Dick Grayson: Robin, Nightwing, Agent of Spyral Appreciation 2018

[byrd156]

All I’m saying is that “Ric” shouldn’t be written like the Dick seen in Higgins NW#29. After Batman 55, Dick should be temporarily written differently than usual because getting shot in the head should make him act differently.

I’m not defending nor denying the questionable creative decisions made for or the execution of the “Ric Grayson” story so far. To me, Ric’s behavior more or less lines up with how somebody with TBI tends to be written in entertainment.

First off I never said Dick had or should be written like he was in NW #29 for this story. I said that it felt like a bible for how he should act. Two very different things, the main point of that post was to steer discussion towards a Dick Grayson bible. You know what a character bible is? In short it's how the character acts, almost like a template. So any writer coming in can read it and have a very basic level of understanding of the character depending on the detail of said bible. Every writer or company has one and I'm curious what Dick's looks like, how it's changed over the years, or if he currently even has one right now. The creative team going into this arc doesn't feel like they know who he is. Knowing who the character is let's you know who he isn't. From there you can build a solid foundation of how Dick is different pre and post-headshot. Let's say you are doing a story about an amnesiac Superman, how do you go about it? What is the goal of the story? Is it just about him retaining those superhuman feats and continuing his life or does he become someone else entirely? If he does than what are you trying to do or say with the story? The main real difference between Dick and Ric (other than general outlook, design, thoughts on being a hero, etc) is that Ric does his heroing reduncantlantly or as almost a survival instinct. Is this story saying that Dick would've always been a heroic person if the situation was fight or flight or that without Bruce's training Dick would just be a normal guy not stepping into help?

This story feels more like Scott Lobdell transplanting himself in Ric's place. Enjoying the discovery of him becoming a superhero and commenting about how cool and awesome the life is while also complaining about it as if those complaints were actual development or depth. We are 4 issues into this story and the only meaningful things that happened was Scarecrow escaping Arkham (like always), Dick being a homeless criminal, and some cops finding his old hideout. There is very little reflection or introspection, no deep character work, no meaning about Nightwing's importance to Bludhaven other than some cops putting on old outfits. It's just a fill-in arc that was hyped to be something more than it really is. Deconstructionist stories like these I think have been so overdone in the modern age of comics, writers and readers seem more interested in how characters should act in relation to today's world or break a character down to their essentials and display what they think that means in relation to the world. These stories are so played out, they peaked with Watchmen and DKR back in the 80s. Batman just had the same amnesiac, who am I, what do I represent blah blah blah arc, Aquaman is going through the same thing, they did it poorly with Donna when they brought her back, it is so tiring. We keep going through the same cycle of stories, most are worse than the version before it.

[Arsenal]

First off I never said Dick had or should be written like he was in NW #29 for this story. I said that it felt like a bible for how he should act. Two very different things, the main point of that post was to steer discussion towards a Dick Grayson bible. You know what a character bible is? In short it's how the character acts, almost like a template. So any writer coming in can read it and have a very basic level of understanding of the character depending on the detail of said bible. Every writer or company has one and I'm curious what Dick's looks like, how it's changed over the years, or if he currently even has one right now. The creative team going into this arc doesn't feel like they know who he is. Knowing who the character is let's you know who he isn't. From there you can build a solid foundation of how Dick is different pre and post-headshot. Let's say you are doing a story about an amnesiac Superman, how do you go about it? What is the goal of the story? Is it just about him retaining those superhuman feats and continuing his life or does he become someone else entirely? If he does than what are you trying to do or say with the story? The main real difference between Dick and Ric (other than general outlook, design, thoughts on being a hero, etc) is that Ric does his heroing reduncantlantly or as almost a survival instinct. Is this story saying that Dick would've always been a heroic person if the situation was fight or flight or that without Bruce's training Dick would just be a normal guy not stepping into help?

