Mary Jane Watson/Parker Appreciation Thread 2018

[Spidercide]

Those people on Tumblr are also a very very very small minority. Yes there may be people out there who think she's a "slut" for various reasons, almost all of which probably wrong and dumb, but I have NEVER seen people say that she is just because Emma Stone said it once in an interview years ago, which is what you were insinuating. Also haven't seen any of that kind of talk in the boards before either.

Thinking that the Amazing Spider-Man movies making Gwen the main love interest is their way of diminishing MJ's importance and trying to push a narrative that she sucks and Gwen is better, is really looking WAY too deep into it.

We were talking about nobody, as in 0.

As for a small minority...I'm not so sure. More people interact with comics via tumblr BS than you think. It's a social media website first and foremost and Gail Simone has even indirectly referenced them in a discussion. In fact many creators have accounts on it.

You misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not saying loads of people come out and say she's a slut cos Emma Stone told them so. I'm saying her saying that coloured a lot of people's views on MJ because it was Emma Stone, because it was a quoatable thing and because it was national TV and amidst the hype. Moreover it was used as fodder against the Raimi MJ who was decried as a slut even before because in a movie series where Peter gets his uncle killed, Harry slaps his friend in public, Aunt May walks out on her nephew when he confesses to her and there are at least 3 misguided ego maniacs who go off the deep end when they get super powers, how dare MJ kiss another man whilst she's in an incredibly obviously not deep or particularly recipricated relationship.

I respect you might not have seen any talk like that. But I have, maybe not in recent years but it existed and still exists elsewhere too.

MJ is routinely slut shamed. Quesada himself did it in an interview about OMIT where he intimated she had sex with Bruce the night before and in OMIT his intentions was to use the Rivera added in pages to frame MJ as a free spirit. Goltez of the Life of Reilly blog when reviewing the story even stated that OMIT made him appreciate how bad the marriage was because MJ was the night before her wedding dancing with other men. Chris Priest himself said MJ was maybe 'good for a roll in the hay, but not marriage'. In other words its the old 'nobody wants a whote for a housewife' bullshit.

These are not isolated examples, it's an incredibly prevalent attitude surrounding MJ.

Dude it's not looking deep at all. When the director and the lead actress are saying that as part of the promotion of the film, a film they already know has an uphill struggle because so many people are questioning it's reason to even exist because they saw this story merely 10 years ago in one of the biggest movies ever, it's incredibly obvious what they were doing in much the same way they used the Lizard in the movie because you kinda sorta remember Connors from the older trilogy.

Hell not too long before or after the ASM1 movie Dan Slott himself bemoaned Parallel Lives on the same grounds that it meant MJ was now in love with Spidey and not Peter.

[Huntsman Spider]

I never said he took advantage of her, I just don't think Peter treated her very well in that movie.

I think it's because of those "slut" comments or that kind of view of classic Mary Jane that Ultimate MJ seems to be more the go-toe for adaptions these days then something resembling 616 Mary Jane.

I mean, I love Ultimate Mary Jane, but I also think her personality is more like your standard female lead then 616 Mary Jane, which makes her more palatable for adaptions.

Hmm, really? I can see that, actually; Ultimate MJ is a lot more straightforward as a character than 616 MJ and that can be more appealing for adaptations that don't have time or room to go into all her layers of characterization. That, and Ultimate MJ is also more "relatable" in the sense of being the proverbial girl next door who grew up with Peter for most of his life as opposed to being the glamorous bombshell stranger who was introduced to him as a blind date by his aunt and his aunt's best friend. Funny enough, in light of the current prevalence of social media, it would be almost impossible for Peter to be surprised or shocked by MJ's appearance like he was in most versions of their first meeting. That said, Avengers Academy (the mobile game)'s take on her is probably the closest to modernizing her original comics character, as opposed to throwing it out and replacing it with something more "palatable" to mainstream audiences, and I'd be pretty interested in seeing that interpretation go forward in future adaptations of Spider-Man.

[Frontier]

But didn't you say: "I think Peter did kind of take advantage of Liz a little in that he kept making promises with her only to end up ditching her and the rest of their group, "????

Then that was bad phrasing on my part.

