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  1. #1126
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    Nice that Donna and Dick's new dynamic is that they are barely friends and don't care about each other.
    We saw this at the beginning of the Titan’s new direction too. So this is just confirmation.

    Man, Abnett really wiped his butt with the Titans. The team itself is as irrelevant and insignificant as ever, and even the relationships between the characters are crap. Overall the characters are actually worse off after his run. He accomplished nothing, he rebuilt nothing. It’s laughable really.

  2. #1127

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    Honestly the sliding time scale only serves the Justice League & during events the Titans are canon fodder or sidelined in favor of random people, New Creations or Supervillains. The Last Time The Justice League & Titans actually teamed up was during the Technis Imperative and even that was confrontational. Since the JL are Popular and have all of editorial with them the Titans will constantly be belittled and marginalized, the younger groups are safe as long as they stay that way. Damian barely shows in Batman books so the audacity to think one day he will be 25 Y/O Batman Of the main universe is ridiculous, I just wish writers would stop killing main universe Batman because it’s been done so much and there are no more important stories to tell about a Replacement that won’t end up in things returning to Bruce Wayne is Batman.

  3. #1128
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    Borrowed a copy of Titans and read it. My advice: it sucks and don't buy it. Donna has turned into a bitch to tell you the truth. Her whole character is basically anger and alcohol. The Titans generation is broken and used to fill the loser slot.

  4. #1129
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    We saw this at the beginning of the Titan’s new direction too. So this is just confirmation.

    Man, Abnett really wiped his butt with the Titans. The team itself is as irrelevant and insignificant as ever, and even the relationships between the characters are crap. Overall the characters are actually worse off after his run. He accomplished nothing, he rebuilt nothing. It’s laughable really.
    Yeah I remember, it's a slog to read through. Worse than before because I know what comes after. At least Titans Hunt feels more like the team, funny how everyone didn't care for Titan's Hunt when it came out it's probably Abnett's best work with the characters.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  5. #1130
    Fantastic Member L.H.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yohyoi View Post
    Borrowed a copy of Titans and read it. My advice: it sucks and don't buy it. Donna has turned into a bitch to tell you the truth. Her whole character is basically anger and alcohol. The Titans generation is broken and used to fill the loser slot.
    I've dropped Titans about a year ago because of how Dick and Donna were treated. Good to know I made the right choice, and I'm glad that Dick is out of this crap, too. I'm just wondering what will happen to Titans sales now that Dick is out.

  6. #1131
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    NIGHTWING #50 2ND PTG

    I don't know a lot about sales, but it seems Nightwing 50 is selling good. This is interesting, since previous numbers have "low" sales.

  7. #1132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    NIGHTWING #50 2ND PTG

    I don't know a lot about sales, but it seems Nightwing 50 is selling good. This is interesting, since previous numbers have "low" sales.
    Nightwing had flat lined. They needed to do something. We can all argue what that something could have been but the book was tumbling. It was well written and the art was good. I hope they can capitalize on the momentum. Scott Lobdell has a tough job with all this but I like his Red Hood stuff of late.
    Last edited by OWL45; 10-10-2018 at 07:32 PM.

  8. #1133
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    NIGHTWING #50 2ND PTG

    I don't know a lot about sales, but it seems Nightwing 50 is selling good. This is interesting, since previous numbers have "low" sales.
    Well Nightwing #50 was a tie-in to Batman #55, which is a book that sells more than 3x as many copies as Nightwing. So I'm not surprised the issues got more orders. I wonder how many reorders it will get.

  9. #1134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    NIGHTWING #50 2ND PTG

    I don't know a lot about sales, but it seems Nightwing 50 is selling good. This is interesting, since previous numbers have "low" sales.
    I would be happy if the direction was good. Previous issues was flat lining to 26000 and over-performing somewhat in digital. Nightwing wasn't in any danger yet for the near future. It just needed better stories. This wasn't.

