Dick Grayson: Robin, Nightwing, Agent of Spyral Appreciation 2018

[dietrich]

ThatÂ’s sounds about right. The next evolution of Dick Grayson was always just a bunch of horse crap. There was no grand plan, that was clear from the get go. They wanted a sales stunt, but then put it in the hands of editors that just werenÂ’t equipped to run with anything. And so they came up with this mess. What a joke. What an absolute joke. Course nothing will change, of course thereÂ’s was no grand plan here, his readers just have to eat this something last minute direction by Scott Lobdell until the book gets cancelled. Which they of course will put on the readers.

Though Listening to the Podcast Kings idea would have been a kick in the nuts. Dick would be in bed having to relearn to read and stuff while Tim takes over as Nightwing. But ya, heÂ’s far from enthusiastic about this Ric crap.

I dread coming onto these thread's now. It just bad news and worse news. I can't believe that was his plan for Nightwing or for Tim?

That wasn't a good plan for either character.

I can't get over the lack of Fu*k's writers have for these characters. They aren't plot devices or space fillers to be brought in used in a temp position without any thought for the long term. They are valuable properties. I really don't understand how writers, editors or DC can be this careless.

Even if writers are not concerned editors and higher ups should be. Batman alone can not sustain DC and it's not like they have a host of characters burning up the sales charts. They only have a few and Nightwing is one of those.

DC is a business. Businesses are set up t make money. Businesses take care of the things that make them their money.

Isn't that how business works You look after the things that make you money, try to maximise their money making potential not just short term but ideally for the long term?

I don't understand. It makes little sense from my pov.


I'm so pissed off and disappointed with DC and King. I guess Dick Grayson was simply King's come up. Suddenly I'm reminded of First Wives Club.

[Konja7]

I dread coming onto these thread's now it just bad news and worse news. I can't believe that was he plan for Nightwing or for Tim.

I didn't hear the postcast, so it's the first time I read King plans that Dick needs to learn everything again, while Tim is the new Nightwing.

That would be horrible. I suspect King would let the Nightwing comic develop this story.

I can't get over the lack of Fu*k's writers have for these characters. They aren't plot devices or space fillers to be brought in used in a temp position without any thought for the long term. They are valuable properties. I really don't understand how writers, editors or DC can be this careless.

Even if writers are not concerned editors and higher ups should be. Batman alone can not sustain DC and it's not like they have a host of characters burning up the sales charts. They only have a few and Nightwing is one of those.

DC is a business. Businesses are set up t make money. Businesses take care of the things that make them their money.

Isn't that how business works You look after the things that make you money, try to maximise their money making potential not just short term but ideally for the long term?

I don't understand. It makes little sense from my pov.

I guess the problem is that DC consider Nightwing a Batman lite character, so they don't have problem to sacrifice the character to affect Batman (although they won't kill Nightwing).

Also, DC knows Nightwing has a loyal fanbase, they probably feel safe to mistreat the character, since the fans will stay.

I'm so pissed off and disappointed with DC and King. I guess Dick Grayson was simply King's come up. Suddenly I'm reminded of First Wives Club.

I don't understand the reference, what's the meaning?

[TheCape]

Man is usually depressing to come here, but damn, things had gotten worse, i really did miss a lot.

[WhipWhirlwind]

I referred to Nightwing as a "Robin" in that post because you guys know what I'm talking about without me typing out a whole big explanation every time. How can we quantify that Tim is the most popular ex/future Robin other than the fact that he's Bendis' favorite? I would say that each historical Robin is the most popular one in the generation that grew up with them. When old dinosaurs like me finally die out, Dick's devout fan base will die out with them. Same with Jason. Damian is already being pushed out of the household name brand/role that is his birthright. Tim is definitely the most popular Robin with Bendis and Didio, and their two votes mean a lot more than many thousands of fans of the other characters. So I guess popularity depends on who you ask. I hope that Bendis is more interested in Connor and Bart because he is right--they never got the ridiculous panel time Tim does and they deserve the lion's share of the storylines. I also hope that Bendis is less "permanent" than he says he is in terms of his attention span, or that he burns out and wrecks the book the way Claremont and Wolfman did theirs. Just as I boycott any Dreck appearance, I will also boycott all things Bendis.