This story feels more like Scott Lobdell transplanting himself in Ric's place. Enjoying the discovery of him becoming a superhero and commenting about how cool and awesome the life is while also complaining about it as if those complaints were actual development or depth. We are 4 issues into this story and the only meaningful things that happened was Scarecrow escaping Arkham (like always), Dick being a homeless criminal, and some cops finding his old hideout. There is very little reflection or introspection, no deep character work, no meaning about Nightwing's importance to Bludhaven other than some cops putting on old outfits. It's just a fill-in arc that was hyped to be something more than it really is. Deconstructionist stories like these I think have been so overdone in the modern age of comics, writers and readers seem more interested in how characters should act in relation to today's world or break a character down to their essentials and display what they think that means in relation to the world. These stories are so played out, they peaked with Watchmen and DKR back in the 80s. Batman just had the same amnesiac, who am I, what do I represent blah blah blah arc, Aquaman is going through the same thing, they did it poorly with Donna when they brought her back, it is so tiring. We keep going through the same cycle of stories, most are worse than the version before it.

So I completely misinterpreted what you were saying and we were talking about 2 different things. My bad. Glad that’s cleared up.

I do think there was a potentially interesting story to tell with the “Ric” story. It’s not the one we’re getting, but I’m sure there’s a version that is.

[byrd156]

So I completely misinterpreted what you were saying and we were talking about 2 different things. My bad. Glad that’s cleared up.

I do think there was a potentially interesting story to tell with the “Ric” story. It’s not the one we’re getting, but I’m sure there’s a version that is.

There's a good version of every story, it just doesn't always happen.

[Godlike13]

I think the last Titans episode had Dicks best fight scene yet. Overall I didn’t think it was the strongest episode, but that’s fight scene really stood out to me. With Dick all drugged out and clearly exhausted, but Rachel looks at him and he just has to. I just thought that was really good. And every episode we get closer and closer to Nightwing.

[Jackalope89]

And Rachel can "take it back". Wasn't expecting that twist, but it worked.

But man, poor Gar. Can't say I blame him for snapping like that.

[OWL45]

I think the last Titans episode had Dicks best fight scene yet. Overall I didn’t think it was the strongest episode, but that’s fight scene really stood out to me. With Dick all drugged out and clearly exhausted, but Rachel looks at him and he just has to. I just thought that was really good. And every episode we get closer and closer to Nightwing.

I’m loving Titans. The best portrayal of Dick Grayson in any medium to date.

[byrd156]

I’m loving Titans. The best portrayal of Dick Grayson in any medium to date.

Oomph. It's not bad but "the best portrayal"? I would put it above Chris O'Donnel and the current crop of animated movies but nowhere near Batman 66, BTAS, YJ, and TT.

[oasis1313]

I think the last Titans episode had Dicks best fight scene yet. Overall I didn’t think it was the strongest episode, but that’s fight scene really stood out to me. With Dick all drugged out and clearly exhausted, but Rachel looks at him and he just has to. I just thought that was really good. And every episode we get closer and closer to Nightwing.

I had to rerun it and watch it again. That fight scene knocked my socks off, even more than the episode a few weeks back when Dick's sheer skill mixed with (dare I say it?) brutality, frightened Hank Hall; you can begin to see how Dick (especially the "child of light" in him that first came--or got dragged--to Wayne Manor) has come to understand what Bruce has made out of him--and that he also understood that Bruce did the best he was capable of. I loved his scenes with Rachel, where she finds him and brings him back by reminding him that he promised never to leave her--just as a couple of weeks ago he was able to reach into her demonic self and bring her back with a bear hug. I want THESE guys (the two guys who wrote that fight scene) to be the new creative team on the Nightwing book (although if they're writing screenplays, they probably wouldn't take the pay cut DC would offer). Dick would be the best dad ever!

[byrd156]

I think the last Titans episode had Dicks best fight scene yet. Overall I didn’t think it was the strongest episode, but that’s fight scene really stood out to me. With Dick all drugged out and clearly exhausted, but Rachel looks at him and he just has to. I just thought that was really good. And every episode we get closer and closer to Nightwing.