But again, he had perfectly justifiable reasons to treat her the way he did. It wasn't his fault really.

Things were somewhat out of Peter's hands but I still feel like he ended up leaving Liz in the lurch to do Spider-Man stuff too much.

Maybe I wouldn't have had as much of an issue with it if Liz hadn't just given him a pass for it all at the end of Homecoming instead of rightfully being mad at him.

I like Ult MJ when viewed in total isolation, my problem with her and USM as a whole was that it was intended as and praised as this wonderful modern updating/adaptation of the original stories but often it was just the 'different for the sake of different' universe, MJ being an example. Although her role and FUNCTION and the depth of the feelings she and Peter had replicated a lot of 616 married Peter and MJ, her innate personality wasn't the same. In fact Emma Stone's Gwen was based more upon her than canon Gwen.

I think Ultimate was a good modern AU Spider-Man even if I think Spectacular did a better job of actually modernizing Spider-Man and his mythos.

[millernumber1]

Hmm, really? I can see that, actually; Ultimate MJ is a lot more straightforward as a character than 616 MJ and that can be more appealing for adaptations that don't have time or room to go into all her layers of characterization. That, and Ultimate MJ is also more "relatable" in the sense of being the proverbial girl next door who grew up with Peter for most of his life as opposed to being the glamorous bombshell stranger who was introduced to him as a blind date by his aunt and his aunt's best friend. Funny enough, in light of the current prevalence of social media, it would be almost impossible for Peter to be surprised or shocked by MJ's appearance like he was in most versions of their first meeting. That said, Avengers Academy (the mobile game)'s take on her is probably the closest to modernizing her original comics character, as opposed to throwing it out and replacing it with something more "palatable" to mainstream audiences, and I'd be pretty interested in seeing that interpretation go forward in future adaptations of Spider-Man.

I really wish they'd do a comic based on Avengers Academy the game. Unless they already do and I missed it?

[Spidercide]

Then that was bad phrasing on my part.

Things were somewhat out of Peter's hands but I still feel like he ended up leaving Liz in the lurch to do Spider-Man stuff too much.

Maybe I wouldn't have had as much of an issue with it if Liz hadn't just given him a pass for it all at the end of Homecoming instead of rightfully being mad at him.

I think Ultimate was a good modern AU Spider-Man even if I think Spectacular did a better job of actually modernizing Spider-Man and his mythos.

But Spider-Man stuff is important, more important than not leaving this high school crush with plenty of dating prospects at her disposal in the lurch. I mean people's lives were at stake.

I think Liz attitude was due to wanting to subvert a trope but arguably it plays into being somewhat sexist and from my pov, more egregiously undermining a definint tenent of Spider-Man. So much **** goes wrong in that movie as a result of Peter's actions but the only real consequence is Iron Dad takes away his toy.

Spec was what the USM comic book was allegedly trying to be.

[millernumber1]

But Spider-Man stuff is important, more important than not leaving this high school crush with plenty of dating prospects at her disposal in the lurch. I mean people's lives were at stake.

My argument is that Peter shouldn't have tried to be with Liz. He should have left her alone. But that's not something most people can do, so I don't think he's a horrible man for doing it, just a somewhat immature man.

[Frontier]

But Spider-Man stuff is important, more important than not leaving this high school crush with plenty of dating prospects at her disposal in the lurch. I mean people's lives were at stake.

I'm not denying that being Spider-Man is important or that Peter shouldn't have done what he did, but I'm just saying that can have negative consequences on the people around him.

I think Liz attitude was due to wanting to subvert a trope but arguably it plays into being somewhat sexist and from my pov, more egregiously undermining a definint tenent of Spider-Man. So much **** goes wrong in that movie as a result of Peter's actions but the only real consequence is Iron Dad takes away his toy.

Exactly what I was getting at.

Spec was what the USM comic book was allegedly trying to be.

I think they were both different ways of achieving what they set out to do, even if I think Spec was truer to the source material in terms of it's updates.

[Spidercide]

My argument is that Peter shouldn't have tried to be with Liz. He should have left her alone. But that's not something most people can do, so I don't think he's a horrible man for doing it, just a somewhat immature man.