Hard disagree with this.

I'm in the Tim generation and him and Dick flip flop as my #1 and #2 favorite characters depending on how they are being written at the time. I think you underestimate the amount of fans Dick has as the guy who grew out of Robin. I don't love Dick for his past, I love him for his present, or at least what his present could be.

[Pohzee]

Hard disagree with this.

I'm in the Tim generation and him and Dick flip flop as my #1 and #2 favorite characters depending on how they are being written at the time. I think you underestimate the amount of fans Dick has as the guy who grew out of Robin. I don't love Dick for his past, I love him for his present, or at least what his present could be.

Yup, the first and last will always be fine. It is the middle ones who will suffer.

[TheCape]

Yup, the first and last will always be fine. It is the middle ones who will suffer.

This
10 char.

[oasis1313]

Man is usually depressing to come here, but damn, things had gotten worse, i really did miss a lot.

Yeah, not exactly the Glee Club, are we? But we've had nothing but bad news lately, and there doesn't look to be in any good news in the foreseeable future. Where else do we have to go but here? We can write letters of protest to DC until our faces turn blue, and they all just go into the "circular file". Management/Editorial at DC doesn't cares about the character and it's clear they loathe his fans even more. They're not interested in hearing our voices, would rather we'd all go choke on a bag of nails. We're like the family of a kidnap victim whose kidnappers keep making crank calls, mailing them toes in cigar boxes, and constantly changing the sites to drop off the money. Right now we're kind of a support group for people who've had poopy dumped on their heads (can't use the language I'm REALLY thinking of) and have to survive it. I can't abandon Dick at an hour this dark; DC Management knows it and is laughing its collective wrinkled hairy butt off at me (and us). I'm so glad to have you Nightwing Anonymous buds with me now, who understand and share the same feelings. This is a safe place for Victims of Wingnut Abuse.

[dietrich]

I didn't hear the postcast, so it's the first time I read King plans that Dick needs to learn everything again, while Tim is the new Nightwing.

That would be horrible. I suspect King would let the Nightwing comic develop this story.




I guess the problem is that DC consider Nightwing a Batman lite character, so they don't have problem to sacrifice the character to affect Batman (although they won't kill Nightwing).

Also, DC knows Nightwing has a loyal fanbase, they probably feel safe to mistreat the character, since the fans will stay.



I don't understand the reference, what's the meaning?

First Wives Club is a movie about 3 first wives who were with their husbands wen the men were struggling to make it big but then they all got dumped and replaced by hotter wives once the husbands found success.

King was very invested and seemed to like dick when he had the Grayson deal which was how he got the batman deal [along with Synders help] but now he's a big shot on Batman he doesn't seem to be as invested or as respectful of the character.


I understand not wanting to do anything to cut into the Batman's market share but they don't have to sabotage the Nightwing character. It's not even like they did for some ground breaking original story that's sure to add value to the Batman. No it's a story line that's been done before and better.

The shooting, braking the bat, bat going ape shit, Robins getting hurt, KGBeast getting left for dead? It's all been done. This story didn't have to happen.

I don't know how the comic business works but surly DC could be winning with Batman while keep Nightwing steady and consistent?
I still maintain that Seeley's Idea of a globe trotting Nightwing was/is the best direction for Dick Grayson and it's different enough from Batman.

Sadly everyone of the Robins is always going to be a Batman lite. Even Red Hood is still Batman lite since DC won't let him go full Punisher. Agent 37 was a good direction away from Batman lite but that got scrapped.

