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  1. #91
    Astonishing Member Majesty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    Nobody wants to see MJ with anyone else but Peter though, same with not wanting Peter to date anyone but MJ.
    Because the comics have never committed to it. For 30+ years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    The two, when written properly, would never leave either's side after everything they went through. Any person MJ gets with people will just excuse it as "the devil magic is making her do it".
    "when written properly" could be used for any pairing. The Spider-Man and Felicia Hardy in The Evil Men Do you could make the exact same argument for and that's when they're "written properly" as well.

    As it goes in comic books "They are super devoted to/in love with each other... till they aren't." So you could make the same argument with Mary Jane and Peter Parker. The difference is, writers don't really have the guts to do it with any other pairing for a consistent period of time. They could.. they just don't, because "status quo" and all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    Why is that you may ask? Because MJ already told Peter in OMD that no matter what Mephisto does to them, no matter what happens to them, they will always find each other and be together again. Essentially, in the very story that tried to break the status quo, the writers inadvertently enforced it.
    They did it so that they didn't really break the status quo.

    The saddest thing is that for as much as people really want to push that Mary Jane has been written better and branched off into her own individual person. It's the constant tie to Peter that keeps her from being that. Because when it's essentially written that she will always be on standby for Peter while Peter can go do and be with whomever he wants during the periods they aren't together, then it takes away from her as a character, particularly when there's many opportunities to writer her into a committed relationship with someone else.

    It's not that her character isn't capable of it, it's that the comics don't want to make her capable of it, and they want her to be "spider-man princess in the final castle" always. Which is why I'd actually like to see them doing something different without having to Mephisto it.

  2. #92
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majesty View Post
    The saddest thing is that for as much as people really want to push that Mary Jane has been written better and branched off into her own individual person, it's the constant tie to Peter that keeps her from being that.
    Yeah no, her lacklustre appearances in Invincible Iron Man say otherwise.

    MJ being Peter's partner does NOT stand in the way of a writer developing her as her own character. Same way as cutting her off from him like in IIM didn't magically give her ten-fold development. It's just a lazy excuse by unimaginative writers and people who aren't fans of the relationship.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majesty View Post
    Because the comics have never committed to it. For 30+ years.
    Why fix something that's not broken?

    Attempts to do so have led to nearly ten years of woeful mischaractersiation.

    The saddest thing is that for as much as people really want to push that Mary Jane has been written better and branched off into her own individual person. It's the constant tie to Peter that keeps her from being that.
    Completely absurd. MJ's best standout moments and developments have always come out of her loyalty to Peter.

  4. #94
    Astonishing Member Majesty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    Why fix something that's not broken?

    Attempts to do so have led to nearly ten years of woeful mischaractersiation.



    Completely absurd. MJ's best standout moments and developments have always come out of her loyalty to Peter.
    And she can be more than that.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majesty View Post
    And she can be more than that.
    She is more than that already, through her love for Peter she is already a strong and courageous character with plenty of agency. She doesn't need to branch out.

  6. #96
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    She is more than that already, through her love for Peter she is already a strong and courageous character with plenty of agency. She doesn't need to branch out.
    I love MJ and she is my preferred pairing for Peter but honestly if truthful where does she go without Peter? She's a supporting character unless she decides to fight crime or get a profession where she's investigates crimes both of which have never been things 616 MJ seemed interested she has no place to go without Peter except fading into the background or jumping ship to another hero's book like Iron Man where she has no history. It's the unfortunate reality to being a supporting character they either have to become a hero themselves or stay relevant by supporting the lead of the series.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    I love MJ and she is my preferred pairing for Peter but honestly if truthful where does she go without Peter? She's a supporting character unless she decides to fight crime or get a profession where she's investigates crimes both of which have never been things 616 MJ seemed interested she has no place to go without Peter except fading into the background or jumping ship to another hero's book like Iron Man where she has no history. It's the unfortunate reality to being a supporting character they either have to become a hero themselves or stay relevant by supporting the lead of the series.
    Exactly. A lot of what makes MJ work as a character is through her understanding and attempts at coping with Peter's rollercoster life, which is unique to them. Trying to replace Peter in her life with other, more competent or "together" heroes changes the combustion...what does she learn from other people other than to cope better? If she can cope better, why keep at arm's length from Peter? Things like this are very much the reason why she gravitates back to Peter's world at the end of Slott's run and into Spencers' (even if it's not made explicit, you sort of have to make these kind of deductions). MJ realised Peter was worth returning to, and through that we learn to love and respect her once more for opting not to run (a cliche she outgrew when she first married him, and only struggled with a few times in the late 90s and early 2000s before triumphing over it)
    Last edited by Miles To Go; 09-02-2018 at 02:30 AM.

  8. #98
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majesty View Post
    lol you know, the one thing I really hated about that (I loved her and Peter's reunion and the subsequent stuff they told one another). But what I hated about that entire arc with Jessica Jones and Luke Cage, is essentially after that fact she pretty much for many years there, got frozen out of any bigger storyarcs and essentially just became a stay at home mom.
    I would argue her situation and story arcs feeling frozen namely had to do with her going over 10 years not having an ongoing series, and only getting said series because the Netflix series did so well.

    Bendis at least tried to do what would be the next logical step for her character, which is make her an Avenger so she could inspire her child. However he had her retire as he left the book, so she went the next couple years as just a Luke Cage supporting character.

    Wasn't until the ANAD era when we got to see her as a Private Eye again, and when we finally get to hear her POV again, she's back to her grumpy screwed up self. So it showed that the marriage and the child didn't effect her character, just most writers didn't know what to do with her until the Netflix show reminded them what they should be doing.

