Dick Grayson: Robin, Nightwing, Agent of Spyral Appreciation 2018

[Ascended]

I fear that someone high up at DC is why we're in this state in the first place.

Percy was brought on Nightwing with a long-term plan. He's not a big name but he brought consistent, respectable numbers to Arrow (I think?) and it seemed like DC was just gonna let him do his thing and basically ignore Dick. Then King had an idea for Batman that involved injuring Nightwing. And Percy's plans got thrown out the window.

I dont know how DC structures its editorial groups or how much those editors have to answer to their bosses for the day-to-day stuff. But whoever approves those things approved the King story and completely derailed the company's plan for Percy-Nightwing. The fact that it threw a title completely out of whack and ruined the creator's plans says to me that this wasn't a run of the mill decision the editors didn't have to get approval for.

What we need is for one of DC's overseers at WB to take notice. As someone said, this is so small-time for those guys they'd need a microscope to notice it, and wouldn't give a damn about the loss of revenue at all. But maybe they'd care about the kind of treatment one of their IP's (one of their more well known ones, if not one of their biggest) is getting. The comics dont matter, but Nightwing has potential in broader markets, and those do matter. That WB manager might not like seeing one of the company's products getting sh*t on, since it damages the brand and that brand could find its way onto the new (unproven) streaming service or even a movie (if that actually happens, which I have many doubts about).

[yohyoi]

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/12...vel-nightwing/

Turns out Nightwing's suffering was just about to begin!

Nightwing is a mess. DC won't fix it because they don't want to give him to a popular and great writer. They rather use newbie writers on one of their most popular characters. DC suck!

[Robanker]

Why not just take a book off your pull when the quality is low (like it is with Dick right now) and get the issues out of the bargain bins?

That way DC is losing your pre-order and the money from it, which tells them you wont support crappy quality, your LCS is making up the difference on what it already spent on those copies in the back-issue bin so you're supporting your local business, and your collection doesn't have to take a hit.

This is how I normally do this sort of thing too, even if there's a variant cover I wouldn't want to miss. At the end of the day, I want Nightwing stories to read and this current stuff isn't that-- good or bad. If you want Dick to return to form, you'll have to get the issues at a later date or skip them altogether. Losing the "I must have each and every issue" mentality will help you a lot more in the long run.

[Digifiend]

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/12...vel-nightwing/

Turns out Nightwing's suffering was just about to begin!

Wait, you're the one who leaked that page to them, right? Do you have the whole catalogue?

And I think it's obvious that issue 58 will have to be rewritten, which means delays.

[Pohzee]

Holy ****. I can't believe how many times over the past 2 years I've assumed it couldn't get any worse. Yet I am continually proved wrong.

[Ascended]

Losing the "I must have each and every issue" mentality will help you a lot more in the long run.

Im so glad I dont have that mentality. I'll drop a book any time I start to dislike it. No matter who the character is, or for how long the quality keeps me away. My collection is all holes, but I wouldnt want it any other way. I'll not tell DC with my wallet that they're doing a good job when they give me mindless, half-ass crap.

[ross61]

I fear that someone high up at DC is why we're in this state in the first place.

Percy was brought on Nightwing with a long-term plan. He's not a big name but he brought consistent, respectable numbers to Arrow (I think?) and it seemed like DC was just gonna let him do his thing and basically ignore Dick. Then King had an idea for Batman that involved injuring Nightwing. And Percy's plans got thrown out the window.

I dont know how DC structures its editorial groups or how much those editors have to answer to their bosses for the day-to-day stuff. But whoever approves those things approved the King story and completely derailed the company's plan for Percy-Nightwing. The fact that it threw a title completely out of whack and ruined the creator's plans says to me that this wasn't a run of the mill decision the editors didn't have to get approval for.

What we need is for one of DC's overseers at WB to take notice. As someone said, this is so small-time for those guys they'd need a microscope to notice it, and wouldn't give a damn about the loss of revenue at all. But maybe they'd care about the kind of treatment one of their IP's (one of their more well known ones, if not one of their biggest) is getting. The comics dont matter, but Nightwing has potential in broader markets, and those do matter. That WB manager might not like seeing one of the company's products getting sh*t on, since it damages the brand and that brand could find its way onto the new (unproven) streaming service or even a movie (if that actually happens, which I have many doubts about).

With the way WB is set up they won't care.

Why does everyone want a big name writer instead of just a good one? Before the news about Eric came out, he was considered a good writer and someone with a decent voice for teens. There would be no controversy if we didn't know what we know now.

[oasis1313]

Wait, you're the one who leaked that page to them, right? Do you have the whole catalogue?

And I think it's obvious that issue 58 will have to be rewritten, which means delays.

I don't think DC will bother with rewrites. The book just isn't that important to them.

[yohyoi]

Green Arrow is getting cancelled, while Nightwing is being continued without any plans. DC just wants Dick and his fans to suffer right now.

[Godlike13]

Ya, it’s probably just wishful thinking that the current management on the book would just give it a break to regroup. It would be an admission of the managements failure here in a way, so they’re not gonna do that. There gonna stick to thier plan. Which was to continue to mock us with Ric and regurgitate bad ideas that failed, while they find creators with even worse reputations. LoL, this really is just comical.