Well I mean he's 15 so he's literally not a man yet. But even that aside, I don't think he should've left her alone instead of trying to date her. Superheroes need human companionship and normalacy and Peter had no idea her Dad was Batman

[Spidercide]

I'm not denying that being Spider-Man is important or that Peter shouldn't have done what he did, but I'm just saying that can have negative consequences on the people around him.

Exactly what I was getting at.

I think they were both different ways of achieving what they set out to do, even if I think Spec was truer to the source material in terms of it's updates.

Of course but that doesn't make him a bad person or innately culpable for them morally speaking. Like the spouse of a doctor is probably mad they're left alone on dates due to their spouse being on call for an emergency but that doesn't make the doctor wrong or immoral.

It's a fault int he narrative then not the character in-universe. Like it's not that being a slave trader isn't a bad thing, it's that Thor: Ragnarok treated Valkyrie being one nonchalantly and played it as both a joke and something she faced no consequences for despite being you know...evil (and fucked up considering the actress playing her).

See with USM vs. Spec that depends upon what you think USM was setting out to do.

And I do not buy for a second USM wasn't setting out to be a modern adaptation of classic Spider-Man filtered through the lens of his career starting out and occurring during his high school years. Because that's how Marvel promoted it back at the start and how people praised it and what the first arc or two were clearly trying to be. They weren't an AU that was different for the sake of being different and also modern and set in high school.

Bendis stated the entire project stemmed from Jemas trying to get back to what he felt (incorrectly) was the essence of the character, a teenage supoerhero and that was why the Mackie/Byrne reboot stuff wasn't working, because Peter was old (as in late 20s, he might as well retire) and divorced (he wasn't divorced, just believed widowed).

Also between the lines of what was going on back then (including the fact that an an abandonned plan for the Byrne run was to literally reboot Peter Parker back into high school ala the Shaper of Worlds after he's implied to have committed suicide, no I'm not joking about that) it's pretty obvious USM was intended to be positioned as the actual main Spider-Man book, whether in continuity or not. It was the title they put their energies into whilst allowing the 616 stuff t languish in crap until they hooked up with JMS.

So with all that said USM and Spec probably had essentially the same mission statement meaning Spec did it better whilst USM decided it just wanted to be a modern remake of the classic stuff but where things are arbirtrarily different for the sake of it...like having Flash be racist and Venom have no personality or Nick Fury be uber important to Peter's life or Doc Ock have Magneto powers because why not I guess.

This was why even back in 2011 I wasn't THAT mad about Miles replacing Peter. Because if the Ult universe was just gonna be the arbitrarily different for the sake of it universe but also modern and more realistic, then you might as well have the hook be that Peter Parker isn't even Spider-Man in that universe and thus creatively justify it more.

[millernumber1]

Well I mean he's 15 so he's literally not a man yet. But even that aside, I don't think he should've left her alone instead of trying to date her. Superheroes need human companionship and normalacy and Peter had no idea her Dad was Batman

I agree that superheros should have normal life otherwise they become like Rorschach, thinking they're above human rules. But I think they have to be willing and able to share eventually. Probably not at the stage that Liz and Peter were, though, to be fair.

[Huntsman Spider]

I really wish they'd do a comic based on Avengers Academy the game. Unless they already do and I missed it?

To my knowledge, no, but if Future Fight can get a one-shot comic adaptation for Sharon Rogers (Steve Rogers and Peggy Carter's daughter in a different timeline where Steve was never frozen) and Contest of Champions (the mobile game) can get a loose comic book adaptation, then why not Avengers Academy (the mobile game)?