    But back to Mary Jane. The saddest thing is that many people feel that she should only exist as to be Spider-Man's girlfriend, and that's it. I am glad the development they'd been giving her, but it goes down to wasted potential, and as much as people say that it shouldn't be about her dating life, in the medium of comicbooks, people still see her as just the vehicle to being Spider-Man's girlfriend, or eventual girlfriend, and it's the "Status Quo is God" situation. I think her time with Tony Stark had they had her branch out, and actually get in a serious relationship, even with another hero, it would have done more in separating herself as a character outside of someone that will eventually always find her way back to Peter Parker cause that's what the Status Quo has to be.
    I don't think it helps that the writers themselves haven't really done much with her, when there really is so much they could do. But I guess because she's a "Spider-Man supporting character" means that she can only really do things in Spider-Man books, and given her most famous trait is being the girlfriend of the main character, it seems its hard to not wanna call back to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    Yeah no, her lacklustre appearances in Invincible Iron Man say otherwise.

    MJ being Peter's partner does NOT stand in the way of a writer developing her as her own character. Same way as cutting her off from him like in IIM didn't magically give her ten-fold development. It's just a lazy excuse by unimaginative writers and people who aren't fans of the relationship.
    Pretty much, outside of one moment where she gives Tony Peter's contact info, he is barely mentioned and their prior relationship plays no role in her working with Stark. The problem is that they basically just had her sit on the side the whole time and occasionally say something to Riri, Amanda, or Friday.

  9. #99
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    So I'm hearing that the Peter/MJ split in the Isomniac universe prequel novel was one of the more healthier break-ups the characters have had. Mostly "it's best we have some space because you're overprotecting me"

  10. #100
    Astonishing Member Tuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majesty View Post
    And she can be more than that.
    Honestly, this is dangerous territory for creators. For MJ to be "more" essentially needs her to have development away from - or at least outside of - superhero antics. This can either happen over an extended period in a Spider-Man B-plot, where maybe she's in Hollywood or Pittsburgh, etc, or it can happen while she's on an extended leave from any of the books, and the readers get caught up on "what MJ's been up to" when she returns to the book.

    But what a lot of the MJ fans seem to want is for her to be used somewhere on a regular basis . . . which is at odds with this development. Pretty much anything that happens on panel in superhero comics is going to be about superheroes. This greatly limits what can be done with a civilian who wants her life to be uncomplicated by superheroics.

    (There's also the problem that the issue that separated Peter and MJ for ten years was her not wanting to be at ground zero in the superhero world. Moving her to another superhero book flies in the face of this. If they're these permanently in love soul mates (which was a terrible idea to put in OMD for this very reason), and superhero life is the thing keeping them apart, then you're in a place where it only ever makes sense for her to be in Spider-Man books.)
    Last edited by Tuck; 09-02-2018 at 09:21 AM.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuck View Post
    Honestly, this is dangerous territory for creators. For MJ to be "more" essentially needs her to have development away from - or at least outside of - superhero antics. This can either happen over an extended period in a Spider-Man B-plot, where maybe she's in Hollywood or Pittsburgh, etc, or it can happen while she's on an extended leave from any of the books, and the readers get caught up on "what MJ's been up to" when she returns to the book.
    This is what's been going on in the newspaper strip at the moment. MJ is incredibly busy right now, touring other cities to promote her Marvella II movie, forcing Peter to return to NYC without her. They keep in touch via phone but it's been months since she appeared.

  12. #102
    Astonishing Member Majesty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    I would argue her situation and story arcs feeling frozen namely had to do with her going over 10 years not having an ongoing series, and only getting said series because the Netflix series did so well.

    Bendis at least tried to do what would be the next logical step for her character, which is make her an Avenger so she could inspire her child. However he had her retire as he left the book, so she went the next couple years as just a Luke Cage supporting character.

    Wasn't until the ANAD era when we got to see her as a Private Eye again, and when we finally get to hear her POV again, she's back to her grumpy screwed up self. So it showed that the marriage and the child didn't effect her character, just most writers didn't know what to do with her until the Netflix show reminded them what they should be doing.



    I don't think it helps that the writers themselves haven't really done much with her, when there really is so much they could do. But I guess because she's a "Spider-Man supporting character" means that she can only really do things in Spider-Man books, and given her most famous trait is being the girlfriend of the main character, it seems its hard to not wanna call back to it.



    Pretty much, outside of one moment where she gives Tony Peter's contact info, he is barely mentioned and their prior relationship plays no role in her working with Stark. The problem is that they basically just had her sit on the side the whole time and occasionally say something to Riri, Amanda, or Friday.

    Yes and this is why I keep calling it missed potential. Her being in the Iron-Man book was essentially their chance, but they got cold feet. Saddest thing about that.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majesty View Post
    Yes and this is why I keep calling it missed potential. Her being in the Iron-Man book was essentially their chance, but they got cold feet. Saddest thing about that.
    It wasn't about having cold feet. Marvel weren't going to use MJ at all if Bendis hadn't scooped her up, and Bendis simply became more interested in Riri and Doom's stories than anyone else, including the title character.

  14. #104
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majesty View Post
    Yes and this is why I keep calling it missed potential. Her being in the Iron-Man book was essentially their chance, but they got cold feet. Saddest thing about that.
    She was only in Iron Man because Bendis didn't want her in character limbo. But if a Spider-Man writer wanted her, they would be able to claim her and get her back. They have priority. And we saw that happen when Bendis left Iron Man and Spencer took over Spider-Man (although we don't know if Slott wanted her around or not. He probably gave his blessings to Spencer to do whatever he wanted with her.)

    It's like when Beast isn't allowed to rejoin the Avengers because the X-Men want him.

  15. #105
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