Dick's dependability is at times a curse because the company takes him for granted however thanks to it Dick is safer than all of his generation, the Robins and a ton of other comic characters. As bad as things are creatively for the character I know he is here to stay. I just wish I had a decent book with him right now is all.

[dietrich]

@Oasis1313 I have to agree with the others Tim and Damian is my generation's Robin but Dick Grayson is Robin. You can't over write or erase that. Young kids watching on CN right now are falling in love and growing up with Dick Grayson Robin.

And it's not just Robin. Nightwing, DickBats, Agent 37, Renegade Dick Grayson is a difficult character to bury.

[Konja7]

I suspect Robin is the only identity for Dick that DC really care.

Honestly, if it wasn't for the popularity of the other Robins (and that this can affect Batman story), I wouldn't be surprised if the New 52 return Dick to Robin.

I mean DC clearly doesn't care about Dick identity and story as Nightwing. After all, DC destroyed his story in NTT.

[Grayson - The Dark Heir]

I was listening to Tom King on the Gotham by Geeks podcast and he made his dislike of the current Nightwing storyline apparent. He also clarified what happened regarding Batman #55.

Shooting Dick was his idea. He wanted it to be a part of the Bane story. He says that he doesn't like derailing other writers so he told DC "I'm shooting Nightwing in the head, I can fix this next issue with a Zatanna spell or you can run with it. Your choice." And they decided to run with it. So that's the whole story I guess. No grand plans to bring him back into the spotlight. No plan to ruin him. Just DC deciding to pick up on a potential tie-in for some sales.

wow....I think I missed this earlier. I'm not sure why I'm surprised but I am.


Anyways, next episode of Titans is going to be hella hype. It's setting Dick up as the leader of the Titans as they're first coming together to fight the Nuclear Family. The promo photos they released show Dick [spoiler]meeting Jason, so we'll finally get that. Glad casual fans are finally going to get a look at what Jason is supposed to be as Robin, maybe now they'll stop thinking Titans' Dick is "like Jason" because he curses and fights well lmao. Another thing, we see Dick confronting the old dude who "activated" the Nuclear Family and it looks like Dick kicks some ass there, too. And last thing, we get our first sex scene between Dick and Kory so that's exciting in its own way lol.[/spoiler]

[Restingvoice]

I understand not wanting to do anything to cut into the Batman's market share but they don't have to sabotage the Nightwing character. It's not even like they did for some ground breaking original story that's sure to add value to the Batman. No it's a story line that's been done before and better.
The shooting, braking the bat, bat going ape shit, Robins getting hurt, KGBeast getting left for dead? It's all been done. This story didn't have to happen.
I don't know how the comic business works but surly DC could be winning with Batman while keep Nightwing steady and consistent?

When New 52 began they created a pretty clear hierarchy
Justice League being the beginning arc sits at the top
After that the lines are divided between Superman family, Batman family, Green Lantern family, Justice League family, Young Justice line, Dark line and Edge line.
Each family has their heads that direct where the family story goes. Superman is Superman, Batman is Batman, and so on.
The story starts in Batman and then it bleeds to Nightwing, Batgirl, and so on. These family titles are considered equal to each other but under Batman.

So at the top Justice League and its equivalent direct where the story goes, like how Forever Evil and Darkseid War worked.

Then, the family heads. The story started with the head of the family, then spread to the family members book. Whether it's The Court of Owls, Bruce Wayne suffered amnesia, or Bane targetting the family, the family books adjusted the story to accomodate what happened to the family heads.

The line has disappeared now but the attitude remains the same, and you can see that the Batman symbol is still being used under the Nightwing title instead of his own symblol. Also from what I heard it's been going on since Infinite Crisis, where the event destroyed Bludhaven, and then Final Crisis that killed Batman that forced Nightwing to leave New York and cancelling his book to be Batman.

Management wise, it makes sense to do a top-down and radial spread out storytelling if they have one large story. The problem is they consider every character at the lower tier to be supporting cast to the upper tier, despite being main characters themselves.

