a flop and Shang-Chi only a modest hit, but there’s an observable “Avengers bump” trend where the solo heroes see big increases in the sequels after they appear in a big crossover. Given Shang-Chi’s mid-credits scene was clearly setting the character up to join the Avengers, he’ll be fine. And then moving into next year they’ve got the return of Thor and Doctor Strange, the latter of whom is likely gonna see the Avengers bump I just mentioned. I don’t think they’re in any danger of being overtaken in the near future.

Like someone else said, you’ll be a lot happier when you stop trying to make it a competition and just enjoy DC’s movies on their own merits.

[Frontier]

Marvel has better crossover events; Infinity Gauntlet, Secret Wars, Dark Pheonix and despite it's wildly fluctuating quality Disassembled, House of M, Civil War, Secret Invasion, Dark Reign and Rebirth is just one gigantic decade and a half long story arc.

OTOH, COIE, Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis (which should have never been billed as a Crisis cross over in the first place) which feels weird and random.

Legends was pretty solid too. There's also Invasion!, and I'm not sure how stuff like "Our Worlds' at War" was received back in the day.

I don't know if stuff like Joker's Last Laugh counts since that ended up being Bat-Centric but it crossed over into a bunch of other DCU titles.

Which ones are you talking about? All we've getting are Superman and Batman focused adaptations. If not that, then JL focused stuff. The only exception was the Flashpoint movie.

Is it incorrect to say that the DC Animated movies adapt a lot of seminal/iconic/major stories in animation?

[John Venus]

As for Marvel’s future, they’ll probably be fine. They’re currently in, to use a sports analogy, a rebuilding year. They lost two of their big marquee heroes in Iron Man and Captain America, and 2022 was (theatrically at least) mostly dedicated to introducing newer properties (even Black Widow was clearly a launch pad for the character of Yelena Belova). Eternals was a flop and Shang-Chi only a modest hit, but there’s an observable “Avengers bump” trend where the solo heroes see big increases in the sequels after they appear in a big crossover. Given Shang-Chi’s mid-credits scene was clearly setting the character up to join the Avengers, he’ll be fine. And then moving into next year they’ve got the return of Thor and Doctor Strange, the latter of whom is likely gonna see the Avengers bump I just mentioned. I don’t think they’re in any danger of being overtaken in the near future.

Like someone else said, you’ll be a lot happier when you stop trying to make it a competition and just enjoy DC’s movies on their own merits.

Eternals got a low RT score from critics but a much higher one from the audience. By pandemic standards, it did modestly well. https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a3...ed-marvel-mcu/

Shang Chi broke Labor Day weekend records and is responsible for Disney deciding to go for theatrical release followed by a D+ release a few weeks later. .https://www.***************.com/how-...-office-2021-9

We've already gotten sequel confirmation for Shang Chi. Eternals is up in the air but they can always pin the blame on them breaking from formula and foreign markets rejecting an explicitly gay character.

Shang Chi was even the biggest movie of the year and did better than Black Widow before being surpassed by James Bond.

It's NWH that's blowing every other movie out of the water. It's making EG money and breaking pre-pandemic records without opening in China, Japan (huge Spider-Man fan base there) and Phillipines. That's insane.

Legends was pretty solid too. There's also Invasion!, and I'm not sure how stuff like "Our Worlds' at War" was received back in the day.

I thought they were meh.

I don't know if stuff like Joker's Last Laugh counts since that ended up being Bat-Centric but it crossed over into a bunch of other DCU titles.

Is it incorrect to say that the DC Animated movies adapt a lot of seminal/iconic/major stories in animation?

You said, DC animates a lot of their iconic story arcs. I only asked to name ones that they've animated which doesn't center on Superman or Batman with the exception of the Flashpoint. Balls in your court, dude.

[Frontier]

I thought they were meh.

I enjoyed them myself .

You said, DC animates a lot of their iconic story arcs. I only asked to name ones that they've animated which doesn't center on Superman or Batman with the exception of the Flashpoint. Balls in your court, dude.

Judas Contract. New Frontier (and even though Superman and Batman are major characters the story doesn't center around them). Actually, do the Justice League movies not count?

I don't think Batman and Superman movies should be discounted either.