That said, having been to tumblr myself browsing for pics of my favorite characters, I've seen more than a few members/posters also defending and supporting Mary Jane's character as she's depicted in the (good) comics, because those posters understand that there is more to her than the "party girl" she presented herself as, that being a supermodel/actress doesn't make her a shallow character, that appreciate her growth and development over the years and don't appreciate Mary Jane being bashed or sidelined or flat-out dismissed, not just by fans or readers, but by Marvel writers/editorial themselves. Hell, I've seen a number of tumblr posters criticize 616 Gwen for being far more shallow as a character than 616 MJ ever was and address that a lot of the positive reception 616 Gwen has gotten in more recent years compared to 616 MJ has largely been because of alternate versions and adaptations that gave her some actual depth of character instead of making her a shallow Silver Age archetype and then killing her off when they couldn't come up with any better ideas for her. Of course, the misuse and marginalization of female characters in comics (and other media) has been a major topic of discussion for a long time, especially given recent events drawing greater visibility to the marginalization and abuse of women and girls in real life, most particularly in Mary Jane's best-known profession as a model and actress. Come to think of it, JMS in his Spider-Man run actually gave what I thought was a slight rebuttal to the kind of dismissive attitudes about MJ prevalent in some sectors of the fandom and Marvel editorial when he had Aunt May confide to her that she believed MJ had the talent for more and better roles than just being another girlfriend-slash-plot device. (Something to that effect.)

[AngelJD]

To my knowledge, no, but if Future Fight can get a one-shot comic adaptation for Sharon Rogers (Steve Rogers and Peggy Carter's daughter in a different timeline where Steve was never frozen) and Contest of Champions (the mobile game) can get a loose comic book adaptation, then why not Avengers Academy (the mobile game)?

That said, having been to tumblr myself browsing for pics of my favorite characters, I've seen more than a few members/posters also defending and supporting Mary Jane's character as she's depicted in the (good) comics, because those posters understand that there is more to her than the "party girl" she presented herself as, that being a supermodel/actress doesn't make her a shallow character, that appreciate her growth and development over the years and don't appreciate Mary Jane being bashed or sidelined or flat-out dismissed, not just by fans or readers, but by Marvel writers/editorial themselves. Hell, I've seen a number of tumblr posters criticize 616 Gwen for being far more shallow as a character than 616 MJ ever was and address that a lot of the positive reception 616 Gwen has gotten in more recent years compared to 616 MJ has largely been because of alternate versions and adaptations that gave her some actual depth of character instead of making her a shallow Silver Age archetype and then killing her off when they couldn't come up with any better ideas for her. Of course, the misuse and marginalization of female characters in comics (and other media) has been a major topic of discussion for a long time, especially given recent events drawing greater visibility to the marginalization and abuse of women and girls in real life, most particularly in Mary Jane's best-known profession as a model and actress. Come to think of it, JMS in his Spider-Man run actually gave what I thought was a slight rebuttal to the kind of dismissive attitudes about MJ prevalent in some sectors of the fandom and Marvel editorial when he had Aunt May confide to her that she believed MJ had the talent for more and better roles than just being another girlfriend-slash-plot device. (Something to that effect.)

To be far if we ONLY take the issues duration that both 616 MJ and 616 Gwen existed in and nothing more (so non of the 'recon' stuff ONLY what is presented from the series beginnings in Mar 1963 to July 1973 when issue 122 came out) both don't come out smelling like roses that much in terms of 'shallowness' especially 616 MJ. To be honest reading the past issues 616 Gwen was just more appealing to me as a character then MJ during that limited time as once more MJ's biggest bang was her intro page that was super effective and well done by the artist and writer to build up spuness then having a design that would please viewers based on a star of the time. I'm also going to be honest this is all person option as I read some fan that loved 616 Gwen Stan Lee Version and hated 616 Gwen other writers where some other liked 616 Gwen other writers (but Sins Past as everybody hates that storyline and charazations) and dislike 616 Gwen Stan Lee version.

For me 616 Gwen did have a shift and something caught my attention to her when after her father died and she returns certain shifts happened with her I think with Lee and a bit with Conway (and not just her death). The Gwen that returned was emotional for sure but had a shift in priorities that made me interested in her psyche. She stop blaming Spider-man (she tells this to Flash), wants to see Flash and Peter break bread, tells Flash 'enough is enough' after one to many times Flash insulted Peter when he wasn't around, scolded Aunt May (which many fans like her doing that feeling Aunt May needed to hear what was said) but then worried for Aunt MAy when she disappeared wondering if she hurt her to badly and went off to investigate, and stop freaking out around dangers nearby towards the self vs worries for others. A falling roof? Not phasing her. Peter, MJ, Flash, Aunt May possible in danger? She runs to them.
In this sense it felt like from issues 105 (Feb. 1972) till her death in 121 (June 1973) Lee/Conway was trying to improve Gwen in some form showing her care more and be involved more in others lives beyond her own matters. Psyche wise it could be viewed that after going through the process of grieving in London taking time to think and having a more sane and logical mind Gwen not just understood Spider-man wasn't to blame but put properties to others after losing her father she stop taking other for granted like they would always be there (something MJ would learn by Gwen's own death) and became more proactive and worried for other's lives.