Beyond New 52 setup, or if you pay attention to how the title symbol is used, they never made this clear to readers, making them think they're buying a book of equal measure when they're only buying a supporting character to a family head, and supporting character to larger story, that DC let run around free for a time until the next large plot point happen and they have to follow it.

[Restingvoice]

This Batman Who Laughs variant kinda sums up the joy and sadness of things

aHR0cDovL3d3dy5uZXdzYXJhbWEuY29tL2ltYWdlcy9pLzAwMC8yNDEvMjAyL29yaWdpbmFsL0JhdG1hbldob0xhdWdoc18x.jpg

"Joy" as in that Nightwing is the only Bat Family member selected to be featured as the victim for this high profile villain variant meaning his status as family member of importance is still the highest.

[WonderNight]

When New 52 began they created a pretty clear hierarchy
Justice League being the beginning arc sits at the top
After that the lines are divided between Superman family, Batman family, Green Lantern family, Justice League family, Young Justice line, Dark line and Edge line.
Each family has their heads that direct where the family story goes. Superman is Superman, Batman is Batman, and so on.
The story starts in Batman and then it bleeds to Nightwing, Batgirl, and so on. These family titles are considered equal to each other but under Batman.

So at the top Justice League and its equivalent direct where the story goes, like how Forever Evil and Darkseid War worked.

Then, the family heads. The story started with the head of the family, then spread to the family members book. Whether it's The Court of Owls, Bruce Wayne suffered amnesia, or Bane targetting the family, the family books adjusted the story to accomodate what happened to the family heads.

The line has disappeared now but the attitude remains the same, and you can see that the Batman symbol is still being used under the Nightwing title instead of his own symblol. Also from what I heard it's been going on since Infinite Crisis, where the event destroyed Bludhaven, and then Final Crisis that killed Batman that forced Nightwing to leave New York and cancelling his book to be Batman.

Management wise, it makes sense to do a top-down and radial spread out storytelling if they have one large story. The problem is they consider every character at the lower tier to be supporting cast to the upper tier, despite being main characters themselves.

Beyond New 52 setup, or if you pay attention to how the title symbol is used, they never made this clear to readers, making them think they're buying a book of equal measure when they're only buying a supporting character to a family head, and supporting character to larger story, that DC let run around free for a time until the next large plot point happen and they have to follow it.

exactly. Which is why I refer to nightwing as sidekick.

Someone said DC only cares about dick when he's Robin. This is wrong, DC doesn't like dick as nightwing because nightwing is a ADULT SIDEKICK! DC doesn't mind sidekicks when they're kids or teens but not adults.

As long dick as nightwing is a adult sidekick he will never be his own man, DC will never care for him and he will never get the respect the push ir investment he deserves.

It's time for nightwing to stop sitting at the kids table and sit with the other adults like cyborg and starfire are doing now. That doesn't mean he has to join the league (even though he should) but nightwing needs to leave the bat office again like in his NTT days and start be his own head.

If nightwing can't stand on his own and be his own head then move him to the superfamily for a few years. More nightwing and superman, supergirl and Jon. He'll send him to the wonderfamily, A nightwing and Donna book. More wonder woman, donna troy and a.r.g.u.s. why not what does dick have to loser?

But nightwing has maxed out as he is. As a sidekick to batman. He can't go up through the bat ceiling so let him go around it.

P.s get batman logo of his book.

[Konja7]

Keep in mind that Dick in NTT was allowed to leave Batman office, because the extremely popularity of NTT

This make that DC allowed Dick to let the Robin mantle. Also, DC wants to recover the identity of Robin exclusively for Batman office.

So, it would be difficult DC allow Dick let the Batman office.


That said, if Dick let the Batman officee, he will probably be put on Titans. The Superfamily or Wonderfamily don't have a place for him (it's even difficult that the Wonderfamily has a place for Donna Troy).