There are some looser adaptions or originals that take heavy influence from other stories.

[The True Detective]

Nolan's Batman was indeed liked by audiences. We'll see the appeal Reeve's Batman has. Snyder's Batman was in a movie with Superman and still got outgrossed by plenty of superheroes like Wonder Woman and Aquaman. That said, I do expect NWH to blow past every previous solo superhero domestically and internationally and it won't be particularly close either
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Aquaman nearly outgrossed Captain America: Civil War by himself, $1.153b for Civil War vs $1.148b for Aquaman. Civil War had Cap, Iron Man, Black Panther's debut, multiple other Avengers, Spider-Man's MCU debut and great great reviews and it barely beat the "lame" guy who talks to fish in a movie that got mixed reviews at best. Also looks like NWH may have a pretty big drop in it's 2nd weekend, from $260m to potentially $80-90m which would be about a 70% drop so I don't know if it'll blow past Black Panther's $700m domestic total so easily.

I think The Batman will make more than Joker because of it's PG-13 rating and it being more of a traditional action set piece structure, more kids will see Batman than Joker simply because they wouldn't be allowed to see the latter. A movie with Pattnson's Batman with Phoenix's Joker plus other popular actors from Batman movies could do NWH numbers and I see no reason why it couldn't.

Bale, DeVito, Michelle Pfeiffer, Schwarzenegger, Clooney (he's an A-lister regardless of his performance as Batman) Tom Hardy, Anne Hathaway, and Keaton joining Pattinson and Phoenix could make what NWH has imo.

[Holt]

If DC were so bad at making movies people liked a non traditional CBM like Joker wouldn't have sold more tickets than Spider-Man in the same year. It's laughable how people think a future Batman movie couldn't possibly do NWH numbers when it clearly could.

That perception exists because the DC has not as of yet shown those successes were a sign of the franchise’s viability and not, for lack of a better term, flukes. Joker was an unqualified massive success, but it was also lightning in a bottle. Same for Aquaman. As it stands most of their other efforts have yet to hit those marks, and the underperformance of BVS did a massive number on the franchise’s reputation. Granted we’ll never know how WW1984 or The Suicide Squad would’ve performed had WB not gone for the day and date releases, but as it is the overall track record of the DCEU remains rather spotty.

Now, just for clarity, I expect The Batman will be huge. Possibly the biggest hit of the year unless Doctor Strange 2 has crazy hype or Black Panther 2 can reproductive the cultural phenomenon of the original. But that’s because it’s Batman and I doubt Matt Reeves’ take will be alienating enough to produce the kind of negative word of mouth that cratered BVS’ second weekend. But WB will need to show it’s able to consistently replicate those sorts of successes before it’s considered anywhere near as reliable a performer as the MCU. I think Black Adam and Flash will also do well, but how well remains to be seen for now.

[Robotman]

Reading Taylor’s Nightwing today it reminds me that WB has had their own version of Spider-Man right in front of them for decades and don’t realize it.

We should be watching Nightwing: No Way Home right now.

[The Kid]

Aquaman nearly outgrossed Captain America: Civil War by himself, $1.153b for Civil War vs $1.148b for Aquaman. Civil War had Cap, Iron Man, Black Panther's debut, multiple other Avengers, Spider-Man's MCU debut and great great reviews and it barely beat the "lame" guy who talks to fish in a movie that got mixed reviews at best. Also looks like NWH may have a pretty big drop in it's 2nd weekend, from $260m to potentially $80-90m which would be about a 70% drop so I don't know if it'll blow past Black Panther's $700m domestic total so easily.

I think The Batman will make more than Joker because of it's PG-13 rating and it being more of a traditional action set piece structure, more kids will see Batman than Joker simply because they wouldn't be allowed to see the latter. A movie with Pattnson's Batman with Phoenix's Joker plus other popular actors from Batman movies could do NWH numbers and I see no reason why it couldn't.

Bale, DeVito, Michelle Pfeiffer, Schwarzenegger, Clooney (he's an A-lister regardless of his performance as Batman) Tom Hardy, Anne Hathaway, and Keaton joining Pattinson and Phoenix could make what NWH has imo.