[Badou]

Them looking to put Eric Esquivel on the title is completely within their management style. They put a young sort of unproven writer on the book to test out and if it works they will move them up to a bigger book probably. This was all planned before the stuff that came out about him. I think them moving a somewhat tested writer like Percy like they did over to the book is kind of rare.

What I really think it comes down to is that there is just no one at the company right now that will go to bat for Dick's character. That will fight to put the character in the best position possible or really want to push the boundaries of what to do with the title like you see Priest on Deathstroke, Johns on Shazam, a Tomasi for a Damian, Lobdell for Jason, or even a Snyder for Batman. A creator that feels attached to him and will never undermine, sabotage, or let the character be jerked around to a gross amount like he has been. Seeley did his best I think but he got worn down and wanted out and probably only stayed on because of how much he enjoyed the Gryason series.

I think bigger creators like King or Johns will continue to drag the character through the mud if they think it suits Batman's narrative and have no interest in Dick's character beyond that, so the book will continue to get a rotating set of creators that don't really have any big plans because of how limited they are with Dick's character right now, in terms of how irrelevant the character is across the DCU and how bogged down he is in management. Creators on his book have very little freedom to write in ways that could elevate the character and are stuck regurgitating the same stuff. I don't really see what they can do given that Bludhaven has failed, the Titans has failed, and don't see how it can change given the current status quo. Like I don't see some creator jumping on and it all magically works suddenly because the same problems will still exist.

[ross61]

When has the writer of an acclaimed book ever been “unproven”?


And man, that’s gotta feel terrible knowing no big writer really cares about your favorite character.

[Badou]

When has the writer of an acclaimed book ever been “unproven”?


And man, that’s gotta feel terrible knowing no big writer really cares about your favorite character.

Border Town had like 4 issues before it was cancelled. He would count as someone that was unproven in terms of writing for the Big 2. Just look at the history of the book since the start of the New 52. Higgins was a new unproven writer when he got the new 52 Nightwing book. Was his first ongoing series I believe. King and Seeley were unproven when put on Grayson. I don't think King had written a ongoing series before then, and while Seeley had experience on this own creator work he didn't really do much Big 2 stuff. Then the characters that filled in were new writers from their creator workshop. A Humphries or a Percy were kind of rare, but also had the shortest run out of all these creators and saw how the book was being treated and had the clout to leave or asked to be moved elsewhere.

And it isn't about them caring, but not caring enough to go to bat for the character. So it leads to a constant shuffling of creative teams and the character being jerked around.

[ross61]

Border Town had like 4 issues before it was cancelled. He would count as someone that was unproven in terms of writing for the Big 2. Just look at the history of the book since the start of the New 52. Higgins was a new unproven writer when he got the new 52 Nightwing book. Was his first ongoing series I believe. King and Seeley were unproven when put on Grayson. I don't think King had written a ongoing series before then, and while Seeley had experience on this own creator work he didn't really do much Big 2 stuff. Then the characters that filled in were new writers from their creator workshop. A Humphries or a Percy were kind of rare, but also had the shortest run out of all these creators and saw how the book was being treated and had the clout to leave or asked to be moved elsewhere.

And it isn't about them caring, but not caring enough to go to bat for the character. So it leads to a constant shuffling of creative teams and the character being jerked around.

Border Town was getting acclaim and great press before Eric was outed. It still would’ve if (unfortunately), he wasn’t exposed.

I hope you realize there are publishers outside of the big two and some of the best comic writers aren’t even writing at the big two these days. Hell, dozens of these “proven” writers were unproven going by your definition of it.

What happens when y’all get that big name on your title and it still sucks?


If they don’t care enough to bat for them do they really care at all? :/

[oasis1313]

Them looking to put Eric Esquivel on the title is completely within their management style. They put a young sort of unproven writer on the book to test out and if it works they will move them up to a bigger book probably. This was all planned before the stuff that came out about him. I think them moving a somewhat tested writer like Percy like they did over to the book is kind of rare.

What I really think it comes down to is that there is just no one at the company right now that will go to bat for Dick's character. That will fight to put the character in the best position possible or really want to push the boundaries of what to do with the title like you see Priest on Deathstroke, Johns on Shazam, a Tomasi for a Damian, Lobdell for Jason, or even a Snyder for Batman. A creator that feels attached to him and will never undermine, sabotage, or let the character be jerked around to a gross amount like he has been. Seeley did his best I think but he got worn down and wanted out and probably only stayed on because of how much he enjoyed the Gryason series.

I think bigger creators like King or Johns will continue to drag the character through the mud if they think it suits Batman's narrative and have no interest in Dick's character beyond that, so the book will continue to get a rotating set of creators that don't really have any big plans because of how limited they are with Dick's character right now, in terms of how irrelevant the character is across the DCU and how bogged down he is in management. Creators on his book have very little freedom to write in ways that could elevate the character and are stuck regurgitating the same stuff. I don't really see what they can do given that Bludhaven has failed, the Titans has failed, and don't see how it can change given the current status quo. Like I don't see some creator jumping on and it all magically works suddenly because the same problems will still exist.

Johns has written Dick better than anyone lately (and for the TV show). But I don't know how interested he is in comics now that he's doing TV. Maybe Fabian could take up writing Nightwing, and plot as well as dialogue. He likes Nightwing--maybe if he got to choose directions for it.