  10. #1135
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    Quote Originally Posted by yohyoi View Post
    I would be happy if the direction was good. Previous issues was flat lining to 26000 and over-performing somewhat in digital. Nightwing wasn't in any danger yet for the near future. It just needed better stories. This wasn't.
    Are there exact numbers for the digital sales of Nightwing and other comics?

    I know it's digital sales had been in the top 3 and top 5 on two websites. but it's difficult to know how good these sales are without exact numbers.

  11. #1136
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    Quote Originally Posted by yohyoi View Post
    I would be happy if the direction was good. Previous issues was flat lining to 26000 and over-performing somewhat in digital. Nightwing wasn't in any danger yet for the near future. It just needed better stories. This wasn't.
    I re-read it carefully today and felt very sad--just . . . sad. A Dick Grayson who turns the other way when there's trouble? Almost as sad as DC using the two issues prior to # 50 to promote some new character they're more interested in. Like I'm going to pick up the Silencer book because she's hogging panel space in Nightwing's book; I'll never pick up her book now because I'm annoyed. I mean, it's not the character's fault, it's DC's. Why not waste one of many, many Batman title with it? I think the book would do better if they built the character up instead of tearing him down.

  12. #1137
    Mighty Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    ALRIGHT, I CHECKED THE SALES. Note that this is based on sales to comic book stores, meaning this is what people decided to preorder plus estimates from the comic shops on how many they should have left at the store. Preorder determined from 2 months in advance while afterthought buyers have undetermined limited time after the release date.

    The sales of Nightwing has been steadily declining. It started at 125K per issue the first month of Rebirth, to 90K to 80K per issue next month, where we can eliminate the collectors and people trying out... to 65K, then got a boost to 70K with the help of Monster Men tie in.

    Once on his own again, it dipped deeper to 60K, then to 55. This is the Raptor arc. Then it got steady at around 50K per issue for 2 issues. These are the only steady issues so far, and it's the Superman guest star and Nightwing moving to Bludhaven following the conclusion of Raptor arc. Then it dipped to 45K but held it steady there for 2 issues while he's in Bludhaven. The people who only stay to see the conclusion of the first story arc of Raptor is gone now.

    Then to around 40K. Now for 6 issues, the dipping rate is slowing from 1K per issue to 1K per month. Considering the slowing down of the dip this should be considered what Seeley's does best on his own without tie-in or Rebirth hype. This is the Damian arc and Wally also guest star in the middle.

    It's still declining at 1K per month as we returned to Bludhaven for Blockbuster introduction. I think it's safe to say the people who're only trying out Nightwing are completely out by this point. Still, by the end of this arc, it's dipped to almost 35K

    Then it's back to 1K per issue in the middle of the Blockbuster arc, stabilize for 2 issues as it transition to Spyral arc, then back to dip at 1K per issue for Spyral arc. We're below 35K now. So while it's clear that Damian helps a lot at slowing down the dip, Blockbuster didn't help as much and it's safe to say preorder people don't like Spyral.

    Then it got a boost to 50K with Dark Knights Metal Resistance, not surprising considering the characters involved. Not counting Metal, from Spyral to the next arc it dips 1K again, stabilizes at 31K for 2 issues, dipping 1K per issue again twice at the end of the arc. This is Raptor's Revenge arc.

    Sam Humphries enter now. We're below 30K now but from Raptor's Revenge to The Judge there's no change. After that the dipping rate slows to 1K per month instead of bi-weekly, stabilizing at 27K for 3 issues. Not as enthusiastic as Damian but people are ok with the Judge or Humphries. Until they finally had enough and it dipped 1K again at the final act. We're at 26K. Damian's back to keep the number stay at 26K. Also Roy.

    At this point, they decided to go monthly. Makes sense. The number is still at 26K. The beginning of Dark Web. Nightwing vs Hush gets 55K but Nightwing Dark Web still at 26K. Now flatlining at 26K, with Annual only selling at 22K.

    There it is.

    PS: The monthly dip maybe caused by people already started preordering both issues but don't follow up the next month.