Then Conway killed Gwen and had that wonderful scene with MJ staying with Peter at the end of the emotional and still shocking for viewers at the time issue.

Shifting attention to MJ she then appeared alot more often presented beyond just a self centered party girl (though MJ would try to keep that lifestyle and appearance and devil may care attitude up her shifting started to begin here) it took some time (and not all of her appearances were great) but MJ at this point started her origins into a MJ I became a fan of little by little.

In short I liked 616 Gwen from issues 105 till her death but hated 616 MJ till a 'character development origins' point happened in 122 with Conway. Conway was really the one who start 616 MJ into 'a character' with actual depth and made a moment in time to jump start her own path of character developments and continued to be worked on by other writers. Looking back it's the same old thing of today (but no internet fandoms just mail) in a way. Lee wanted to push Gwen (based on his wife), Conway wanted to push MJ (with a fotunitues that 616 MJ already existed in the series thus not new character but basically she became anew here), and we seen other writers push their own new characters or others they have more feelings towards with mixed results (usually not good ones as fans like what is established/comfortable vs the new).

We can write down lists of writers and various series they worked on with the gals they endorsed/pushed. Such as with Dan Scott first had with..I can't recall her name for Spider-man and in his Silver Surfer run he had the Silver Surfer paired up with his new character Dawn Greenwood. Many hated the new gal in Spider-man (I can't give my option as I didn't get into this series till late 2014 and now reading past issues to catch up while reading present issues as well so I have yet to reach that area in the series) meanwhile I LOVED Dawn Greenwood (series, character showcased, anything subject or similar that I felt was off during Dan's Spider-man run I felt he did fantastic handled better in his Silver Surfer run).
But overall looking at the past and present things don't change that much ('a death' to pushes issues and writers pushing their desires which is per usual and expected but with mixed executions many times).

MJ didn't become the 'MJ' I became a fan of till after a MUCH needed and very long character developments happened with her character (with some good and some bad issues still with her) that took many issues and years to happen on a character development rollercoaster of time, culture, and writers (with ups and downs).

[Inversed]

Not a conspiracy, but within Marvel comics themselves there has at various times definitely been an anti-MJ (sometimes manifesting as a pro-Gwen) agenda.

Like Quesada obviously doesn't merely dislike the idea of Spidey being married on principle, he obviously dislikes MJ being with Peter in general and is butthurt over Gwen's death.

I've never really seen where this "MJ vs. Gwen agenda" directly from Marvel themselves came from. Is it because of Spider-Gwen and all the attention she got? Well that's simple, Spider-Gwen got unexpectedly uber popular and they jumped at the opportunity to exploit/market it. They weren't pushing Gwen because she's "better than MJ", they pushed her because she was the "new hotness". And hell, Renew Your Vows started around the same time as Gwen's first volume, and even though she didn't end up doing much in the book, they still made a big deal about MJ in Iron Man.

Only one I would really say "has a problem" with MJ is Slott, and even then that's only because he just didn't feel like writing them together as a couple if they weren't gonna be married. If Quesada really didn't want them to be together at all, he could've easily told Spencer no, but he let him do it. I do believe its just the marriage he doesn't like (even though I also agree its for a dumb reasoning).

We were talking about nobody, as in 0.

As for a small minority...I'm not so sure. More people interact with comics via tumblr BS than you think. It's a social media website first and foremost and Gail Simone has even indirectly referenced them in a discussion. In fact many creators have accounts on it.

You misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not saying loads of people come out and say she's a slut cos Emma Stone told them so. I'm saying her saying that coloured a lot of people's views on MJ because it was Emma Stone, because it was a quoatable thing and because it was national TV and amidst the hype. Moreover it was used as fodder against the Raimi MJ who was decried as a slut even before because in a movie series where Peter gets his uncle killed, Harry slaps his friend in public, Aunt May walks out on her nephew when he confesses to her and there are at least 3 misguided ego maniacs who go off the deep end when they get super powers, how dare MJ kiss another man whilst she's in an incredibly obviously not deep or particularly recipricated relationship.

I respect you might not have seen any talk like that. But I have, maybe not in recent years but it existed and still exists elsewhere too.

MJ is routinely slut shamed. Quesada himself did it in an interview about OMIT where he intimated she had sex with Bruce the night before and in OMIT his intentions was to use the Rivera added in pages to frame MJ as a free spirit. Goltez of the Life of Reilly blog when reviewing the story even stated that OMIT made him appreciate how bad the marriage was because MJ was the night before her wedding dancing with other men. Chris Priest himself said MJ was maybe 'good for a roll in the hay, but not marriage'. In other words its the old 'nobody wants a whote for a housewife' bullshit.

These are not isolated examples, it's an incredibly prevalent attitude surrounding MJ.

Dude it's not looking deep at all. When the director and the lead actress are saying that as part of the promotion of the film, a film they already know has an uphill struggle because so many people are questioning it's reason to even exist because they saw this story merely 10 years ago in one of the biggest movies ever, it's incredibly obvious what they were doing in much the same way they used the Lizard in the movie because you kinda sorta remember Connors from the older trilogy.

But initially it seemed like you were talking about how the general public feels, casual comic readers who may be more familiar with other media. And that's who I was referring to when I said that nobody thinks that way because of what you said. Like yeah, maybe that day when she said it some people thought she had a point, but that was 4 years ago, the only people who remember it are the ones upset about it, and I would bet hard on saying if someone for some reason asked her about it now she would say she way over-exaggerated.

And also remember, they originally were gonna have her in ASM2, and were planning to have her be the main focus in ASM3. So if they were so serious about how terrible she was, why were they gonna have her in the films almost certainly for him to get together with her in the end.



I also personally don't think "closest to the source material" or "how different" is what should be the deciding factor in terms of quality. Spectacular is one of my favourite superhero TV shows period. Ultimate is one of my favourite comic runs of all time. They aren't great because of how much influence they took from original comics, they're great because they're excellent stories with great characters, with the elements from the Spider-Man mythos used as a starting point. Doesn't bother me when something is different because the execution is still really well done.

[Starrius]

I've never really seen where this "MJ vs. Gwen agenda" directly from Marvel themselves came from. Is it because of Spider-Gwen and all the attention she got? Well that's simple, Spider-Gwen got unexpectedly uber popular and they jumped at the opportunity to exploit/market it. They weren't pushing Gwen because she's "better than MJ", they pushed her because she was the "new hotness". And hell, Renew Your Vows started around the same time as Gwen's first volume, and even though she didn't end up doing much in the book, they still made a big deal about MJ in Iron Man.

Only one I would really say "has a problem" with MJ is Slott, and even then that's only because he just didn't feel like writing them together as a couple if they weren't gonna be married. If Quesada really didn't want them to be together at all, he could've easily told Spencer no, but he let him do it. I do believe its just the marriage he doesn't like (even though I also agree its for a dumb reasoning).



But initially it seemed like you were talking about how the general public feels, casual comic readers who may be more familiar with other media. And that's who I was referring to when I said that nobody thinks that way because of what you said. Like yeah, maybe that day when she said it some people thought she had a point, but that was 4 years ago, the only people who remember it are the ones upset about it, and I would bet hard on saying if someone for some reason asked her about it now she would say she way over-exaggerated.

And also remember, they originally were gonna have her in ASM2, and were planning to have her be the main focus in ASM3. So if they were so serious about how terrible she was, why were they gonna have her in the films almost certainly for him to get together with her in the end.



I also personally don't think "closest to the source material" or "how different" is what should be the deciding factor in terms of quality. Spectacular is one of my favourite superhero TV shows period. Ultimate is one of my favourite comic runs of all time. They aren't great because of how much influence they took from original comics, they're great because they're excellent stories with great characters, with the elements from the Spider-Man mythos used as a starting point. Doesn't bother me when something is different because the execution is still really well done.

shrugs

Then why did Quesada make it out that Mary Jane was no good for Peter?
Spidercide pointed out that Quesada insinuated that Mary Jane cheated on Peter with her exboyfriend, Bruce the night before their wedding.