We'll see. I think it's likely The Batman does better domestically but I'd be shocked if it comes close internationally. Joker just really connected with the overseas audience. 700+ million is an insane haul without China. You're right that PG-13 has a better quadrant but Joker being rated R is what caused it to specifically gross so much as it appealed to a different audience than usual.

Reading Taylor’s Nightwing today it reminds me that WB has had their own version of Spider-Man right in front of them for decades and don’t realize it.

We should be watching Nightwing: No Way Home right now.

Eh I don't know about that. I love Dick Grayson but just purely in terms of visuals and powers, there is a huge difference between them. Spider-Man's design and 'cool' powerset of being able to swing around is a huge chunk of his appeal. Personality wise there is some similarity but in terms of overall mythos, Spider-Man is more the Marvel equivalent of Batman than anyone else

[Alpha]

Reading Taylor’s Nightwing today it reminds me that WB has had their own version of Spider-Man right in front of them for decades and don’t realize it.

We should be watching Nightwing: No Way Home right now.

Dick Grayson and Peter Parker aren't very similar. What defines Spider-man is that he's a poor kid that gets superpowers which is cool, but makes his life even more complicated. And if I go into more detail than you'll see how trully different they are. Peter works because he is working class. Dick was adopted by a billionaire which regardless of his choices will always give him assurances in life. And honestly could quit at any time since he doesn't have powers. I'm not saying he wouldn't be popular, but it would be for very different reasons than Spidey.

And in terms of anesthetics and fights there is no comparison. Nightwing couldn't beat any of the Spider-Man movie villains aside from maybe Goblin and Lizard. We will never see the Far from home battle in London with someone like Nightwing

[Alpha]

I'm skeptical of how much money The Batman will make. It really does fell like just another Batman movie (it's even in the generic name). It definitely won't be a flop, but I don't know how anxious audiences are for another story of Batman taking down serial killers and mob bosses and being angry. Nothing in the marketing makes it seem different from what we got before.

[The True Detective]

I'm skeptical of how much money The Batman will make. It really does fell like just another Batman movie (it's even in the generic name). It definitely won't be a flop, but I don't know how anxious audiences are for another story of Batman taking down serial killers and mob bosses and being angry. Nothing in the marketing makes it seem different from what we got before.

What do you expect the movie to look like, not a Batman movie? I don't understand that complaint, judging by the hype and positive reception to the trailers I think audiences are looking forward to it a lot. The 2nd trailer got 1m likes on YouTube in under a month with a very positive like to dislike ratio before YT removed the counter showing how many dislikes videos get.

Even if it is "just another Batman movie", he's Batman, it doesn't have to reinvent the wheel to bring people into theaters. Batman has set the opening weekend record in North America 4 times and the franchise has grossed over $1b 3 times, clearly people like his movies and it'll be 10 years since his last solo movie so if it's good it'll be a pretty big success.

[The True Detective]

We'll see. I think it's likely The Batman does better domestically but I'd be shocked if it comes close internationally. Joker just really connected with the overseas audience. 700+ million is an insane haul without China. You're right that PG-13 has a better quadrant but Joker being rated R is what caused it to specifically gross so much as it appealed to a different audience than usual.



Eh I don't know about that. I love Dick Grayson but just purely in terms of visuals and powers, there is a huge difference between them. Spider-Man's design and 'cool' powerset of being able to swing around is a huge chunk of his appeal. Personality wise there is some similarity but in terms of overall mythos, Spider-Man is more the Marvel equivalent of Batman than anyone else

Why would it shock you for The Batman to make more overseas than Joker? They're playing to very similar audiences, people who don't like big flashy CGI filled superhero movies. The only difference is The Batman will be PG-13 enabling more kids and families to see it, a huge market Joker missed out on. It can get the older audience that doesn't usually see comic book movies Joker brought in since it's tone is similar and Pattinson and Reeves are respected among that crowd not to mention the credibility Nolan brought the franchise among more hardcore film fans.

So it will bring in families, kids and the casual adult movie fan who only sees big blockbusters since it's guaranteed to have more action and spectacle than Joker. I don't see a single area where Joker would have an edge tbh, every market he got Batman can get while bringing in other demos.