    So. Simplest Conclusion Without Much Thought.
    Without Rebirth hype or people who are just trying out, Nightwing is dipping at 10-15K per issue rate. People are either not interested in Raptor or The Parliament or the art or the writing.
    With Bludhaven, the dip slowed at 1K per issue, but it lost 5K that's still interested in Raptor or Parliament type story.
    With Damian, the dip slowed at 1K per month.
    Without Damian, The Judge or Sam Humphries has been the best stabilizer for 3 issues
    Followed by Raptor and Blockbuster who stabilize for 2
    So since people are okay with Raptor, seems like The Parliament and the story involve them factor in losing 10-15K per issue.
    People don't like Spyral.
    The 22K is the hardcore fans.

    So fans who pre-order at comic stores like Damian, okay with the main villains especially Raptor, but not interested in Spyral. I don't know what the digital or trade buyers think.

    I don't blame anyone who loses interest over the course of the run. That's personal preference. I don't blame DC for trying out different writers. Nightwing is losing 1K per issue/month until only the 22-26K hardcore fans are left.

    Injecting Nightwing with events or guest stars, however, is just band-aid. It's not permanent. It also doesn't mean people are not leaving, it's just that they bring in fans of those characters to replace the ones who leave. Once the band-aid's lifted, it's back to leaking 1K again.

    So DC decided to change Nightwing fundamentally and they decided to go with amnesia.

    Nightwing #50 will sell high because it ties with Batman and people want to see what happens, but there's no guarantee that changing a character fundamentally will work well with hardcore Dick Grayson or Nightwing fans, especially since these are the preorder guys. I think people will stay interested in where this goes, but I don't know how many new readers and curious old readers compared with the others.

    Since I only have data on preorder sales, I don't have any legit suggestion. The only suggestion I have right now to help stabilize sales for preorder crowd but not improving it is to always partner Dick with Damian and keep producing villains with personal ties to Dick Grayson

    Oh but for improvement maybe get him out of Bludhaven since we lost that 5K in the month he decided to get in. Though this could also be just people wanting to finish the first story arc before leaving.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 10-11-2018 at 06:33 AM.

  13. #1138
    Spectacular Member 2nd line g's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    ALRIGHT, I CHECKED THE SALES. Note that this is based on sales to comic book stores, meaning this is what people decided to preorder plus estimates from the comic shops on how many they should have left at the store. Preorder determined from 2 months in advance while afterthought buyers have undetermined limited time after the release date.

    The sales of Nightwing has been steadily declining. It started at 125K per issue the first month of Rebirth, to 90K to 80K per issue next month, where we can eliminate the collectors and people trying out... to 65K, then got a boost to 70K with the help of Monster Men tie in.

    Once on his own again, it dipped deeper to 60K, then to 55, then it got steady at around 50K per issue for 2 issues. These are the only steady issues so far, and it's the Superman guest star and Nightwing moving to Bludhaven following the conclusion of Raptor arc. Then it dipped to 45K but held it steady there for 2 issues while he's in Bludhaven.

    Then to around 40K. Now for 6 issues, the dipping rate is slowing from 1K per issue to 1K per month. This is the Damian arc and Wally also guest star in the middle. Considering the slowing down of the dip this should be considered what Seeley's does best on his own without tie-in or Rebirth hype.

    It's still declining at 1K per month as we returned to Bludhaven for Blockbuster introduction. I think it's safe to say the people who're only trying out Nightwing are completely out by this point. Still, by the end of this arc, it's dipped to almost 35K

    Then it's back to 1K per issue in the middle of the Blockbuster arc, stabilize for 2 issues as it transition to Spyral arc, then back to dip at 1K per issue for Spyral arc. We're below 35K now. So while it's clear that Damian helps a lot at slowing down the dip, Blockbuster didn't help as much and it's safe to say preorder people don't like Spyral.

    Then it got a boost to 50K with Dark Knights Metal Resistance, not surprising considering the characters involved. Not counting Metal, from Spyral to the next arc it dips 1K again, stabilizes at 31K for 2 issues, dipping 1K per issue again twice at the end of the arc. This is Raptor's Revenge arc.