I made an essay ,Addressing Misconceptions About The Dick/Kory Fanbase that explained how Dick/Kory has history of being a popular and iconic ship going back to the 1980s and 1990s (they were each other's love interest from 1980 to 1994) and it wasn't just the 2000s Teen Titans cartoons, and I brought up Peter/Mary Jane and Quesada. I mentioned a lot about Peter/Mary Jane including that there was a time that Mary Jane was out of comics when Dick and Kory were each other's love interest and was not in a relationship with Peter when Dick and Kory were in a relationship.

this is past of my essay that mentioned Quesada:

You can imagine that a lot of Teen Titans comic fans were very disappointed when Dick and Kory had a wedding in the August 1993 published The New Titans issue #100 only for it to end with Trigon-possessed Raven crashing it and implanting Kory with Trigon's demon seed which all led to Kory breaking up with Dick and returning to Tamaran. In New Titans issue #114 published in September 1994, Dick was waiting for Kory to come see and talk with him but she never showed up as she didn't want Dick confusing things after thinking her life is no longer on Earth even though she still loves him more than he knows. The whole thing reminds me of Marvel's former Editor in Chief Joe Quesada's written One Moment in Time story with Mary Jane leaves Peter which was supposed to explain what happened after One More Day when Peter and Mary Jane's marriage was undone by Mephisto and was apart for 11 years. Mary Jane was written to be weak and that she couldn't deal with Peter Parker being Spider-Man any more. I was afraid that Joe Quesada was going to come up with a retcon that Mary Jane cheated on Peter with her ex-boyfriend Bruce the night before Peter and Mary Jane got married.

[Inversed]

shrugs

Then why did Quesada make it out that Mary Jane was no good for Peter?
Spidercide pointed out that Quesada insinuated that Mary Jane cheated on Peter with her exboyfriend, Bruce the night before their wedding.

I made an essay ,Addressing Misconceptions About The Dick/Kory Fanbase that explained how Dick/Kory has history of being a popular and iconic ship going back to the 1980 and 1990s (they were each other's love interest from 1980 to 1994) and it wasn't just the 2000s Teen Titans cartoons, and I brought up Peter/Mary Jane and Quesada. I mentioned a lot about Peter/Mary Jane including that there was a time that Mary Jane was out of comics when Dick and Kory were each other's love interest and was not in a relationship with Peter when Dick and Kory were in a relationship.

this is past of my essay that mentioned Quesada:

You can imagine that a lot of Teen Titans comic fans were very disappointed when Dick and Kory had a wedding in the August 1993 published The New Titans issue #100 only for it to end with Trigon-possessed Raven crashing it and implanting Kory with Trigon's demon seed which all led to Kory breaking up with Dick and returning to Tamaran. In New Titans issue #114 published in September 1994, Dick was waiting for Kory to come see and talk with him but she never showed up as she didn't want Dick confusing things after thinking her life is no longer on Earth even though she still loves him more than he knows. The whole thing reminds me of Marvel's former Editor in Chief Joe Quesada's written One Moment in Time story with Mary Jane leaves Peter which was supposed to explain what happened after One More Day when Peter and Mary Jane's marriage was undone by Mephisto and was apart for 11 years. Mary Jane was written to be weak and that she couldn't deal with Peter Parker being Spider-Man any more. I was afraid that Joe Quesada was going to come up with a retcon that Mary Jane cheated on Peter with her ex-boyfriend Bruce the night before Peter and Mary Jane got married.

You could say the same thing towards someone like Slott, that he despises the character because of ways he's written her, and we know that just isn't true. Sometimes peoples perspectives change, they aren't as passionate about a character or situation they might have been previously, or they don't have any true ill will towards a character and just write whatever actions for them to serve their story (even if said actions weren't a good idea). I guess the way I've always seen stories, just because a character is portrayed terribly doesn't mean everyone in charge hates them, most of the time its just simply a bad story.