I enjoy the ideas that the writers are trying to do but the execution has been so eh. I never liked the idea of such a so strained relationship with Bruce that either one of them starts to hate or obsess over the other but that's the shows direction so whatever. It just feels so CW, so over dramatic without the gravitas or meaning to it. The burning of the costume or him fighting himself were good ideas but just feel off to me. It's probably because we have never seen him and Bruce together or how Dick was when he a younger Robin. There's all this implied stuff, Dick's character as we have seen him has always been angry at everything with the exception of the circus and Dove. We never see how, why, or what changed Dick while he was with Bruce. Just that he got more brutal over time and got Zucco killed. (which I hated)

[oasis1313]

I enjoy the ideas that the writers are trying to do but the execution has been so eh. I never liked the idea of such a so strained relationship with Bruce that either one of them starts to hate or obsess over the other but that's the shows direction so whatever. It just feels so CW, so over dramatic without the gravitas or meaning to it. The burning of the costume or him fighting himself were good ideas but just feel off to me. It's probably because we have never seen him and Bruce together or how Dick was when he a younger Robin. There's all this implied stuff, Dick's character as we have seen him has always been angry at everything with the exception of the circus and Dove. We never see how, why, or what changed Dick while he was with Bruce. Just that he got more brutal over time and got Zucco killed. (which I hated)

They've been slowly dribbling out various reveals. I think it's already showing that things are thawing between Bruce and Dick--first he cuts off Dick's access to intelligence and safe houses--then restores them when Dick needs them. He didn't call the cops when Dick took off with his Porsche. Dick hasn't talked smack about Bruce, and Bruce made sure that Dick got the photos of his murdered friends,

[Onthetrapeze]

They've been slowly dribbling out various reveals. I think it's already showing that things are thawing between Bruce and Dick--first he cuts off Dick's access to intelligence and safe houses--then restores them when Dick needs them. He didn't call the cops when Dick took off with his Porsche. Dick hasn't talked smack about Bruce, and Bruce made sure that Dick got the photos of his murdered friends,

Yeah, a cold war between Bruce and Dick is unavoidable in every version of Nightwing's origin story(except Judas Contract) I am glad it shows that they still care about each other.

[byrd156]

They've been slowly dribbling out various reveals. I think it's already showing that things are thawing between Bruce and Dick--first he cuts off Dick's access to intelligence and safe houses--then restores them when Dick needs them. He didn't call the cops when Dick took off with his Porsche. Dick hasn't talked smack about Bruce, and Bruce made sure that Dick got the photos of his murdered friends,

I don't think that's really enough, if we had at-least one scene I would agree with you.

[WonderNight]

I think the last Titans episode had Dicks best fight scene yet. Overall I didn’t think it was the strongest episode, but that’s fight scene really stood out to me. With Dick all drugged out and clearly exhausted, but Rachel looks at him and he just has to. I just thought that was really good. And every episode we get closer and closer to Nightwing.

yeah dick looks great when he doesn't have to job for batman.

[yohyoi]

I'm loving Titans tv. Best thing DC put out this year. But its' basically the Dick Grayson show of my dreams. Which is why I love it so much. Robin will always be a sidekick and Batman's help. Dick does not need that. He is more than Batman. And Titans are giving it. A Robin who grew up and got out of the damn Batman's shadow. No more bowing to the footsteps of BatGod.

[yohyoi]

yeah dick looks great when he doesn't have to job for batman.

Dick can also develop as a character instead of being props to Bruce's never ending drama. Dick in the show has struggles and complexities no portrayal of him has ever done. He isn't another Robin caricature with given personality traits to differ himself from Batman and other Robins. Dick is actually a human with relatable good and bad parts. This is the Dick Grayson who can stand outside Batman.

It's time to grow up. Kill Robin and let Nightwing be born.