    Sam Humphries enter now. We're below 30K now but from Raptor's Revenge to The Judge there's no change. After that the dipping rate slows to 1K per month instead of bi-weekly, stabilizing at 27K for 3 issues. Not as enthusiastic as Damian but people are ok with the Judge or Humphries. Until they finally had enough and it dipped 1K again at the final act. We're at 26K. Damian's back to keep the number stay at 26K. Also Roy.

    At this point, they decided to go monthly. Makes sense. The number is still at 26K. The beginning of Dark Web. Nightwing vs Hush gets 55K but Nightwing Dark Web still at 26K. Now flatlining at 26K, with Annual only selling at 22K.

    There it is.

    PS: The monthly dip maybe caused by people already started preordering both issues but don't follow up the next month.

    So. Simplest Conclusion Without Much Thought.
    Without Rebirth hype, Nightwing is dipping at 10-15K per issue rate. People are either not interested in Raptor or The Parliament or the art or the writing.
    With Bludhaven, the dip slowed at 1K per issue, but it lost 5K that's still interested in Raptor or Parliament type story.
    With Damian, the dip slowed at 1K per month.
    Without Damian, The Judge or Sam Humphries has been the best stabilizer for 3 issues
    Followed by Raptor and Blockbuster who stabilize for 2
    So since people are okay with Raptor, seems like The Parliament and the story involve them factor in losing 10-15K per issue.
    People don't like Spyral.
    The 22K is the hardcore fans.

    So fans who pre-order at comic stores like Damian, okay with the main villains especially Raptor, but not interested in Spyral. I don't know what the digital or trade buyers think.

    I don't blame anyone who loses interest over the course of the run. That's personal preference. I don't blame DC for trying out different writers. Nightwing is losing 1K per issue/month until only the 26K hardcore fans are left.

    Injecting Nightwing with events or guest stars, however, is just band-aid. It's not permanent. Once the band-aid lift, it's leaking 1K again. What they need is change Nightwing fundamentally. We saw that returning to Spyral didn't work. So they decided to go with amnesia.

    Nightwing #50 will sell high because it ties with Batman and people want to see what happens, but there's no guarantee that changing a character fundamentally will work well with hardcore Dick Grayson or Nightwing fans, especially since these are the preorder guys. I think people will stay interested in where this goes, but I don't know how many new readers and curious old readers compared with the others.

    Since I only have data on preorder sales, I don't have any legit suggestion. The only suggestion I have right now to help stabilize sales for preorder crowd but not improving it is to always partner Dick with Damian and keep producing villains with personal ties to Dick Grayson

    Oh but for improvement maybe get him out of Bludhaven since we lost that 5K in the month he decided to get in.
    Where are you finding these numbers?

  14. #1139
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Comic sales in general have natural deflation and leveling off periods. That sales pattern is rather ordinary. The double ship also complicates things a bit.

    Most of the Bat line is probably gonna get a relaunched in 2019. The issue isn’t whether or not they had to do something, the issue is their continued inability to actually put anything together or probably do something. So #50 is getting a second printing, cool, but that can also just mean DC wasn’t expecting much out of this.
    Still Percy left after one issue into this direction. So who knows the new Ric we get in 51 now. This direction turn into a mess before they could get it out. And now they are scrambling. Why do you think there hasn’t been any interviews with the new creative team, and promotion wise all we have is this one image of Dick with a scar on the wrong side of his head. Beyond shooting him in the head they don’t have anything. Which makes sense when they never bothered to find someone who actually wanted to write it or come up with ideas for it. They don’t know what they actually doing with this. They don’t even have a creator to drive it.

    They did something just to do something, but neglected to do basic things like finding a creative team that actually wanted to tell it. They put more effort in finding new costumes for characters that move less numbers and half the product, then they have this entire so called new direction for Nightwing.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 10-11-2018 at 04:59 AM.

  15. #1140
    Incredible Member Rakiduam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2nd line g View Post
    Where are you finding these numbers?
    http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales.html

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